Originally posted by ~Dave
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Originally posted by ~Dave View PostNope. The Bible is worded such that time is not undetermined except in certain cases. For example, if you see "the day of atonement", we have no way of knowing how long that was. But if there is a numeral, or an ordinal, we do. Such as "and it was evening and morning of the first day". In that case it was a 24 hour day. So, unless you want to completely recreate the Bible to conform to evolution, there's no way for it to be compatible.
~Dave
And I'd like to add that nowhere does it say anything about a 24 hour day. It just uses the words "morning", "evening" and "day".
The bible doesn't contradict evolution at all. And it doesn't even imply that the world is "X" number of years. That's merely one interpritation.
Originally posted by Coco Pops View PostSo in other words god overrides their free will.. They write what HE wanted them to write. Hmmmm sounds suspicious.
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Originally posted by Myn MacGeek, Third Sentinel View PostThe bible doesn't contradict evolution at all. And it doesn't even imply that the world is "X" number of years. That's merely one interpritation.[/COLOR]sigpic
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Originally posted by AvatarIII View Postmy point was more like "if god is speaking to you in one ear, and the devil in another, and each sounds identical, since apparently imitation and deception are the devil's forté, how can you possibly know which is god and which is the devil?"
it might be a case that the devil sounds more like what you expect god to sound like than god ctually does, in which case those that follow god are in fact following the devil.
sometimes i think, that if there really is a god, i think he would respect non-believers that do good for the sake of doing good, more than believers that do good for the sake of god, and that it is perhaps the devil, who perhaps created religion as we see it today through maniplulating people.
And God does respect people who do good for the sake of doing good. The thing is, God is all things good. This "good" you speak of is God. So, if someone simply doesn't believe in God for lack of evidence, but tries their best to be a good person and lives their lives for the betterment of humanity, God will certainly have more mercy on them than on those who do horrible things in the name of Him. It's only because it's so much harder to know what is right or wrong and to be led astray than people care to think that God teaches us to strive towards Him and follow His Word.
So... am I making sense? I'm not feeling well tonight and I can't think as clearly as usual... so just keep on asking if you're still confused.
Originally posted by AvatarIII View Posti've always thought so too, and being raised a christian, and then rejecting christianity, i'd still rather do what i consider to be good, than what a book tells me to do, it defeats the object of free will if you do not get to choose what you consider to be right and wrong, and being told what to do, and not having a choice fits the MO of lucifer pretty well
And that brings me back to what I said about God having mercy on those who do good for the sake of good. Even though they don't believe in God, they're actually doing His will anyway. So He will have mercy on them and give them... when they die, it will be clear that He actually does exist. So those who were good people but didn't believe will have one last chance to accept His love and mercy.
Originally posted by dalene View Postalso, I don't say the "hail mary", bc that's praying to someone other than God & He said to not set up/create any other idols, or pray to anyone other than Him & this would include humans who have been faithful.
"Hail Mary, full of grace, of Lord is with thee. Blessed are thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy whom, Jesus": Just a greeting.
"Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, amen.": Just a request for her to intercede to her Son for us.
See? We're just asking her to pray for us to her Son. Remember the wedding at Cana? When Mary told Jesus they had run out of wine? At first, He seemed reluctant to do anything about it. But Mary told the servants to do what He said, then He did turn the water to wine to please His Mother. That's why we ask her to pray for us, because as God's mother, she is the most influential person one can ask to pray for them.
Originally posted by Pandora's_Box View PostOld Testament or New Testament? 'Cause Genesis is pretty definitive in its world view.
It's the New Testament that's definitive. And a lot of it is historically accurate. Well, all of it is, but I mean that even non-believers can see some of it.
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For me it all boils down to how life itself originate on Earth.
In a previous example, penguins were used as an example of evolution of different species of penguins. But how did the very first penguin come to be? And whatever the first penguin came from, where did that animal come from? How did the first ever living thing appear on Earth? Does all life on earth have one common ancestor? Because this is where religion claims to know the answer.
~Dave
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Originally posted by Myn MacGeek, Third Sentinel View PostActually, certain numerals might not have to be taken literally. The bible was originally written in Hebrew. Some words in the Hebrew language have more than one meaning. Certain numbers, for example, can also mean something much less specific.
And I'd like to add that nowhere does it say anything about a 24 hour day. It just uses the words "morning", "evening" and "day".
The bible doesn't contradict evolution at all. And it doesn't even imply that the world is "X" number of years. That's merely one interpritation.
No. They were perfectly willing for and open to Him writing through them.
*edit* This was from the creation of the animals, plants, and mankind given at the beginning of Genesis. Before that, the Earth was here, but we have no way of knowing what was here, or what happened. All we can do is dig up remains, and theorize. At least according to the people you mention.
~DaveLast edited by ~Dave; 13 December 2008, 06:50 AM.
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Originally posted by ~Dave View PostI can accept that interbreeding between some species of animals can produce some interesting characteristics which could be another sub-species within a species. That along with some adaptive evolution to adjust to different climactic conditions.
But I'm not seeing anything in nature or anywhere else to account for mankind as being evolved from lower animals of any kind.
"Putting two and two together", is not proof. There is simply nothing to prove primates turned into human beings no matter how much time passed to get it done.
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Originally posted by jenks View PostEvolution is evolution, you're trying to make a distinction where there isn't one.
I don't see how, the fossil record speaks for itself. It's a falsifiable fact that evolution occurs in nature, so why would we not accept that it happened in the past? Especially given that what evolution predicts, is found exactly as we would have expected in the fossil record. How can a science be correct now and not then, and why would we think that anyway?
What would you consider proof? Everything evolution theory predicts is found in nature, we know evolution happens now, why would it have been different in the past? Do you question gravitation theory in this manner? Is gravity in doubt because we can't prove that it worked in the past as it does now?
~Dave
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Originally posted by ~Dave View PostNot seeing it. If I'm reading the Bible correctly, then God did something about 4000BC that caused all life to be wiped out and then restarted life on Earth. (The Earth became void and without form.) So this is actually the second (at least) Earth age, and all the fossils which date before 4000BC belong to the previous age. And God began then to make all the animals and plants and people. From such a recent past, there is simply not enough time for evolution to play any part in the Christian Bible. At least according to my reading of it.
~DaveVice Admiral and occasionally the Acting Leader of the Gateworld Cantina
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Originally posted by ~Dave View PostEvolution predicts nothing. Evolution scientists observe remains and tries to put a theory on what they find. The theory changes over time as contradictory evidence is found. It is evolution which slaves to it's theory, not fossils which tell them anything. I think it's all guess work "substantiated" by unprovable/anecdotal/circumstantial fossil records. And we have a long history of jumping to the wrong conclusions based on this kind of evidence. But that's just my opinion.
~DaveVice Admiral and occasionally the Acting Leader of the Gateworld Cantina
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Originally posted by ~Dave View PostEvolution predicts nothing.
Evolution scientists observe remains and tries to put a theory on what they find.
The theory changes over time as contradictory evidence is found.
It is evolution which slaves to it's theory, not fossils which tell them anything.
I think it's all guess work "substantiated" by unprovable/anecdotal/circumstantial fossil records.
And we have a long history of jumping to the wrong conclusions based on this kind of evidence. But that's just my opinion.
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Originally posted by Pandora's_Box View PostOld Testament or New Testament? 'Cause Genesis is pretty definitive in its world view.
"What we see marking the flight of galaxies with our telescopes, Maimonides saw from his metaphysical view."- Arnold Penzias, who earned a Nobel Prize for his Big Bang research.If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.- Abba Eban.
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Originally posted by tombombadil View Postthose three words describe what "evidence" you have for god.
~Dave
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Originally posted by Womble View PostAnd its worldview is pro-evolution, as was concluded by Jewish theologians as early as 11th century. Which is why "Intelligent Design" doesn't fare well among Orthodox Jews.
"What we see marking the flight of galaxies with our telescopes, Maimonides saw from his metaphysical view."- Arnold Penzias, who earned a Nobel Prize for his Big Bang research.
~DaveLast edited by ~Dave; 13 December 2008, 12:56 PM.
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Again, you're misunderstanding scientific method. The conclusion scientist may or may not draw from what they see, are different from what they can prove. Evolution isn't an idea dreamt up from what we can see, it's something that can be proven through testing, and has been, over and over again.
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