The Political Discussion Thread

[Gatefan1976]

wait you didn't know FBI were cops?

Oh, I know what they are, and also what they are not.

[Gatefan1976]

FBI, SS (That's Secret Service), ATF, ICE, DEA, and USMS are law enforcement agencies of the US government. But when you're in Texas, you better watch your back or the Rangers will get ya.

*Unleashes the mounties on Tood*

[SGalisa]

What did I twist?
I quoted you, directly. I did not chop or change, I did not interrupt, I let the whole paragraph stand.

True, yes -- you did quote me exactly. However, that is *not* what I was referring to. I was referring to your comprehension of what I wrote as being twisted in its interpretation, thereof.

I wrote--

Inadvertently, I used to vote pro-Dem, because what sounded like a good idea on paper, only worked until more TAXES were added in to pay for those items..! Our ballots would have (and still do) have these neat ideas for suggesting to allocate so much money to fund some new project.. I didn't know at that time, it meant taking MORE out of my paycheck to do all that extra FUNDing.

And then you replied with--

So, you just admitted you don't know what you were voting for?

No.. I KNEW what proposed ideas and goals were being voted on and for, but I didn't know that the funding meant taking more money out of our paychecks in the form of paying out "Property TAXES". This is a separate TAX from income and consumer's shopping taxes. But obviously, you already knew that.

Sadly, most of us early aged voters in the USA did not or do NOT know that.. that is why our system of getting things done is so messed up.. The fault is either in the education system or learning process of the individual.

Where did you think the money would come from?
. . .
How is this a mystery?

Hello?? Government funding.. money that was already sitting in storage--waiting to be used, gets redirected to another part of the kitty pool.. that's where. However, that is NOT always the way it works--only if a surplus of funding being already in existence--would such a method work.

Maybe it would help you to understand that most USA folks do NOT *know* these pesking details on where the money from various gov't agencies actually comes from. My parents never explained it.. and if any teachers in school did explain it, most of us students weren't paying attention for whatever the reason. If it was taught in school, I probably zoned out into daydreaming, because I don't recall the subject being discussed in any length of detail.

Plus, since I paid rent fees for an apartment for most of my married life, I never dealt with itemized "property taxes" on paper. The TAX was included in our rent fee, so we NEVER saw it being taken out, as our rent fee was a sum total amount, and not itemized on how much money went to pay for what. Now does that make sense, why it remained a mystery to me for several of my early voting years..?

I *know* I'm not the only person who sees our taxes this way, because there are a lot of folks living off the welfare system who probably think the same way.. No, the money isn't pooled from an existing fund, it comes out of our paycheck rumps additionally to everything else that we are already paying into or for.


Now, on to the magnificent OWG (One-world gov't, etc.)

I just meant a one world government Tood, not the "actual" NWO.
BUT................
As you pointed that out, The Illuminati is connected to the NWO, and if the NWO is a Jewish conspiracy,(which I don't believe) and Christianity came from Judaism, it's actually the Jews and the Christians who want the NWO!! ...

Never heard that "Christians" (born-again type) want the NWO.. They just want Jesus to come back and straighten out the mess this world is going to leave in the turmoil of things still yet to come.

The biggest fear I hear from people who are worried about a one world government is generally rooted in two issues, 1: A loss of nationalism, or 2: loss of resources to other countries...

Again, if the complaints are coming from "Christians" who have read and *understand* what the book of Revelation states, their biggest fear is seeing the world being controlled by the "AntiChrist" -- or person who causes everyone to not be able to buy or sell without having "the mark" on their hand or forehead, and worshiping the "beast" -- whatever that is.

...
It -could- be like that if every member government agreed to it, but I doubt even just a "one world" coalition of western nations would agree to such a system. I would imagine that it would be something akin to say, the federal police. Local matters are handled locally, the feds are called in for crimes that are not local or cross state lines. Something like Interpol perhaps?

On the surface, it sounds like you're trusting too much in current *regional* turf zones and agencies on why such a system might not be created. Otherwise, I would think that one major executive (administration) level would exist at the top tier level, with subdivisions broken down at various other levels, so that each would have to report to the level (or supervising tier) above it. Sort of like now with districts reporting to their county and state, state to country (federal) and then federal to the administrative international level. It's possible to create, but would require massive cooperation between the entire populations of this planet.

Let me just add that for several years now, various agencies within our Federal (USA) laws and regulations have been revising their rules to either be incorporated by reference or noted word for word, according to the international law book, as such a ruling is written/codified per the United Nations law code book. Our world is apparently a lot closer to becoming united by the same Law codes than the general populations of people might realize.

[Gatefan1976]

True, yes -- you did quote me exactly. However, that is *not* what I was referring to. I was referring to your comprehension of what I wrote as being twisted in its interpretation, thereof.

I wrote--


And then you replied with--

Correct
Now, let me not change your words, merely bold some of them, in their context and then tell me what I mis-interpreted, ok.

No.. I KNEW what proposed ideas and goals were being voted on and for, but I didn't know that the funding meant taking more money out of our paychecks in the form of paying out "Property TAXES". This is a separate TAX from income and consumer's shopping taxes. But obviously, you already knew that.

Sadly, most of us early aged voters in the USA did not or do NOT know that.. that is why our system of getting things done is so messed up.. The fault is either in the education system or learning process of the individual.

No changes, just pointing out where you say you did not know what you were voting on.
So, tell you what, rather than me "taking you out of context", explain what your context actually is and we can drop this.

Hello?? Government funding.. money that was already sitting in storage--waiting to be used, gets redirected to another part of the kitty pool.. that's where. However, that is NOT always the way it works--only if a surplus of funding being already in existence--would such a method work.

Right, but WHERE does that funding come from?
Weather you have a surplus or not is not relevant SG, the surplus has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere is the tax payer!!

Maybe it would help you to understand that most USA folks do NOT *know* these pesking details on where the money from various gov't agencies actually comes from. My parents never explained it.. and if any teachers in school did explain it, most of us students weren't paying attention for whatever the reason. If it was taught in school, I probably zoned out into daydreaming, because I don't recall the subject being discussed in any length of detail.

So, in defence of the charge of not knowing what you were voting for, you point to people in the US not knowing??
Can you see WHY I said what I did yet?
Look, I get that people don't know this stuff because it is not taught in schools for the most part, I understand that, and it really is no different here. In fact, I would say it is worse here because we don't have, and to my knowledge have never had a course like Civics that you folks have (had?) in the US. You only got taught this stuff in it's most basic form in high school if you did legal studies. The only "advantage" we have is *because* we all have to vote, we tend to learn stuff despite ourselves.

Having said that, if you are gonna discuss these things in a forum, does it not behove you to at least -try- to educate yourself? You have the wealth of knowledge of the internet at your fingertips.

Plus, since I paid rent fees for an apartment for most of my married life, I never dealt with itemized "property taxes" on paper. The TAX was included in our rent fee, so we NEVER saw it being taken out, as our rent fee was a sum total amount, and not itemized on how much money went to pay for what. Now does that make sense, why it remained a mystery to me for several of my early voting years..?

Yes, I can see why it was a mystery, it was a mystery because you did not know. You keep reinforcing my opinion and proving me right!!
Can I understand why you did not know?
Sure, of course I can.

I *know* I'm not the only person who sees our taxes this way, because there are a lot of folks living off the welfare system who probably think the same way.. No, the money isn't pooled from an existing fund, it comes out of our paycheck rumps additionally to everything else that we are already paying into or for.

Correct!!

Now, on to the magnificent OWG (One-world gov't, etc.)



Never heard that "Christians" (born-again type) want the NWO.. They just want Jesus to come back and straighten out the mess this world is going to leave in the turmoil of things still yet to come.

Ok, you missed all the sarcasm in that exchange between Tood and I.
Let me ask though, If Jesus returns and rules the whole world, isn't that -by definition- A "one world order"? Sure, it's not the one you mean, but it is -still- a one world "kingdom of God". You approve of one "one world order" because your beliefs align with it, that is the only difference.

Again, if the complaints are coming from "Christians" who have read and *understand* what the book of Revelation states, their biggest fear is seeing the world being controlled by the "AntiChrist" -- or person who causes everyone to not be able to buy or sell without having "the mark" on their hand or forehead, and worshiping the "beast" -- whatever that is.

Read it, seen the movie, got the T-shirt. Hey, I even understand it.
HOWEVER no one is forced to believe in it, it's a religious doctrine, remember. I can ignore your Armageddon, you can ignore mine.

On the surface, it sounds like you're trusting too much in current *regional* turf zones and agencies on why such a system might not be created. Otherwise, I would think that one major executive (administration) level would exist at the top tier level, with subdivisions broken down at various other levels, so that each would have to report to the level (or supervising tier) above it. Sort of like now with districts reporting to their county and state, state to country (federal) and then federal to the administrative international level. It's possible to create, but would require massive cooperation between the entire populations of this planet.

Yes, it's possible with -COOPERATION-. But as I said to Annoyed we are not ready for it yet, and if we do rush it, we will make mistakes, quite possibly catastrophic mistakes. I -dream- of such a time, but I am not stupid enough to think it can be forced or rushed. We have seen -in recent history alone- the damage that can be done when systems are forced on people (and I don't mean "damn PC junk") I mean -REAL- forcing of systems on people.
To drink from the well of Star trek again, the change to the "United Earth Government" did not happen spontaneously, but after a catastrophic 3rd world war. We can either mirror that, or take a lesson from it.

Let me just add that for several years now, various agencies within our Federal (USA) laws and regulations have been revising their rules to either be incorporated by reference or noted word for word, according to the international law book, as such a ruling is written/codified per the United Nations law code book. Our world is apparently a lot closer to becoming united by the same Law codes than the general populations of people might realize.

And...............??

[Coco Pops]

The best cops are psicops

[Gatefan1976]

Bester? Is that you?

[Coco Pops]

Bester? Is that you?

LOL. no. But I like psicorp they have cool ships and cool uniforms.

But they are evil scum. That's a bad thing.

[SGalisa]

Correct
...
No changes, just pointing out where you say you did not know what you were voting on.
So, tell you what, rather than me "taking you out of context", explain what your context actually is and we can drop this.
...
So, in defence of the charge of not knowing what you were voting for, you point to people in the US not knowing??
Can you see WHY I said what I did yet?

I think you are confusing the "knowing what we are voting for" part between the actual project vs the actual money paying for it. I know what the project is, thus I *know* what I'm voting Yes or NO for. However, I always thought the funding money was already specifically set aside for the new projects, sort of like borrowing from an existing mutual fund... durrr. Not (always) so.

To me, what you wrote earlier translates on its own that I didn't know what the project being voted upon was all about. To me, that (voting) in itself has nothing to do with where the taxes come from to pay for it. Gov't automatically "assumes" mostly all voters *know* or are aware that the funding comes directly from our paychecks in additional taxes being heaped upon us by our own "Yes" or "No" vote. That means they "assume" voters know how the funding system actually works, and that there are no excuses around not understanding what is printed on our ballots, even WHEN the ballot retranslates--sort of in layman's terms than in legal-eeze lingo--what improvements will be performed per such-and-such project.

Can you see WHY I said what I did yet?
Look, I get that people don't know this stuff because it is not taught in schools for the most part, I understand that, and it really is no different here. In fact, I would say it is worse here because we don't have, and to my knowledge have never had a course like Civics that you folks have (had?) in the US. You only got taught this stuff in it's most basic form in high school if you did legal studies. The only "advantage" we have is *because* we all have to vote, we tend to learn stuff despite ourselves.

Okay, before I even saw your comment about "Civics" etc, maybe the following info might help clarify this *lack-brain TAX* situation better.

Anyway, between my previous post and your reply, I was talking with my ancient schoolmate from long ago, and we were discussing this property tax issue. Why it never came up in my school. She learned it in business math. I never had such a course. I remembered vaguely hearing a reference to "property taxes" when my 8th grade, basic math teacher was teaching us how to get the correct totals to an IRS SHORT FORM. We bypassed the property tax portion, because it didn't apply in that particular problem solving situation. She said that we'll probably learn about it in our later high school years mathematics class.

Well, I never saw any future "property tax" itemization or mathematic computation, because I never had such a class that taught it past that first IRS-Tax Short Form from 8th grade. I went from basic math to Algebra-1 which I excelled in, then to Geometry (which I hated the word theorums and flopped as a result), and then back to Algebra-2 where I excelled again. I never took calculus or anything higher, and never had any business math or accounting courses.

Because I was never really told how property taxes were calculated or itemized, I always thought they were based on the value of your house -- period, not the surrounding town, plus any extras in the area..! I was also under the impression that "property taxes" went up, because the value of a person's *home with its surrounding property* became higher in value from home improvements being made by the homeowner. Okay, so that is partially true.. what it's missing is the rest of the surrounding city or town's appearance around that particular house dwelling.

During the years I was renting an apartment with my hubby (who also never explained the itemized Tax system to me -- he/we used the SHORT Form then), I found out years later, when his mom complained about her property taxes going up because the house got rezoned with a new price tag estimate. SHE was the one who informed me about how the itemized system worked, but only on a house, not on an apartment.

Eventually, my hubby explained that because we rented and paid a monthly sum fee, we never saw how much went into paying for all the extras in the surrounding locality. Every time we voted YES for town/school improvements, it (that is, the TAX towards paying it) got added into our apartment's total RENTAL fee. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh. That's not good. I always thought our rent went up "just because" of competing rental prices.. Duh!

Does that help explain where my lack of understanding. The whole TAX thing gets really,REALLY complicated, which is why most folks hire a TAX consultant to figure out their IRS's LONG Tax Form, to remain compliant with the town's (other?) Tax bills just for letting you live where you are. Lots of people have trouble doing the math as it is on a SHORT Form, so they usuallyy don't even think about the Longer Tax Form without further legal counsel.

Ok, you missed all the sarcasm in that exchange between Tood and I.

maybe.. maybe not.

Let me ask though, If Jesus returns and rules the whole world, isn't that -by definition- A "one world order"? Sure, it's not the one you mean, but it is -still- a one world "kingdom of God". You approve of one "one world order" because your beliefs align with it, that is the only difference.

Sort of true. But that kingdom is NOT of this world. It is a united universe kingdom. That's much, MUCH bigger than this tiny little earth; even if including the solar system or the entire milky way galaxy in and of itself.
Now, about those universal, globalize laws and regulations, as currently compliant with the U.N. Law codes..

And...............??

Don't know yet. To be continued.. either in the near or distant future.. *wink, wink!*
I did read in a very recent NY Times article, tho, that President Obama is working on a plan for achieving "globalization" before he leaves his current office position.

[Gatefan1976]

I think you are confusing the "knowing what we are voting for" part between the actual project vs the actual money paying for it. I know what the project is, thus I *know* what I'm voting Yes or NO for. However, I always thought the funding money was already specifically set aside for the new projects, sort of like borrowing from an existing mutual fund... durrr. Not (always) so.

To me, what you wrote earlier translates on its own that I didn't know what the project being voted upon was all about. To me, that (voting) in itself has nothing to do with where the taxes come from to pay for it. Gov't automatically "assumes" mostly all voters *know* or are aware that the funding comes directly from our paychecks in additional taxes being heaped upon us by our own "Yes" or "No" vote. That means they "assume" voters know how the funding system actually works, and that there are no excuses around not understanding what is printed on our ballots, even WHEN the ballot retranslates--sort of in layman's terms than in legal-eeze lingo--what improvements will be performed per such-and-such project.

Yes, I got that, but you said you "accidently voted Dem", which means you must have agreed with what the Dem's were saying, right?
If you knew who proposed it, and what party they were from, how can you "accidently" vote for them???

Okay, before I even saw your comment about "Civics" etc, maybe the following info might help clarify this *lack-brain TAX* situation better.

Anyway, between my previous post and your reply, I was talking with my ancient schoolmate from long ago, and we were discussing this property tax issue. Why it never came up in my school. She learned it in business math. I never had such a course. I remembered vaguely hearing a reference to "property taxes" when my 8th grade, basic math teacher was teaching us how to get the correct totals to an IRS SHORT FORM. We bypassed the property tax portion, because it didn't apply in that particular problem solving situation. She said that we'll probably learn about it in our later high school years mathematics class.

Well, I never saw any future "property tax" itemization or mathematic computation, because I never had such a class that taught it past that first IRS-Tax Short Form from 8th grade. I went from basic math to Algebra-1 which I excelled in, then to Geometry (which I hated the word theorums and flopped as a result), and then back to Algebra-2 where I excelled again. I never took calculus or anything higher, and never had any business math or accounting courses.

Because I was never really told how property taxes were calculated or itemized, I always thought they were based on the value of your house -- period, not the surrounding town, plus any extras in the area..! I was also under the impression that "property taxes" went up, because the value of a person's *home with its surrounding property* became higher in value from home improvements being made by the homeowner. Okay, so that is partially true.. what it's missing is the rest of the surrounding city or town's appearance around that particular house dwelling.

During the years I was renting an apartment with my hubby (who also never explained the itemized Tax system to me -- he/we used the SHORT Form then), I found out years later, when his mom complained about her property taxes going up because the house got rezoned with a new price tag estimate. SHE was the one who informed me about how the itemized system worked, but only on a house, not on an apartment.

Eventually, my hubby explained that because we rented and paid a monthly sum fee, we never saw how much went into paying for all the extras in the surrounding locality. Every time we voted YES for town/school improvements, it (that is, the TAX towards paying it) got added into our apartment's total RENTAL fee. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh. That's not good. I always thought our rent went up "just because" of competing rental prices.. Duh!

Yes, it explains it, it does not mean that you still did not know, it explains -why- you did not know.
Chalk it up to mis-communication if you want.

Does that help explain where my lack of understanding. The whole TAX thing gets really,REALLY complicated, which is why most folks hire a TAX consultant to figure out their IRS's LONG Tax Form, to remain compliant with the town's (other?) Tax bills just for letting you live where you are. Lots of people have trouble doing the math as it is on a SHORT Form, so they usuallyy don't even think about the Longer Tax Form without further legal counsel.

Your tax code is............ Challenging to say the least.

maybe.. maybe not.

????????

Sort of true. But that kingdom is NOT of this world. It is a united universe kingdom. That's much, MUCH bigger than this tiny little earth; even if including the solar system or the entire milky way galaxy in and of itself.
Now, about those universal, globalize laws and regulations, as currently compliant with the U.N. Law codes..

That is dependant on your "flavour" of Christianity as I am sure you are well aware.

Don't know yet. To be continued.. either in the near or distant future.. *wink, wink!*
I did read in a very recent NY Times article, tho, that President Obama is working on a plan for achieving "globalization" before he leaves his current office position.

No hope in hell.

[Annoyed]

so now you not only support big government you also support world government?
(then again we know Trump ain't exactly a "small government" sort of chap)

Did I say I support it? On the contrary, I oppose any attempt at a "NWO". Did you note earlier when I said that any attempt to impose one at this time in our development might destroy us?

[Annoyed]

No.. I KNEW what proposed ideas and goals were being voted on and for, but I didn't know that the funding meant taking more money out of our paychecks in the form of paying out "Property TAXES". This is a separate TAX from income and consumer's shopping taxes. But obviously, you already knew that.

Sadly, most of us early aged voters in the USA did not or do NOT know that.. that is why our system of getting things done is so messed up.. The fault is either in the education system or learning process of the individual.

This process is called "Learning". It is something that most people go through as they get older, wiser and have more experience.

There is an old saying that goes like this:

If You Are Not a Liberal at 25, You Have No Heart. If You Are Not a Conservative at 35 You Have No Brain

The exact ages vary, but that statement rings true.

Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. Some folks are just not capable of learning this. We call them Liberals or Democrats.

[Gatefan1976]

This is true, it's taken at least 30 years for Republicans to realise they were getting bent over............

[Annoyed]

This is true, it's taken at least 30 years for Republicans to realise they were getting bent over............

No, actually, many of us like myself realized it, there just wasn't anyone on the national stage willing to say it till now.
Who do you think is behind the incredibly high levels of voter support that Trump is receiving on the Republican side of things? He set records in the primaries this year.

And that level of support might just carry over into the general election as well.

The talking heads, policy wonks, pollsters, scholars and all the other "experts" have never taken the impact of Republican party policies upon the average working stiff seriously for one simple reason. They themselves were not affected in the slightest, so they never felt them as "real" issues.

When given a chance, those working class stiffs are rising up and speaking very loudly. Quite possibly loud enough to put an otherwise poor candidate in the White House with a landslide victory.

[Gatefan1976]

No, actually, many of us like myself realized it, there just wasn't anyone on the national stage willing to say it till now.

Did you stop voting, or at least stop voting Republican?
If the answer is no, what you may have realized does not matter, except to show that you personally knew you were getting shafted, and voted for it anyway.
Great plan!!

Who do you think is behind the incredibly high levels of voter support that Trump is receiving on the Republican side of things? He set records in the primaries this year.

You don't want me to answer that honestly.

And that level of support might just carry over into the general election as well.

2 weeks in, the man is self destructing, and people in his party are looking to piss him off. I am not sure if I should find your position optimistic, or disturbing.

The talking heads, policy wonks, pollsters, scholars and all the other "experts" have never taken the impact of Republican party policies upon the average working stiff seriously for one simple reason. They themselves were not affected in the slightest, so they never felt them as "real" issues.

I'm sorry, but the Democrats have been warning "blue collar Joe" about that fact for decades, but as it came from a dirty, filthy, hippie, Saul Alinsky Satanist, Socialist, communist Lefty, they did not listen.
So no, they got told, don't whinge about it now.

When given a chance, those working class stiffs are rising up and speaking very loudly. Quite possibly loud enough to put an otherwise poor candidate in the White House with a landslide victory.

At least you now admit he is a "poor candidate", that's a start.

[Womble]

So the Palestinians are about to have municipal elections, and the usual fun stuff begins. It was noticed, for once (grudgingly but nevertheless) by the mainstream media that the "moderate" party of Mahmoud Abbas advertises itself by its body count.

Fatah Makes Incendiary Facebook Claim of Killing 11,000 Israelis

And the reason they are claiming it, of course, is to appeal to the audience. To the Palestinian people. Because that's what earns one popularity among the Palestinian people - whoever murders the most Jews, wins.