The GLBT and GSA Thread

[mad_gater]

okay, so here we go... Rinc vented some hatred they were feeling toward and bunch of ppl



MG took offense, but not really



Rinc countered



MG went with the flow



Neep dropped by with her two cents then quickly left again



MG gave a friendly, rational explination for Neep's accusations



PH took notice of the above (^^^) highlighted terminology and asked an innocent question



and MG answered with his beliefs [( tho he could have used better wording )], which really got things started....



now that we've found the beginning... MG, would you like to try to rephrase? or should we just drop this.... i admit, i like seeing the thread so active, and with an actual debate! but at the same time, i don't want someone getting overly offended

yes taking a second look I can see where some of the terminology I used could give the impression of me being some kind of hateful ba$tard.....the argument I was trying to make and probably doing a poor job of it was that most people understand marriage as something that is not just for the mutual benefit of the partners but to society as well

but yeah I think we're done here....I think we've all said what we wanted to say...probably should've just left it at "I disagree with the lifestyle but recognize it doesn't give me the right to actually hate the person" and this whole kettle of fish probably could've been avoided

[lordofseas]

yes taking a second look I can see where some of the terminology I used could give the impression of me being some kind of hateful ba$tard.....the argument I was trying to make and probably doing a poor job of it was that most people understand marriage as something that is not just for the mutual benefit of the partners but to society as well

but yeah I think we're done here....I think we've all said what we wanted to say...probably should've just left it at "I disagree with the lifestyle but recognize it doesn't give me the right to actually hate the person" and this whole kettle of fish probably could've been avoided

Oh, it's not an impression. It's quite a clear and vivid image.

[Cold Fuzz]

I typically ignore Foley unless he has an interesting or rational point. Then I may engage in conversation with him.

-hangs head- you will haunt me even after i die, won't you? i'm gonna show up at the gates of hell and satan's gonna assign you as my roommate....



please, feel free to ignore him.... foley's like my personal shadow.... that i will never ever, ever get rid of.... but he's pretty much harmless and easily brainwashed if you have the time and patience

Really wonderful ideas.

Oh, it's not an impression. It's quite a clear and vivid image.

Seemed like it to me.

[Lilith]

I must admit, I am often unsure about things I say on this issue in either here or the RHD, simply because I have no actual direct "reason" to stick my nose in at all. I am not LGBT in the slightest and by my own argumentation SHOULD keep my nose out of it.
Seeing anyone getting being "predjudiced??" against though just tends to burn my britches.

i hear ya! but the GLBT community as a whole is not actually very cohesive.... i mean you have gays and lesbians who are predjudiced toward bi's and trans.... bi's and trans predjudiced against each other.... yadda and so forth.... there's almost as much infighting as there is sticking it to the man... it helps to have straight supporters... so what you don't have a personal connection to the cause? your support makes others think that what they're fighting for is worth it to somebody who by all rights should be against you in a best case scenario and doesn't care at all in a worst case scenario.... it gives them hope, that maybe they have the right to demand what they're demanding!

I only do that in the vein of supporting the fact that I believe it is a choice like the choice of murdering, raping, or robbing. This is my belief. I do not believe that being gay or sleeping with anyone of the same gender is on the same lines or anywhere close for that matter with murder, rape, or robbery, but these are all choices. Which distinguishes it from such things like gender or race...though granted modern medical science has advanced to such a great extent that even those are now choices...

so then how do you feel about ppl choosing the gender of their children during pregnancy? i mean the procedure to lock in a gender during early fetal development is new and insanely expensive, but one day it may become the social norm and someone not doing it would be considered weird or antiquated

[Col.Foley]

i hear ya! but the GLBT community as a whole is not actually very cohesive.... i mean you have gays and lesbians who are predjudiced toward bi's and trans.... bi's and trans predjudiced against each other.... yadda and so forth.... there's almost as much infighting as there is sticking it to the man... it helps to have straight supporters... so what you don't have a personal connection to the cause? your support makes others think that what they're fighting for is worth it to somebody who by all rights should be against you in a best case scenario and doesn't care at all in a worst case scenario.... it gives them hope, that maybe they have the right to demand what they're demanding!



so then how do you feel about ppl choosing the gender of their children during pregnancy? i mean the procedure to lock in a gender during early fetal development is new and insanely expensive, but one day it may become the social norm and someone not doing it would be considered weird or antiquated

I don't like it.

[lordofseas]

i hear ya! but the GLBT community as a whole is not actually very cohesive.... i mean you have gays and lesbians who are predjudiced toward bi's and trans.... bi's and trans predjudiced against each other.... yadda and so forth.... there's almost as much infighting as there is sticking it to the man... it helps to have straight supporters... so what you don't have a personal connection to the cause? your support makes others think that what they're fighting for is worth it to somebody who by all rights should be against you in a best case scenario and doesn't care at all in a worst case scenario.... it gives them hope, that maybe they have the right to demand what they're demanding!



so then how do you feel about ppl choosing the gender of their children during pregnancy? i mean the procedure to lock in a gender during early fetal development is new and insanely expensive, but one day it may become the social norm and someone not doing it would be considered weird or antiquated

He's probably against it, considering abortion and all.

[Lilith]

Oh, it's not an impression. It's quite a clear and vivid image.

Really wonderful ideas.




Seemed like it to me.

okay, so we agree, MG came out a little heavy handed and everything went pear-shaped really, really fast.... but no one's ready to sue, right?

[Col.Foley]

He's probably against it, considering abortion and all.

And those are two seperate issues.

And I don't like it but I can't really say I am 'against it'.

[lordofseas]

okay, so we agree, MG came out a little heavy handed and everything went pear-shaped really, really fast.... but no one's ready to sue, right?

I reserve the right.

And those are two seperate issues.

And I don't like it but I can't really say I am 'against it'.

...umm...the two topics are extremely correlated...meaning that you know little to nothing about one of them...

[Lilith]

I don't like it.

but it's a choice! just like murder, rape, and robbery! just like abortion and, in your mind atleast, sexual attraction! you're all about pro-choice! but you've just basically said that it's okay for ppl to choose to murder, rape, steal, or be physically attracted to someone of the same gender, but it's wrong to kill an unborn child or try to dictate its gender before it is born... they're all choices! what makes them different?

[Col.Foley]

I reserve the right.



...umm...the two topics are extremely correlated...meaning that you know little to nothing about one of them...

Well unless you have to kill the person and then reform it as another gender entirely then no I really can't see the connection. Of course though it is messing with something before they are 'born' in other words and since I believe that is a person then that should be locked in to let nature takes it course but hey I gave it my all.

[Lilith]

I reserve the right.



...umm...the two topics are extremely correlated...meaning that you know little to nothing about one of them...

okay, but um, let's try mediation and settling outside court first, yes? b/c i'd really hate to see which mod we'd pull as judge and jury

[Col.Foley]

but it's a choice! just like murder, rape, and robbery! just like abortion and, in your mind atleast, sexual attraction! you're all about pro-choice! but you've just basically said that it's okay for ppl to choose to murder, rape, steal, or be physically attracted to someone of the same gender, but it's wrong to kill an unborn child or try to dictate its gender before it is born... they're all choices! what makes them different?

I said no such thing. I don't happen to support any of the three above mentioned things. Nor do I support any choice where someone forces that choice on another. Which is where the line is. Which is also where I believe the line is in abortion.

And also I said...orginally...that I didn't like it. I didn't say I would force anyone to make a choice in that regard and even though I didn't like something I would leave them to make that choice. Just like smoking. I may not like people who smoke or make the choice to smoke but I would never force them to stop.

But then again it is forcing your idea of gender on the individual not even born... so in that vein I would support banning the practice. But since I just got that thought in my head virtually as I have been typing out this post I do not support or endorse it and have to consider it in more detail before I can make a descision.

[lordofseas]

Well unless you have to kill the person and then reform it as another gender entirely then no I really can't see the connection. Of course though it is messing with something before they are 'born' in other words and since I believe that is a person then that should be locked in to let nature takes it course but hey I gave it my all.

Sex selection during pregnancy includes doing a blood test on the foetus after seven weeks, and if the "wrong" sex is discovered, the foetus is aborted.

okay, but um, let's try mediation and settling outside court first, yes? b/c i'd really hate to see which mod we'd pull as judge and jury

To the Cantina Court!

[Col.Foley]

Sex selection during pregnancy includes doing a blood test on the foetus after seven weeks, and if the "wrong" sex is discovered, the foetus is aborted.



To the Cantina Court!

Really? In that case I was very ignorant on that subject.