The Political Discussion Thread

[jelgate]

My grandfather used to say the same about typewriters

[Gatefan1976]

We seemed to do ok with paper or simple mechanical voting machines for a number of years before the advent of affordable computers.

Dude, they started them back in the 19th century!!
Your population had not even cracked the 100m mark.

Also, No presidential candidate that I know of has -EVER- called the fairness of the system into question in the way trump has.
You keep dancing, but the simple fact is, Trump opened the door, and now you have to deal with it.

[garhkal]

We're having insane wildfires here in Israel, mainly due to the new Palestinian form of terrorism - starting forest fires. The current fire began at some 200 different ignition points and because of the warm dry weather it spread through much of northern Israel. 75 000 people were evacuated from their homes in Haifa and the small towns in the Galilee - largest civilian evacuation in the country's history. Another fire broke out tonight near Jerusalem, set off by a Molotov cocktail. Several Arab arsonists were arrested so far, some of them caught on video.

There's quite a bit of celebration going on in Arab-language Facebook and Twitter under hashtag #Israelburns. To quote Naftali Bennett, only those to whom this land does not belong can conceive of torching it. Or celebrating as it burns.

We got some much-needed help from firefighters from Greece, Turkey, Ukraine and Russia. The US sent its largest firefighting supertanker plane which has just landed in Israel. Airbnb is helping the people who lost their homes get hosted for free in Airbnb-listed places.

I was watching news about that, and wondering... HOW do these people expect other countries to keep siding WITH the palestinians, when they do **** like this??

Falcon asked about this earlier, hope you catch the "people" responsible. Arsonists are one of those few other types of criminal that make my short list for people who don't deserve a second chance.

They certainly make my list of never giving a 2nd chance to as well..

[Gatefan1976]

They certainly make my list of never giving a 2nd chance to as well..

I suspect you and I have different outcomes in mind when it comes to that.

[Womble]

Re: forest fires -- I did, and thanks for the update. I saw the Palestinian Authority send 4 firefighting crews which you didn't mention -- unlike the IsraelBurns hashtag, which I haven't seen, I did see that mentioned on twitter. At least, not all of them are celebrating.

Eight crews actually. Fire does not distinguish between Jews and Arabs.

As for #Israelburns, just search it.

https://twitter.com/hashtag/Israelburns?src=hash

[Falcon Horus]

What is wrong with the use of pen and paper ballots?

Nothing.
Like there's nothing wrong voting electronically.

Both systems have their flaws and can be tampered with.

I was watching news about that, and wondering... HOW do these people expect other countries to keep siding WITH the palestinians, when they do **** like this??

Like not all Israeleans, not all Palestinians are bad.

But like many, you too are unable to make that distinctions.

Eight crews actually. Fire does not distinguish between Jews and Arabs.

At least, fire is fair and all about equality when it comes to raging around.

As for #Israelburns, just search it.
https://twitter.com/hashtag/Israelburns?src=hash

Why would I want to search it?
It's like TrumpForPresident -- not something I agree with.

[Coco Pops]

I remember the Al Gore whingefest.

But still someone opened the door about this instead of shutting up.... So let's see what happens..

[Annoyed]

Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed
We seemed to do ok with paper or simple mechanical voting machines for a number of years before the advent of affordable computers.

Dude, they started them back in the 19th century!!
Your population had not even cracked the 100m mark.

Also, No presidential candidate that I know of has -EVER- called the fairness of the system into question in the way trump has.
You keep dancing, but the simple fact is, Trump opened the door, and now you have to deal with it.

You never heard of Al Gore and his whinefest in 2000? Need I remind you that that was the event which started the switch to these electronic voting machines as a result of some morons in Florida that were too stupid to operate a paper ballot?

As far as the argument of "Dude, they started them back in the 19th century!!", who cares how old the technology is? If it's still the best available, then that is what should be used. I have a wireless network set up in my home for my smart phone & tablet. But all of my home theater equipment, computers (including laptops!) printers and such use WIRED connections. Wired is simply better than wireless, even though wireless is newer.

Consider that everything from government computers containing personal employee information ( https://www.opm.gov/cybersecurity/cy...ity-incidents/ ) to security cameras, thermostats and god knows what else people connect to the internet these days ( https://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/10/...ternet-outage/ ) has been hacked.

We are talking about voting here. Vote counts are a very high value target, much more valuable than simply crashing DNS servers with thermostats and toasters.

The primary goal must be the integrity of the data. and there is no way that anything computerized is as secure as old-school mechanical machines and paper ballots are. The recent history of cybersecurity ought to make that clear. From a data integrity standpoint, there is no comparison. The paper/mechanical can't be hacked, and the electronics can. Game over. Yes, it's not as convenient, but convenience isn't the goal here, is it?

And our population hasn't grown so much since the 90's and 2000 that So you can throw the argument about population size making it impossible right out the window right along with the other.

[Gatefan1976]

You never heard of Al Gore and his whinefest in 2000? Need I remind you that that was the event which started the switch to these electronic voting machines as a result of some morons in Florida that were too stupid to operate a paper ballot?

Oh please, go back and actually read what happened, rather than what the revisionist history Team Trump was peddling when he refused to say he would accept the results.

As far as the argument of "Dude, they started them back in the 19th century!!", who cares how old the technology is? If it's still the best available, then that is what should be used. I have a wireless network set up in my home for my smart phone & tablet. But all of my home theater equipment, computers (including laptops!) printers and such use WIRED connections. Wired is simply better than wireless, even though wireless is newer.

Whew, good thing that wasn't an argument then, I'd be worried.

Consider that everything from government computers containing personal employee information ( https://www.opm.gov/cybersecurity/cy...ity-incidents/ ) to security cameras, thermostats and god knows what else people connect to the internet these days ( https://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/10/...ternet-outage/ ) has been hacked.

Yeah..........

We are talking about voting here. Vote counts are a very high value target, much more valuable than simply crashing DNS servers with thermostats and toasters.

They really are not that "high value", half of you don't even bother to use it.

The primary goal must be the integrity of the data. and there is no way that anything computerized is as secure as old-school mechanical machines and paper ballots are. The recent history of cybersecurity ought to make that clear. From a data integrity standpoint, there is no comparison. The paper/mechanical can't be hacked, and the electronics can. Game over. Yes, it's not as convenient, but convenience isn't the goal here, is it?

Pen and paper is even more secure.

And our population hasn't grown so much since the 90's and 2000 that So you can throw the argument about population size making it impossible right out the window right along with the other.

That was directed to Coco.

[Womble]

Israel is getting a surprising amount of help with the fires. Firefighting helicopters from Egypt, fire trucks and crews from Jordan, fire plane from Azerbaijan, firefighter units from Italy, Croatia, Turkey. The USA sent 50 firemen and the world's largest tanker plane that's just began dumping water on the fires, 20 000 gallons at a time. Pretty awesome.

In non-Israeli news, Fidel Castro died.

[Annoyed]

Pen and paper is even more secure.

I'm fine with pen & paper. Simply keep a chain of custody consisting of representatives from both parties, as well as modern video surveillance to keep everybody honest.

I just don't trust the electronic felgercarb for something as important as voting.

How do we know that this delayed recount that we are seeing wasn't delayed until after the greens had successfully had someone hack the records? How do we know that the near 3 week delay wasn't to give someone time to gain access to the data?

I'm just using that as an example, you can turn it around if you wish. Suppose Hillary had won, and Trump asked for a recall almost 3 weeks down the road. Would you be confident that the same circumstances didn't apply?

And why is it the Green party filing the request? Their candidate has 0 chance of winning, either the state of the election. Why isn't the Democratic party asking for the recount directly?

[SGalisa]

Has anyone seen this? Interesting.

So no one is unhappy if voting machines can be hacked..... I guess not if your side wins.

https://jillstein.nationbuilder.com/recount

I'm fine with pen & paper. Simply keep a chain of custody consisting of representatives from both parties, as well as modern video surveillance to keep everybody honest.

I just don't trust the electronic felgercarb for something as important as voting.
. . .
And why is it the Green party filing the request? Their candidate has 0 chance of winning, either the state of the election. Why isn't the Democratic party asking for the recount directly?

Well, it won't do Jill Stein any good. She wasn't anywhere near the top three votes chosen tier. One comment said she's in the under 10% range--closer to 1%. So, she's obviously doing this to help Hillary Clinton out instead (as in offsetting the electorial college to tilt into Hillary's favor instead of Trump).

I read earlier from other discussion comments coming in from around the world that Soros most likely has his hand in this action as well. It was also suggested about someone on teamTrump to find out where the monetary finances came from that helped push to pay for the lawyer fees--tho, it's probably too late for that now, if the data gets altered as coming in from false locations. (comments were in several websites.. =)

Also, noted of course was that the only accurate counting system that happened in real time, during the actual elections, was the computer program that the NY Times was using, because it had NO humans controlling the computations. All it did was take the total tallies per state/electorial vote and add them up, and then provide a percentage of who had the greater chance of winning.

China says thank you to Trump:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-2...mp-tpp/8056086
. . .
At the end of the day China hopes to cleave ASEAN from America's grasp and make the United States strategic pivot back into Asia unworkable.

They are counting on Donald Trump as president advocating a more isolationist stance.

Well won't *that* be a bummer to China if Hillary Clinton wins via the recounted electorial vote, instead.

And Trump better postpone any "victory tours" until after January 20, 2017, when the election process is over and transference of authoritative power is complete.

Also, another tidbit I came across just yesterday was a you-tube video from Anonymous. They were warning Trump not to get too overconfident, because Anonymous would turn the tables over against Trump, and then WWIII would be imminent. With Hillary in charge, that is a very likely scenario, since she bragged about being *trigger happy* against Russia. Think not.. let this all play out, and then if it happens, USA goes down, so will the rest of the world from the cross-fire and chaos resulting thereof.

Anonymous was also warning that if Trump did not fulfill his *promise* of trying to find ways to "protect the children" and "feed the USA" so that the USA could eventually help feed and help protect the rest of the world, that the proverbial plug would be pulled on his time in "presidential" office. Something of those words between the other warnings about WWIII, which kept popping up in the corner of the video, like some sort of news feed.

What was disturbing about that video/news even more was the BBC publishing a simulation scenario of a (BBC) "Live Breaking News, Nuclear Weapons Exchange Between Russia and NATO (fiction)".

(video youtube;bQ25RMezeLU (not linked here))
"Live Breaking News, Nuclear Weapons Exchange Between Russia and NATO (fiction)"
BBC, Published on Nov 25, 2016 (approx. 55 minutes long!)

Serious incident between NATO and Russian forces in the Baltic region reported, but a more larger strategic confrontation is under way. Russian invasion of Estonia and Latvia is being reported with significant Russian troops movements towards western Europe.

Nothing like having a pleasant "Happy Thanksgiving" weekend.. without having a coronary or stroke in the process.

[Annoyed]

Well, it won't do Jill Stein any good. She wasn't anywhere near the top three votes chosen tier. One comment said she's in the under 10% range--closer to 1%. So, she's obviously doing this to help Hillary Clinton out instead (as in offsetting the electorial college to tilt into Hillary's favor instead of Trump).

I read earlier from other discussion comments coming in from around the world that Soros most likely has his hand in this action as well. It was also suggested about someone on teamTrump to find out where the monetary finances came from that helped push to pay for the lawyer fees--tho, it's probably too late for that now, if the data gets altered as coming in from false locations. (comments were in several websites.. =)

Also, noted of course was that the only accurate counting system that happened in real time, during the actual elections, was the computer program that the NY Times was using, because it had NO humans controlling the computations. All it did was take the total tallies per state/electorial vote and add them up, and then provide a percentage of who had the greater chance of winning.

Well won't *that* be a bummer to China if Hillary Clinton wins via the recounted electorial vote, instead.

And Trump better postpone any "victory tours" until after January 20, 2017, when the election process is over and transference of authoritative power is complete.

Oh, I'll be suspicious as hell of any at this late date that shows Clinton winning. Almost 3 weeks after the fact?

And I wonder if Clinton's officially conceding the race the morning after the election has any legal bearing.

Trump ought to fight any change in outcome tooth and nail.

But even if this does not change the outcome, and the effort to turn electors fails (both longshots) I would definitely expect the Democrats or their allies to continue such chicanery even AFTER 1/20.

They have an "entitled" mentality, they think they are entitled to have their way, regardless.

[SoulReaver]

Oh, I'll be suspicious as hell of any at this late date that shows Clinton winning. Almost 3 weeks after the fact?

And I wonder if Clinton's officially conceding the race the morning after the election has any legal bearing.

Trump ought to fight any change in outcome tooth and nail.

But even if this does not change the outcome, and the effort to turn electors fails (both longshots) I would definitely expect the Democrats or their allies to continue such chicanery even AFTER 1/20.

They have an "entitled" mentality, they think they are entitled to have their way, regardless.

Trump said it was rigged
therefore it was rigged, QED

learn to accept responsibility

[garhkal]

I suspect you and I have different outcomes in mind when it comes to that.

Let me guess, you favor 'burning them up in their own arson work'?

Israel is getting a surprising amount of help with the fires. Firefighting helicopters from Egypt, fire trucks and crews from Jordan, fire plane from Azerbaijan, firefighter units from Italy, Croatia, Turkey. The USA sent 50 firemen and the world's largest tanker plane that's just began dumping water on the fires, 20 000 gallons at a time. Pretty awesome.

In non-Israeli news, Fidel Castro died.

What gets me, is we always seem to see these foreign countries get all sorts of aid, and help right when they have these issues, btu when the US has them (Such as the NUMEROUS forest fires we have had this year alone), we rarely if ever get any help, other than maybe a kind word or two from any other country..

Anonymous was also warning that if Trump did not fulfill his *promise* of trying to find ways to "protect the children" and "feed the USA" so that the USA could eventually help feed and help protect the rest of the world, that the proverbial plug would be pulled on his time in "presidential" office. Something of those words between the other warnings about WWIII, which kept popping up in the corner of the video, like some sort of news feed.

Sounds almost like they are blackmailing him (or attempting to).


PS to the mods. Now this thread has hit 1001 pages, shouldn't we start a fresh new one?