The Political Discussion Thread

[Col.Foley]

We may have different definitions of things, but I see this as a promotion of anti-government/anti-obama rallies. As a credible news network you do not promote or support these things, you just report them. Otherwise you are not a credible news channel.

And they have had people who have disagreed with the tea party and trashed the tea party. It is a network of different and various individuals and opinions. It is a network that shares the facts and then discusses the facts. The day that becomes wrong is the day....that we lose our ability to use our First Amendment Rights.

A recent study found Fox viewers significantly more misinformed than those of MSNBC and other stations. It's not a bunch of kids whining about the other side, there's evidence to back this up.

Calm yourself down and get off your own soapbox before you go screaming at others to do the same.

A recent study that has been massively discredited, owned, ripped to shreds, and I think even the people behind the study has admitted that it was a bunch of hooey and did not actually mean anything.

Also you are talking about Fox News viewers *of which you claim to be one* and we have see from this thread that the lies the misconceptions and the weird and strange facts that people can get from *watching* something. Frankly it is not *Fox News's fault* Nor Beck's nor Hannity's, and nor O'Reilly's how selective people's memories are and what they chose to believe. This is for a brief moment assuming that the study is correct.

All these people whinging about Fox News, really grow the f**k up. You think the Left is some shining beacon of light and good that does nothing wrong? Piss off. Fox is hardly the only unbiased news channel out there, look at MSNBC and it's continuing desire to be the most Left Wing News channel it could possibly be. If Keith Olberdouchebag and his chums there sucked up to Obama any more they'd be fellating him.

All news is bias in some form, it is impossible to entirely remove remove it. Combine that with the media's appetite for hyperbole and you have a heady concoction. In the UK we have far better media, yet it would be utterly foolish to say there is no bias, there's tons. The BBC may strive to be unbiased in its reporting, yet every time a news story on the countryside starts, the fact that it is run by a bunch of city types from Islington shines though.

No Faux News hardly has any credibility as a News channel. However it is not some isolated evil Conservative plot to distort the News, it is simply a systematic example of the bias and hyperbole that the American news media and indeed new media across the world suffers from. You can find Right Wing biased new media, Left Wing bias new media and even "death to America, Jihad!", Islamic fundamentalist new media, otherwise known as Al Jazeera.

To attack Fox News and other Conservative outlets only ignores the problem as a whole with the media, and will get nowhere. You can't claim the moral high ground when both sides are at it constantly.

I would tone down the rhetoric a bit and the name calling.

You are right that all sides do it to, you are wrong that it is actually a problem...in and of itself. It has been turned into it though because you do have ideologeous at there that just think in terms of their ideology, and blame the other guys for everything as a group.

Which to call Fox News a 'right biased news network' is toatally unjustified and toatally illigitamate. It is a statement of a solution that is searching, groping for a problem. I know better. I know that liberals and progressives get a shot to explain their viewpoints and their ideology on Fox, and I know that is up to us, oh humble and loyal viewer, to decide who is right, who is wrong, and to assimilate the information and the facts and to act accordingly.

And this is the same for MSNBC, by the way, they are not a left biased news network...despite Chris Mathews saying we have a 'left' and a 'center left' viewpoint, I again know better. He is just a terrible ambassador for the network and made a really stupid point. Because I know, and have seen Rand Paul and tea partiers on MSNBC. Its just that I do not like the individuals and the way they present themselves. But that is a choice I make.

Right, one survey and it's gospel? Apparently the concept of bias in a survey, or anomalous results, or the fact that sample groups cannot account for an entire group with 100% accuracy seemed to have slipped by you. Further the survey was published in April 2007, that's nearly 4 years ago, so it's not that recent, and in terms of Politics that's really a long time. Since 2007 the Political landscape of America has changed drastically. And interestingly enough said same survey found that Republican and Democrat were equally represent in the most knowledgeable category.

And I'm not on a soap box dear chap. Just an exasperated outside observer who's fed up with seeing idiots who are so blinded by their own ideology, that that they can't see their own hypocrisy. America is sick and dying, the world is passing it by. China and India are the new dogs, Europe, Africa, Arabic and Persian Gulf countries look to them increasingly, and the U.S population is too busy blaming each other for whatever problem to notice. The fact is the decline of America rests on all sides, a successful democratic country requires a strong government backed by the people along with a successful political opposition to counter it. America has neither, it has a President who is seen as weak and unreliable overseas, and is increasingly disliked and unsuccessful at home. The opposition is unable to come with a Presidential candidate who could truly challenge Obama, a damning fact considering his unpopularity. American support for politicians is at a all time low, many are viewed with outright hostility and suspicion, a not unreasonable behaviour considering their behaviour. America has a war on its doorstep now larger than both Afghanistan and Iraq, a situation it refuses to address but simply wants to ignore, the country is becoming more racially and geographically divided again, all the while the economy fails and the media fuels the fire by stirring the pot.

Traditional Empire building is now gone, it began to disappear at the end of the 19th century, nevertheless the last 60 years the "American Empire" has flourished, it may not have held territory, but it was the worlds super power, it held dominance, culturally, economically and military. Now I'm a Brit, I'd much prefer if we were still the Worlds super power, we did it, and could still do it a lot better, but I also know my history, no Empire lasts forever, and Britain fell from power because of that. For me America represents a good alternative, it's a western Democratic country, there might be lots wrong with it even at the best of times, but it's better than any alternative. Nevertheless the American Empire will fall, but it is doing so much faster than it should, and it will leave behind a void in power, that no country is ready yet to fill, even nations like India which are almost certainly to be one of the next super powers simply aren't developed enough yet. America needs to survive because Pax Americana is needed by the world because at the moment there is no replacement ready yet and I don't fancy the world being at China's mercy.

But at the moment America is simply being childish. The recent Tucson shootings show the problem with America, the sickness in its culture and it's politics. Not that a nut would target a prominent local figure and go on a rampage, that is an unfortunate part of life, thing like that happen, but what is sick is that following this rather than the nation pulling together in the face of tragedy, it erupted in an orgy of blame, the Left Wing were to blame, the Right Wing were to blame, Beck, Rush and Palin were to blame, Keith Olberman was to blame, guns were to blame, computer games were to blame. The fact is America is now adverse to the idea of personnel responsibility, it's easier to blame the opposing political side than look at the bigger picture of what's wrong with America.

Ignoring the whole empire debate for a second.....

You do make several excellent points where large parts of America society are refusing to look at Personal Responsibility. And blame everything else on the sun, and even some people on the right...or I guess they were on the right...(first time I heard this specific person speak so I do not know what her politics are)...but the majority of the right, that I have listened, have refused to blame this incidet on anyone but the gunman. Not on Olbermann, or Piven, or Mathews or MSNBC

To me Fox is just as biased and opinionated as the rest. It just gets the heat because while the others are left biased Fox is right biased. I wonder what it would be like to have unbiased journalism?

Probably the land with perfect gooey warm whiteness and pearly gates.

And the people on Fox News should be biased, they should be opinionated, it is human. The goal of Fox and any news network is to get over their bias and present the truth and their world view and their opinions how they see and think best. And how do they help achieve this? By having a vibrant discussion of literally all sides of the political spectrum that duke it out and try and debate and reach some kind of consensus and talk to eachother and expose the world to their views.

Again as I have pointed out, Fox news cannot do anything, it is a corporation, but the people on Fox News do. And their are some that are really good at it, and some that are really bad at it.

[Rickington]

To me Fox is just as biased and opinionated as the rest. It just gets the heat because while the others are left biased Fox is right biased. I wonder what it would be like to have unbiased journalism?

Indeed. Almost all news sources (especially domestic) are a bit biased politically. I mean, CNN is very liberal... and a bit exaggerative in their style of presentation (especially in some of the headlines they use on their website)...

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

I don't consider Fox News to be a news channel, not really. When you start promoting anti government rallies you can no longer claim to be a news station (with a conservative bias), you have become an opposition political force.

FOX is simply the propaganda arm for the right wing; they stopped being a news organization ages ago

To me Fox is just as biased and opinionated as the rest. It just gets the heat because while the others are left biased Fox is right biased. I wonder what it would be like to have unbiased journalism?

Hard to find - not only because of the lack of "real journalists" but also because of the concentration of the mainstream media in fewer and fewer hands, most of whom have a political agenda make a barrier between the story that gets written and the story that gets seen. Best advice is read everything you can get your hands on, preferably from a wide variety of sources, and don't believe anything you see, not a 100%. My personal motto for years has been "question everything" for just this reason

[Rickington]

I just read two articles that may completely 'change the game' of power-generation (i.e. electricity), and as a side-effect, if successful, could also end our need for petroleum/coal as an electrical power source.

http://www.newenergyandfuel.com/2011...mercial-ready/
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=360

While I am a little skeptical about this news, I hold it in high hopes because there is some evidence to support it and there have been contracts for commercial use signed by US and European-based contractors (i.e. power companies).

[mad_gater]

I just read two articles that may completely 'change the game' of power-generation (i.e. electricity), and as a side-effect, if successful, could also end our need for petroleum/coal as an electrical power source.

http://www.newenergyandfuel.com/2011...mercial-ready/
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=360

While I am a little skeptical about this news, I hold it in high hopes because there is some evidence to support it and there have been contracts for commercial use signed by US and European-based contractors (i.e. power companies).

oy.....my head.....*head explodes from all the technobabble in those articles*.....

sounds like something that could be an economically viable and environmentally friendly alternative to things like coal though...

[jmoz]

I don't know, associated press and Reuters are pretty good at just reporting things, not really offering opinions. Think they might have sections though devoted to opinions. And fox is very right wing opinionated.

[Rickington]

oy.....my head.....*head explodes from all the technobabble in those articles*.....

sounds like something that could be an economically viable and environmentally friendly alternative to things like coal though...

Indeed it is. I mean, this has the potential to be a lot cheaper than coal/petroleum because it is estimated that it would cost less than 1¢/kWh, while right now, on average, the cost to generate 1 kWh of electricity is closer to 10¢/kWh. An option that is cheaper by a factor of ten... I'll take it!

[mad_gater]

Indeed it is. I mean, this has the potential to be a lot cheaper than coal/petroleum because it is estimated that it would cost less than 1¢/kWh, while right now, on average, the cost to generate 1 kWh of electricity is closer to 10¢/kWh. An option that is cheaper by a factor of ten... I'll take it!

indeed....I got no problem "going green" if there's a cost-effective way to do it

[Col.Foley]

Indeed. Almost all news sources (especially domestic) are a bit biased politically. I mean, CNN is very liberal... and a bit exaggerative in their style of presentation (especially in some of the headlines they use on their website)...

This provides me the perfect opprotunity to go back to a previous point:

You are talking about headlines, which is meant to grab attention and to get you to read the story. The same thing as ina good book. For example you might get a headline that says 'Catholic priest says that Obama is eating babies and consorting the devil' And then you go to read the story and just come to find out that someone is jsut accusing Obama of these things, has those opinions, or was saying that to prove a metaphorical point about abortion. But yet if you just read the headlines, like you and S...dude...there....sorry me lazy...you can draw any number of conclusions about the content of the article, when the article could not have anything of that content. believe me I have been there.

FOX is simply the propaganda arm for the right wing; they stopped being a news organization ages ago

Hard to find - not only because of the lack of "real journalists" but also because of the concentration of the mainstream media in fewer and fewer hands, most of whom have a political agenda make a barrier between the story that gets written and the story that gets seen. Best advice is read everything you can get your hands on, preferably from a wide variety of sources, and don't believe anything you see, not a 100%. My personal motto for years has been "question everything" for just this reason

Repeat a lie often enough and then it will be accepted as truth.

Though mind you there is not a very much repeating of that lie in any serious circles in our Government. Not anymore, they have already done their damage. They have just said it first and then all the 'liberal' and statist friends have gotten together and said 'hey did you know that Fox News is a propoganda arm of the Right Wing.' 'I know I know, that is so horrible man, the Right Wing is so evil and it is toatally a big bummer to be biased.' 'I know dude...hey I think I am going to go tell Jessica man.' 'good idea.'

When the notion that Fox News is a Right Wing propoganda arm has no or microscopically thin bearing in fact. Its just gotten repeated over and over again within all their circles so suddenly walla the truth and the perception is there. When if anyone actually thought, and actually looked at the facts, and actually thought in individual and not collectovist terms then you can quite easily reach the conclusion that, there is no bearing in fact that Fox News is anything other then a News organization that does have diverse opinions on its shows.

Which saying Fox News is a propaganda arm of the GOP is as ridiculous as saying that CNN or MSNBC is the propaganda arm of the Democrats.

Oh and what do you know you agree with Glenn Beck.

I just read two articles that may completely 'change the game' of power-generation (i.e. electricity), and as a side-effect, if successful, could also end our need for petroleum/coal as an electrical power source.

http://www.newenergyandfuel.com/2011...mercial-ready/
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=360

While I am a little skeptical about this news, I hold it in high hopes because there is some evidence to support it and there have been contracts for commercial use signed by US and European-based contractors (i.e. power companies).

Interesting..very interesting.

I don't know, associated press and Reuters are pretty good at just reporting things, not really offering opinions. Think they might have sections though devoted to opinions. And fox is very right wing opinionated.

If you repeat a lie often enough it is going to be fact.

Oh and Fox has an opinion too? Wow.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

Sadly, I think that anything that moves away from oil - with all that comes with that from big oil companies to occupations - is going to have a very hard row to hoe, but with Peak Oil drawing ever closer, it's good that options are getting the press they deserve

[Col.Foley]

Sadly, I think that anything that moves away from oil - with all that comes with that from big oil companies to occupations - is going to have a very hard row to hoe, but with Peak Oil drawing ever closer, it's good that options are getting the press they deserve

Peak Oil is still centuries in the future we have no actual idea of how much oil is down there.

And it is going to be so impossible to get off of oil because so many products are oil based, and that Government has done a large and good job of creating a dependance on Oil. And by doing the usual propping up of Oil companies and the things of that nature. And I do not think our current Government is going to go for the whole cheap and efficient thing, it does not match their political objectives.

[Rickington]

Peak Oil is still centuries in the future we have no actual idea of how much oil is down there.

And it is going to be so impossible to get off of oil because so many products are oil based, and that Government has done a large and good job of creating a dependance on Oil. And by doing the usual propping up of Oil companies and the things of that nature. And I do not think our current Government is going to go for the whole cheap and efficient thing, it does not match their political objectives.

I must point out that this 'device' is still in the theoretical stages, so skepticism is necessary when evaluating it (and the articles that I posted earlier!).

[mad_gater]

Peak Oil is still centuries in the future we have no actual idea of how much oil is down there.

And it is going to be so impossible to get off of oil because so many products are oil based, and that Government has done a large and good job of creating a dependance on Oil. And by doing the usual propping up of Oil companies and the things of that nature. And I do not think our current Government is going to go for the whole cheap and efficient thing, it does not match their political objectives.

which is why one of my blogs dealt with using algae as a natural source of oil.......one use could be to make plastics out of that instead of out of petroleum...using a natural source like algae to make plastics could be less risky healthwise too....if only we were doing this while my dad was working in plastics.....then he might not have been exposed to benzene and gotten cancer that he died from later down the road....

[Col.Foley]

I must point out that this 'device' is still in the theoretical stages, so skepticism is necessary when evaluating it (and the articles that I posted earlier!).

Yeah I know I remain very skeptical. Not in the technology itself mind you, but the will power, the political will, and the current technical ability for humanity to utilize it. I like the word 'commercial' though. And I think this type of technology could very easily be an alternative for our current power generating technologies, but nto an out and out replacement.

[Col.Foley]

which is why one of my blogs dealt with using algae as a natural source of oil.......one use could be to make plastics out of that instead of out of petroleum...using a natural source like algae to make plastics could be less risky healthwise too....if only we were doing this while my dad was working in plastics.....then he might not have been exposed to benzene and gotten cancer that he died from later down the road....

Well then make that your crusade.