The Political Discussion Thread

[SoulReaver]

on the other hand using violence against anti-Trump demonstrators is Patriotic
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKCN0YG1VB

I like the charges - "selling T-shirts without a permit to unlawful assembly". egad dangerous felons! Us much safer without these terrorists! (who supports the 1st amendment again?)

[garhkal]

Same questions I asked the others Womble.

OH, Edit.
Why does it matter where the server was set up BTW?

TO me it matters for 3 reasons
1) a server in an unprotected area that has sensitive info on, is just ASKING to get hacked
B) it shows lack of forethought on Hillary's part in how she has stuff set up
C), it shows she is not only willing to ignore rules but LIE about doing it..

You did not read the article did you?
To quote from the Article, so you can see it:

I added the bold.

It's not only outlandish, it's HUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGEEEEEE.

And how many of those 5 other runners are business people? How many have worked OUTSIDE of politics?

Well, the same company that makes Trump dump rolls -also- makes Hillary rolls, just the Trump ones sell at a 50 to 8 ratio.
I thought people liked the free market??!!??

I did not know that. Thanks for pointing it out.. Now do i buy a roll of shill TP, or not???

I'm not familair with the reign of JFK, other than that he was shot in Dallas, so I can't say that I have.

****

Anyhoodle -- according to some experts in the field Trump is a thread to the First Amendment:

Trump Could Threaten U.S. Rule of Law, Scholars Say

If you feel Obama's not keeping to his duties, than you really don't want Trump in office either cause he's worse than the "LSoS".

Reading that article..
[With five months to go before Election Day, Mr. Trump has already said he would “loosen” libel laws to make it easier to sue news organizations. He has threatened to sic federal regulators on his critics. He has encouraged rough treatment of demonstrators.]

First off, how is 'loosening liable laws, to start holding news orgs accountable, when they rarely (these days to what I see) properly apologize when they screw the pooch. Like all the times they got on cases of students 'for rape' but when those charges were found to be false, you didn't hear a single one getting on their same high horse to publicly pronounce these guys 'good to go now'...

As for the 'sicing regulators' on critics, how is that different than obama having the IRS go after conservative non profits, or wanting to sic the DoJ on 'climate change deniers'??

[His proposal to bar Muslims from entry into the country tests the Constitution’s guarantees of religious freedom, due process and equal protection.]

I have heard people say that too. BUT doesn't the Constitution also say somewhere "People who want to overthrow the government (install sharia law imo counts) shall not be granted access to the US??" (Well something like that)...

[jelgate]

You are talking about a small group of people. To me this compares to the Japanese interment campa

[Gatefan1976]

TO me it matters for 3 reasons
1) a server in an unprotected area that has sensitive info on, is just ASKING to get hacked

Are bathrooms "super hacking area's"? Would it be safer in the fridge?

B) it shows lack of forethought on Hillary's part in how she has stuff set up

If it's there, did you think there might be a reason for it?

C), it shows she is not only willing to ignore rules but LIE about doing it..

Did she ever say she never had a server?

Hillary lies, yes, but why not go after the stuff you can prove and matters rather than this wishy washy stuff that hasn't?
Do you ever notice how much time they spend on these Emails and her "homebrew server" Vs her connections to wall street?
They rely on people getting upset about things they don't understand, and lo, it works.

And how many of those 5 other runners are business people? How many have worked OUTSIDE of politics?

Sigh.
They are ALL businesspeople NONE of them are in politics. it is a direct Apples to Apples comparison.

I did not know that. Thanks for pointing it out.. Now do i buy a roll of shill TP, or not???

If you want

Reading that article..
[With five months to go before Election Day, Mr. Trump has already said he would “loosen” libel laws to make it easier to sue news organizations. He has threatened to sic federal regulators on his critics. He has encouraged rough treatment of demonstrators.]

First off, how is 'loosening liable laws, to start holding news orgs accountable, when they rarely (these days to what I see) properly apologize when they screw the pooch. Like all the times they got on cases of students 'for rape' but when those charges were found to be false, you didn't hear a single one getting on their same high horse to publicly pronounce these guys 'good to go now'...

LOL!!
He does not care about that, what he cares about is when someone in the press core talks about his "tiny hands", he can sue them. When he screws the pooch, he can control the media response and spin.
He wants the media answerable to him, the final nail in the coffin of the "free press"
Also, he want's to sic regulatory people on his detractors. I sorta remember you folks getting upset with Obama for doing that, and he want's to not only make it easier, but has outright said he will do it.

As for the 'sicing regulators' on critics, how is that different than obama having the IRS go after conservative non profits, or wanting to sic the DoJ on 'climate change deniers'??

Nothing, why is it different if it's him and not Obama?

[His proposal to bar Muslims from entry into the country tests the Constitution’s guarantees of religious freedom, due process and equal protection.]

I have heard people say that too. BUT doesn't the Constitution also say somewhere "People who want to overthrow the government (install sharia law imo counts) shall not be granted access to the US??" (Well something like that)...

No.

[Falcon Horus]

Meant to post this yesterday but forgot about it - now that we're talking about lies, I remembered it:

Which Is Worse — That Donald Trump Lies So Much, or That He's So Bad at Lying?
In Trump vs. Hillary, one candidate is held to the standards of a reality TV star (outrageousness wins), another to those of an actual public official.

You seriously think Annoyed was a Hippy?
ROFLMFAO!!!!!

I can't honestly say that I thought that -- it's kind of hard to imagine it.

[aretood2]

precisely: a free economy, not free people

To be fair, a lot of Libertarians don't like the idea of gestapo style roundups of millions of people dividing families and shipping them out in trucks, and trains to camps...It just doesn't match the idea of what a small government is supposed to be like. They also don't like the idea of the government deciding who gets to come and who doesn't. If an immigrant is willing and able to get to the US and work, and his background is clean as well as healthy, then the government has no business telling him he can't come in. In essence, that's the US's original immigration policy.

TO me it matters for 3 reasons
1) a server in an unprotected area that has sensitive info on, is just ASKING to get hacked
B) it shows lack of forethought on Hillary's part in how she has stuff set up
C), it shows she is not only willing to ignore rules but LIE about doing it..

Some of us aren't defending Hillary as much as just simply wondering why her lies merit more disdain than Trump's lies from you. I mean, he lies a lot. For example, he lied about Bush asking him to build casinos in Florida, turns out it was the other way around and Bush said no. He lied about that contradicting Bush in one of the debates on the matter. That's just a straight up bold faced lie.

Reading that article..
[With five months to go before Election Day, Mr. Trump has already said he would “loosen” libel laws to make it easier to sue news organizations. He has threatened to sic federal regulators on his critics. He has encouraged rough treatment of demonstrators.]

First off, how is 'loosening liable laws, to start holding news orgs accountable, when they rarely (these days to what I see) properly apologize when they screw the pooch. Like all the times they got on cases of students 'for rape' but when those charges were found to be false, you didn't hear a single one getting on their same high horse to publicly pronounce these guys 'good to go now'...

victims of false accusations couldn't be further from his mind. He's more interested in people who speak ill of him. If he truly cared about that situation, he would have advocated as much. In fact, there are plenty of men in colleges who would love to get his support in such a matter. Oddly enough I doubt if he is even aware of their existence. We certainly have no indication of such.

As for the 'sicing regulators' on critics, how is that different than obama having the IRS go after conservative non profits, or wanting to sic the DoJ on 'climate change deniers'??

Still doesn't change the fact that it is bad...

[His proposal to bar Muslims from entry into the country tests the Constitution’s guarantees of religious freedom, due process and equal protection.]

I have heard people say that too. BUT doesn't the Constitution also say somewhere "People who want to overthrow the government (install sharia law imo counts) shall not be granted access to the US??" (Well something like that)...

The constitution refers to individuals, as in someone who does want to overthrow the US government. Not a blanket statement against more than one billion people because...Islamophobia.

Meant to post this yesterday but forgot about it - now that we're talking about lies, I remembered it:

Which Is Worse — That Donald Trump Lies So Much, or That He's So Bad at Lying?
In Trump vs. Hillary, one candidate is held to the standards of a reality TV star (outrageousness wins), another to those of an actual public official.



I can't honestly say that I thought that -- it's kind of hard to imagine it.

Thank you, I won't have to look for more examples of his lies!

[SoulReaver]

To be fair, a lot of Libertarians don't like the idea of gestapo style roundups of millions of people dividing families and shipping them out in trucks, and trains to camps...It just doesn't match the idea of what a small government is supposed to be like.

depends what brand of "libertarians"

Hayek didn't mind
Friedman didn't mind
the Chicago Boys really didn't mind

My comment about the Dalai Llama wasn't about what he was saying, it was about that *HE* was saying it.

Wasn't the Dalai Llama mr "live in peace together" and "be kind" etc and now he's "stop taking in refugees". Seems extremely un-Dalai Llama-like.

nope he's saying "don't overdo it" because he feels it compromises "live in peace together"
(besides "kind" works both ways)

there's also the detail about him saying they should be helped to rebuild their own countries (which btw would be much more of an ideal solution)

[garhkal]

Did she ever say she never had a server?

Hillary lies, yes, but why not go after the stuff you can prove and matters rather than this wishy washy stuff that hasn't?
Do you ever notice how much time they spend on these Emails and her "homebrew server" Vs her connections to wall street?
They rely on people getting upset about things they don't understand, and lo, it works.

SO far she has claimed that
A) it was never hacked (which now we know was false)
B) that she never had classified data on it (which is patiently false)
and C) she had the ok for it, which again is false.. How many lies do you want before you have to pay for them??

Some of us aren't defending Hillary as much as just simply wondering why her lies merit more disdain than Trump's lies from you. I mean, he lies a lot. For example, he lied about Bush asking him to build casinos in Florida, turns out it was the other way around and Bush said no. He lied about that contradicting Bush in one of the debates on the matter. That's just a straight up bold faced lie.

Maybe because its a level OF lies.. Such as me lying to my wife (if i had one that is) that her butt does NOT look big in that dress (as we all do), compared to Lying to my wife that i got robbed of 3k, when instead i was actually out with hookers all weekend and blew it..
It's also to WHOM the lie was said. IN the Shill's case it was to Congress...

[Gatefan1976]

SO far she has claimed that
A) it was never hacked (which now we know was false)

The WH and the DOJ have also been hacked

B) that she never had classified data on it (which is patiently false)

How do you know this for fact?
Every time this charge comes up, the investigators even go out of their way to say that any info sent in emails has not been classified when she sent it.

and C) she had the ok for it, which again is false.. How many lies do you want before you have to pay for them??

Now C, that is true.
So, we have one lie, one load of outright ignorance and fear mongering, and something you cannot prove.
What do you want her to "pay for" exactly, the lie, or the accusations and ignorance?

Maybe because its a level OF lies.. Such as me lying to my wife (if i had one that is) that her butt does NOT look big in that dress (as we all do)

Untrue.

, compared to Lying to my wife that i got robbed of 3k, when instead i was actually out with hookers all weekend and blew it..

Bad lie

It's also to WHOM the lie was said. IN the Shill's case it was to Congress...

In comparison to what?
Seriously man, go to someone like politifact and fact check Trump.
LOOK at the USA today article I linked.
Ask why he will not release his tax returns.
Ask WHY he wants to limit the power of the press and allow them to be sued easier.

I can't convince you, but look for yourself.
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/
http://www.ibtimes.com/list-donald-t...t-hold-2330265
http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...sehoods-213730
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...the-same.html#
http://www.salon.com/2016/05/21/dona...ted_the_truth/

[aretood2]

depends what brand of "libertarians"

Hayek didn't mind
Friedman didn't mind
the Chicago Boys really didn't mind

I'm afraid I really don't know what you are talking about. I mean, I haven't heard anything from Friedman or Hayek that would even hint being in favor of mass deportations and large government operations on American soil (or in any soil for that matter).

Friedman, for example, only wants some restrictions on the account of the welfare state, not because of any conservative xenophobia. He favors open borders actually. As for rounding up millions...I'm not familiar with his comments to that effect. If anything, he prefers illegal immigration under a welfare state cause it would cause the welfare system to collapse. However, studies (Such as those found in CATO's website, a libertarian source btw) show that immigrants gravitate to areas with less welfare anyway so the issue is a bit more complex. And as all complex issues go, it does stand to reason that every group will have those who would seek simple s olutions. Friedman isn't really one of them.

Hayek did favor free immigration, but was also aware of the dangers of a nativist backlash, thus his more moderate tone on the issue. As for the Chicago Boys I really can't say much about them, don't know enough.

[SoulReaver]

I'm afraid I really don't know what you are talking about. I mean, I haven't heard anything from Friedman or Hayek that would even hint being in favor of mass deportations and large government operations on American soil (or in any soil for that matter).

you were unaware that they supported Pinochet? ain't really a secret

[garhkal]

The WH and the DOJ have also been hacked

Have they ever tried denying it??

How do you know this for fact?
Every time this charge comes up, the investigators even go out of their way to say that any info sent in emails has not been classified when she sent it.

Didn't we have several reports from last month showing how many HUNDREDS of her emails were classified??

Now C, that is true.
So, we have one lie, one load of outright ignorance and fear mongering, and something you cannot prove.
What do you want her to "pay for" exactly, the lie, or the accusations and ignorance?

Last time i checked lying to congress Was what got Bill impeached, NOT that he did what he did, but the fact he LIED to congress about it...

So how is what HE did, worth getting impeached, but what SHE has done (and continues to deny), not worthy of making her unable to run to get the same position HE was fired from?

[Annoyed]

Well, it seems that Col. Sanders is more of a Democrat than a Socialist...

Bases his actions on how he wishes the world was, rather than how it is. Fool.

Sanders: 'The Democratic National Convention will be a contested convention'

Washington (CNN)Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders on Saturday vowed to continue his fight for the Democratic nomination beyond the primary season, telling reporters at a news conference in Los Angeles that he plans to go after Hillary Clinton's superdelegates.
Clinton currently has 2,313 total delegates -- 1,769 of which are pledged and 544 are superdelegates -- and she is expected to cross the 2,383-delgate threshold in the next few days to clinch the nomination. But Sanders, who has 1,501 pledged delegates and only 46 superdelegates, says he can still woo enough of her superdelegates between now and the Democratic convention in July to swing the nomination his way.

Someone want to tell this guy that the first step in winning any battle is to understand the situation as it really is? He don't seem to grasp that.

[Annoyed]

TO me it matters for 3 reasons
1) a server in an unprotected area that has sensitive info on, is just ASKING to get hacked
B) it shows lack of forethought on Hillary's part in how she has stuff set up
C), it shows she is not only willing to ignore rules but LIE about doing it..

I would also add:
D) In the case of official misconduct, it is far easier for her to hide the evidence in the case of any official investigation. "Sorry, those emails, and the backups have been lost". This seems to be a repeating theme with her.

[Falcon Horus]

If lying ends in impeachment, Trump wouldn't last a week as President.