"Chief Exorcist says Harry Potter is the devil" - Dont read if offendeded easily!

[immhotep]

Wow you really have just described exactly my process of discarding relgion from my life. i wanted to find one and didnt, so i chose to not have one atall and just be comforatable with who i wa and what i believed, which ended up being athiest/secular, i dont want anything to do with God or religion atall anymore.

[Louis_Vuitton]

wow really, maybe we're twina... I guess I've ended up being pretty atheist/secular too though I don't really like to label it *shrugs* makes it to "organized" for me and one day I may change my mind and take up some kind of religous/spiritual beliefs... but probably not ene then though it wouldn't be the christian religion my family for the most part was/is christian (except my brother and nan who are wiccan) but even when I was younger I was never really religous

[BJX]

I didnt hear about his recent dismissal of evolution... do you have a link?

Here you go: http://ansa.it/main/notizie/awnplus/...2_1128196.html

[Flyboy]

Here you go: http://ansa.it/main/notizie/awnplus/...2_1128196.html

Thanks.

[TrustNo1]

Just out of curiosity... What do you believe?

That evolution is a load of crap?

TrustNo1 your believes are incredible oer the top,

Over the top? It's what is taught in the bible.

your putting alot of effort in to something thats ultimately unprovable, until you can prove gods existance what the point even argueing about it.

Because it's what I believe in?!

You can say god is/isnt evil, and revelation is about the end of the world and go destroying everyone who didnt do the right thing in his eyes. Sounds evil to me.

What you perceive as evil and fair is not importnat to what God thinks.

This will be my last post to you in this thread.

Yay.

(a) Amorth sees HP as possessed by the devil (which is practically/scientifically impossible - ridiculous #1)

Scientifically impossible?! WTF are you on about? Since when can you measure the devil?

(d) Amorth (at least in this article) doesn't mention other fantasy books/movies like LOTR, Disney,... and makes it seem like "only" HP is the culprit here (ridiculous #4)

Wow that's a leap.

I'm not going to posts paragraphs of Bible passages here, because no one reads them anyway. Revelation 2.9 and 3.9, for example, promote everyone not being a Jew (Christian) to belong to Satan and not worthy of G*d's or believers' respect. Combine that with a religious leader and you'll have your third World War. BTW, I'm not entirely serious here, although I'm not far off.

That's not what it says at all! 2:9 says that some people say they are Jews but really they aren't but a servant of Satan. 3:9 says that liars will be made to acknowledge that God loves Christians.

TrustNo1, I didn't want to challenge your beliefs in this thread, but having looked at all your posts, and how people make good points, for you to dismiss them with one word/one sentence answers. Is infuriating.

Deep breaths, don't get stressed it's just a forum.

The Bible, written by MAN, not by God,

Your point? Does that mean God didn't have a hand in making it? No.

the Bible contradicts itself many times.

Lies.

How can you expect it to all be true?

Because it is?

Children want to imagine, to have a place where they don't have to deal in reality, and escape the boundries that they have to deal with.

Because being a child is so hard Do they need magic to imagine?

i don't see the point in replying anymore, TrustNo1 is obviously far too imature to come up with a good counter arguement

Obviously

I'll never agree with TrustNo1, I think his beliefs are more superstition than Faith.

Coming from someone who has no idea what the bible says.

I'd love to see how he'd treat me if I converted to Wicca and went to his house and invited him for tea and biscuits.

Come over then and find out.

I'd love to see how he'd treat me if I converted to Wicca and went to his house and invited him for tea and biscuits.

Because Wiccans don't burn down churches and kill nuns if the Pope says something about them. We force ourselves to apologise to Muslims so they don't kill us. When was the last time a Wiccan suicide bombed us?

Wicca is a culture and a religion. A legitimate religion. Why shouldnt that be accreditted respect?

I respect religions, I just know they're wrong.

Questions for Wiccans

Do the gods and goddesses of Wicca actually exist?
If they actually exist, how do you know they exist?
If you're tradition contradicts the tradition of another Wiccan, can they both be objectively true?
How do you feel about believing in the religious system where you cater your religion to your desires?
if you cater/construct your religion according to our desires, then isn't it nothing more than your own invention?
Is Wicca able to be shown to be false or is it all non-verifiable ideas?
If your spells and incantations produce results, how do you know that the power behind the results is good or not?
How do you know that there is something more sinister behind Wicca?
Why do you think that rituals dealing with candles, knives, and such are able to affect nature?

[Flyboy]

TrustNo1,

Does your God actually exist?
If he does actually exist, how do you know he exists?
If you're tradition contradicts the tradition of another Christian, can they both be objectively true?
How do you know that there isnt something more sinister behind Christianity?

Don't just say yes or no. Prove it.

You CAN'T.

Religion has NO proof. It is FAITH and by nature faith cannot be proven. You are entitled to believe whatever you damn well please, but you have no right to dictate to others than they are wrong. Because you cannot prove
your argument any more than they can.

And "the bible says so" isn't proof.

[Louis_Vuitton]

Some people night like this some people might red me for it.. meh.. not trying to be offensive just another voice with other opinions.. but I really like this 'story'.
http://www.jhuger.com/kisshank.php

[spg_1983]

WOW, I can't believe there are people actually agreeing with the Church on this. Ooooh Harry is so evil! He is teaching our kids the difference between good and bad, standing up for your beliefs, FIGHTING evil, and growing up! What a horrible message! I also find the church's position on this incredibly hillarious altogether. They are attacking a childrens book because it has fantasy elements? They really have too much time on their hands. Also do the people defending them realize that Stargate goes against official church doctorine as well? Official church doctorine is that Earth is special, God created us special. The idea of aliens and life on other planets is contrary to everything the church says about humans. So if you are willing to condemn fiction like Harry Potter the only way not to be the biggest hypocrite ever is to also condemn Stargate, BSG, Atlantis, Dr. Who, Star Trek, Star Wars, and every other series or book that deals with life outside this planet as well.

[Flyboy]

Just a small follow up btw:

Do the gods and goddesses of Wicca actually exist?

Maybe. Who are you to claim they don't? I could easily (and actually did in my previous post to you) ask the same question of you. All you can say is what you believe. There is proof enough FOR YOU. But evidentally no solid proof, or faith would not exist. We would all KNOW for certain that God existed.

If they actually exist, how do you know they exist?

Again, same thing to you. People believe what they feel is right. Much in the same way people choose a politician.

Me? I'm willing to believe in God. But I'm willing to believe in more than one God. To each their own. You have no definitive proof, nor do I. I have found a belief acceptable to me. So have you. But you cannot claim to be definitively right.

If you're tradition contradicts the tradition of another Wiccan, can they both be objectively true?

Catholicism, Protestants, Church of England, Baptism, Evo-agenlism, Christian Scientists, Jehova's witnesses, Church of Spiritiualists. All of which ORIGINATED as Christianity, and due to various diverging opinions by priests or followers became seperate versions of Christianity with difference interpretations of the bible and difference stances on big issues, eg: homosexuality.

How do you feel about believing in the religious system where you cater your religion to your desires?

Whilst I cannot say the same to you, and cannot answer on behalf of a wiccan, I can say that the head personell in each church order to the same thing in the way they interpret the bible. If I'm correct, Wiccans believe what they feel is right. Which is actually admirable.

if you cater/construct your religion according to our desires, then isn't it nothing more than your own invention?

Same thing with regards to Church orders. SOMEBODY has to interpet the bible. Heck, in the original Hebrew "Virgin" and "Young" are interchangable. It was ONE translators opinion that specified that mary was a virgin.

Is Wicca able to be shown to be false or is it all non-verifiable ideas?

Prove/Disprove Christianity. Neither can be done. It's a spiritual faith, same as Wicca.

If your spells and incantations produce results, how do you know that the power behind the results is good or not?

Well I ASSUME by the effect it has...

How do you know that there is something more sinister behind Wicca?

Assuming you mean isn't... well, they don't, but they BELIEVE it is good. Just as you believe God is good. I actually heard this WONDERFUL thesis that God was an oppressive force and Lucifer (meaning bringer of light) was fighting against God to bring us independance and free will.

Further more, Christianity is from a time when few could read, and Priests were pretty much the highest ranking indiviudals in a country, ranking higher than the highest General, and, dependiong on the priest, higher than a King. It is possible to conceed that Christianity, and talk of hell and sin, was a way of controlling people. A Government behind the Government if you will.

Why do you think that rituals dealing with candles, knives, and such are able to affect nature?

Well, assuming you actually believe in energy. You know, various forms. Heat, light what not... then Energy can be easily manipulated. Even a crystal twists energy in many ways. A lot of it I presume is simply about focusing belief, but some of it could be to do with harnessing the world's natural energy.

I however, am no expert.

[Wraith Scientist]

That evolution is a load of crap?

Evolution is a scientific fact. Mountains of evidence and data all support evolution. And why does creationism have going for it? Nothing
Heck, evolution has been observed in the wild and the laboratory many times. Ever heard of MRSA? It evolved to be resistant to antibiotics.

Over the top? It's what is taught in the bible.

Lies.

Contradictions

Come over then and find out.

If the Bible has anything to say about it, you would attack him with rocks, right?

If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die.
- Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.
- 2 Chronicles 15:13

I respect religions, I just know they're wrong.

Questions for Wiccans

Do the gods and goddesses of Wicca actually exist?
If they actually exist, how do you know they exist?
If you're tradition contradicts the tradition of another Wiccan, can they both be objectively true?
How do you feel about believing in the religious system where you cater your religion to your desires?
if you cater/construct your religion according to our desires, then isn't it nothing more than your own invention?
Is Wicca able to be shown to be false or is it all non-verifiable ideas?
If your spells and incantations produce results, how do you know that the power behind the results is good or not?
How do you know that there is something more sinister behind Wicca?
Why do you think that rituals dealing with candles, knives, and such are able to affect nature?

Wow, talk about mental partitioning. You can use arguments against other religions without applying them to your own beliefs.

It's like talking to someone out of Orwell's 1984

[spg_1983]

Over the top? It's what is taught in the bible.

I had been going to just ignore all your rehtoric as just that, unthinking zealotry, but this caught my eye and I love it when people say this.

So if the bible says it you practice and support it?

So you support selling children into slavery?

"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go free as male slaves do."

Well now a days there tens of thousands of people that still work on sundays. Do you go around killing them yourself?

"On six days work may be done, but the seventh day shall be sacred to you as the sabbath of complete rest to the LORD. Anyone who does work on that day shall be put to death."

Leviticus 25:44 says you can buy slaves from the nations around us. Do you prefer Mexico or Canada?

Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.

Leviticus 21:20 states that anyone with a defect in their vision may not approach the Altar of god. So does that mean all the millions of people and priests with glasses are commiting sacrilge and must excomunicated? What about all the men that suffer from Erectile Dysfuntion?

or who is hunchbacked or dwarfed, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles.

Leviticus 15:19-24 states no man may have contact with a woman while on her menstrual cycle. So do you go around just asking every woman you come across or do you have some special way to tell?

When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening. 20 Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. 21 Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 22 Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 23 Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening. 24 If a man lies with her and her monthly flow touches him, he will be unclean for seven days; any bed he lies on will be unclean.

Now it is an abomination to eat shellfish, but is that a bigger or lesser abomination than homosexuality?

And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you.

Now, if touching the flesh of a pig is also an abomination, should we kill all the football players?

The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. 7 And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divied, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcases; they are unclean for you.

Now here is a really important one. Almost all farmers now days practice crop rotating. Planting multiple crops in the same field in consecutive years to maximize nutrients. Now should we just burn all the fields in the world or just kill the farmers and let the fields go fallow before we go back to planting only one seed per field?

Keep my decrees. Do not mate different kinds of animals. Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.

Now if someone blasphemes do you REALLY go out and get everyone in town together to stone them to death? Or do you just do it privately?

Now the son of an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father went out among the Israelites, and a fight broke out in the camp between him and an Israelite. 11 The son of the Israelite woman blasphemed the name of the LORD with a curse; so they brough him to Moses. (His mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri the Danite.) 12 They put him in custody until the will of the LORD should be made clear to them. 13 Then the LORD said to Moses: 14 Take the blasphemer outside the camp. All those who heard him are to lay their hands on his head, and the entire assembly is to stone him. 15 Say to the Israelites: If anyone curses his God, he will be held responsible; 16 anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death.

And thats just a few. Ill let you respond to those ones first.

[Anubis69]

That evolution is a load of crap?

One thing i never understood... There's a lot of christians out there that agree with Evolution and instead of saying "the world was literally created in 7 days" they said that it was a metaphor for 7 stages of evolution etc. etc. Obviosly there's others, like yourself who follow the same religion, who still stick to the "7 days" theory or one of possibly countless other explanations...

My question is, why the difference of opinion? Surely, following the same religion and reading the very same text, christians would agree on something as fundamental as our origins?

And lastly: What do you personally believe? Creationism, is assume?

[TrustNo1]

TrustNo1,

Does your God actually exist?
If he does actually exist, how do you know he exists?
If you're tradition contradicts the tradition of another Christian, can they both be objectively true?
How do you know that there isnt something more sinister behind Christianity?

Don't just say yes or no. Prove it.

Answer the questions.

And "the bible says so" isn't proof.

An infalible book isn't proof?

Catholicism, Protestants, Church of England, Baptism, Evo-agenlism, Christian Scientists, Jehova's witnesses, Church of Spiritiualists. All of which ORIGINATED as Christianity, and due to various diverging opinions by priests or followers became seperate versions of Christianity with difference interpretations of the bible and difference stances on big issues, eg: homosexuality.

Christianity has the bible as a reference. What does Wicca have? Only the individual beliefs of it's followers. There is no Wicca bible. They make up their own religion. All of those are churches not religions. Some are right and some are wrong.

If I'm correct, Wiccans believe what they feel is right. Which is actually admirable.

What is right for one Wiccan may not be right for another, therefore Wicca is a made up religion.

Same thing with regards to Church orders. SOMEBODY has to interpet the bible. Heck, in the original Hebrew "Virgin" and "Young" are interchangable. It was ONE translators opinion that specified that mary was a virgin.

http://www.carm.org/diff/Isaiah7_14.htm

I however, am no expert.

Clearly.

Evolution is a scientific fact.

Because we've seen dinosaurs turn into men.

It evolved to be resistant to antibiotics.

Adaption does not create a new species.

- Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Old Testament.

- 2 Chronicles 15:13

A pact between God and one nation, not one religion.

So you support selling children into slavery?

Old Testament.

Well now a days there tens of thousands of people that still work on sundays. Do you go around killing them yourself?

Old Testament.

Leviticus 25:44 says you can buy slaves from the nations around us. Do you prefer Mexico or Canada?

Old Testament.

Leviticus 21:20 states that anyone with a defect in their vision may not approach the Altar of god. So does that mean all the millions of people and priests with glasses are commiting sacrilge and must excomunicated? What about all the men that suffer from Erectile Dysfuntion?

Old Testament.

Leviticus 15:19-24 states no man may have contact with a woman while on her menstrual cycle. So do you go around just asking every woman you come across or do you have some special way to tell?

Old Testament.

Now it is an abomination to eat shellfish, but is that a bigger or lesser abomination than homosexuality?

Old Testament.

Now, if touching the flesh of a pig is also an abomination, should we kill all the football players?

Old Testament.

Now here is a really important one. Almost all farmers now days practice crop rotating. Planting multiple crops in the same field in consecutive years to maximize nutrients. Now should we just burn all the fields in the world or just kill the farmers and let the fields go fallow before we go back to planting only one seed per field?

Old Testament.

Now if someone blasphemes do you REALLY go out and get everyone in town together to stone them to death? Or do you just do it privately?

Old Testament.

My question is, why the difference of opinion? Surely, following the same religion and reading the very same text, christians would agree on something as fundamental as our origins?

They don't understand that the original Hebrew word for day literally meant day not a period of years or stages. If God really did use stages then there would have been much better Hebrew words to use.

[kingshell]

Trustno1:
What do you mean by replying 'Old Testament' to all that stuff? Im not sure I follow? Do you not believe in the old testament? Or does your religion only require you to follow less than half of your 'infalliable' book? I dont mean to be rude or anything - I truly dont get what you mean by 'old testament'. I thought that if you were a Christian, then you believed in all of the Bible. For example: you clearly follow Genesis from the Old Testament; do you not follow the other parts of the old testament? I didnt think you could just pick and choose which parts you wanted to follow? Or wouldnt that be as bad as what you are accusing the Wiccans of?

Ps: Im also curious about Wiccans: everyone keeps mentioning them, but I have no idea what they believe in.

[TrustNo1]

Trustno1:
What do you mean by replying 'Old Testament' to all that stuff?

When Jesus came a new covenant was made. New rules, updates to old, new explanations and new obligations humans had to follow. Before Jesus came you had to follow the law to be a good person and to be righteous. Now that Jesus has come to get to heaven you have to believe in him, you don't have to follow the old laws. Jesus did away with punishment because he took everyone's punishment for them when he died on the cross. Some of the old laws tell you how to live morally and what to believe but the punishment has changed.

Ps: Im also curious about Wiccans: everyone keeps mentioning them, but I have no idea what they believe in.

The existence of a supreme divine power known as "The One," or "The All"
"The All" is not separate from the universe, but part of it.
That from "The All" came the god and goddess.
That the god and goddess are manifested in various forms in the universe.
Nature worship and, therefore, environmental concerns are high.
Divinity is within
Biological evolution.
That there are different and valid paths to finding the truth about God.
That all creatures have a life force, a soul.
The male and female principles are in balance throughout the universe.
The equality of the sexes.
That each person has male and female aspects that need to be balanced.
Multiple reincarnations
The teaching of karma
The practice of rituals designed to attune Wiccans to the natural life forces.
That upon death a person is released back to a place called Summerland
That different paths to spirituality are acceptable as long as they don't hurt anyone
Personal responsibility for one's actions.

http://www.carm.org/wicca/whatiswicca.htm