"Hyperdimensional Katrina": Scientific Evidence

[Crichton]

Occam's Razor sucks.

(Theoretical medievil debate)

Why do people get sick??

Is it because they were evil and god made them sick??

Or is it because of these "crazy microscopic little invisible germ things that infect your body on a molecular level and are invisible to the naked eye??"

[uknesvuinng]

Occam's Razor sucks.

(Theoretical medievil debate)

Why do people get sick??

Is it because they were evil and god made them sick??

Or is it because of these "crazy microscopic little invisible germ things that infect your body on a molecular level and are invisible to the naked eye??"

Generally, one looks at the evidence BEFORE trying to apply ye olde "razor". It's also a good reminder that scientific "facts" aren't perfect and subject to change as we advance. Also remember that a fact is defined as something experts agree is true.

Occam's razor doesn't necessarily make the theory true. It just allows us to decide the most likely and logical choice. Evidence will continue to be gathered and possibilities previously overlooked can always come back into play. However, I'm gonna side with the experts that say a common oceanic cycle is responsible for the increased hurricane activity, and not ideas involving questionable computer graphics and supposedly "hidden" laws of physics. And unless some serious evidence start showing otherwise, I'm gonna stick with it.

[Erised]

Occam's Razor sucks.

(Theoretical medievil debate)

Why do people get sick??

Is it because they were evil and god made them sick??

Or is it because of these "crazy microscopic little invisible germ things that infect your body on a molecular level and are invisible to the naked eye??"

exactly! I mean like.. my baby sister is sick. And what she's evil and god made her sick? haha. An evil baby. Yea right!

she's got a cold virus!!! My poor sweetie


And Katrina is a result of us stupid people warming up oceans by one degree! Stop being so damn selfish and stop worrying about economy (whoever is in charge of all this) and save our planet!

[uknesvuinng]

And Katrina is a result of us stupid people warming up oceans by one degree! Stop being so damn selfish and stop worrying about economy (whoever is in charge of all this) and save our planet!

That was the point of the discussion a few posts ago. The current levels of global warming aren't enough to affect hurricanes in any meaningful way. It's like a drop in the ocean.

[Crichton]

Occam's razor doesn't necessarily make the theory true. It just allows us to decide the most likely and logical choice.

I agree on some level with this. But at the same time, I can't help but think that assuming anything scientific based on logic is a major downfall. I don't think we should assume ANYTHING, definetly not the simplest choice. How many things are so complex we can't fully grasp them yet? A lot. Would Occam's razor point to string theory, or dark matter? I think science should strive to look for the illogical just as much, if not more than the logical. Something we DON'T KNOW about wouldn't seem logical until we KNEW it.

[Dr Weir]

I'm 100% sure it's a natural event, it's impossible to produce anything like this artifically.

[uknesvuinng]

I agree on some level with this. But at the same time, I can't help but think that assuming anything scientific based on logic is a major downfall. I don't think we should assume ANYTHING, definetly not the simplest choice. How many things are so complex we can't fully grasp them yet? A lot. Would Occam's razor point to string theory, or dark matter? I think science should strive to look for the illogical just as much, if not more than the logical. Something we DON'T KNOW about wouldn't seem logical until we KNEW it.

The point, though, is that we can never truly "know" anything because we cannot know for sure we have all the facts. If you wanna get philisophical, we can't even know if we're percieving the facts correctly. Ultimately, you have to accept an idea by faith, specifically having faith that enough evidence has been gathered to render a reasonably accurate picture of what's happening in a system. That idea is used in further studies until it finds itself disproved by evidence previously unknown.

Science is a method to observe evidence and make determinations and build knowledge based on that evidence and scientific techniques. It's not the end-all, be-all of knowledge, because logically you have to assume that there could be information unavailable that can change even what we call "laws". Science is not equipped to handle ideas that it can't test or observe. Logically, the inability to prove an idea does not make the idea false, nor does the inability to disprove an idea make the idea true. Concepts that aren't testable or observable fall outside the scope of science.

[Qtyled]

I got it!
It was the touchstone!

[TrustNo1]

Of course, then there is the third option: it is all a coincidence...

Three coincidences make a conspiracy...

[in circles]

And to think I believed Government conspiracies disappeared with the X-Files.

[Three PhDs]

I agree on some level with this. But at the same time, I can't help but think that assuming anything scientific based on logic is a major downfall. I don't think we should assume ANYTHING, definetly not the simplest choice. How many things are so complex we can't fully grasp them yet? A lot. Would Occam's razor point to string theory, or dark matter? I think science should strive to look for the illogical just as much, if not more than the logical. Something we DON'T KNOW about wouldn't seem logical until we KNEW it.

Occams razor isn't used to produce new theories though, it's used to explain phenomenom. Besides, it's far more a philosophical thing than scientific anyway.

[Crichton]

Besides, it's far more a philosophical thing than scientific anyway.

Totally agree. I just felt I had to point that out when I see people trying to discredit things simply because they're not simple.

[Rail'k]

I'm 100% sure it's a natural event, it's impossible to produce anything like this artifically.

well i would gust have to say nothing is impossible 200 years ago they thought space flight was imposible but look at things now

[Jeffer]

BAHAHAHAHAAHHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AAHHAHAHAASBDBGAJKDHAJKHSHHSHAHAHAHHAHHASDHASKLDHAKLHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

THat is all I have to say on the matter.

I agree I am also surprised Bush hasn't tried to launch a full scale nuclear attack on the Weather

[SeaBee]

OK. I will agree that there is a cycle involved in the weather patterns that produce stronger hurricanes, but I will also insist that global warming is adding to that effect. Measurements of the arctic ice sheet, taken over a number of years, show that the ice is shrinking, and the total area is now the smallest it has been for hundreds of years. This is because the planet is getting warmer. Sea levels are rising, the water is getting warmer, whole eco systems are being seriously affected.
Yes, large amounts of greenhouse gasses are given off naturally by the processes of life and death in the natural world. And if that was all there was the planet could cope pretty well. But mankind, by burning fossel fuels and de-forestation, is tipping the balance. The world is warming up, and hurricanes are getting stronger. This may not be the fault of global warming yet, but it will be.
When will the people of the world, esp. it's leaders do something about it? When we have to invent a new scale for hurricanes, because 1-5 isn't enough? When every costal city less than 15 metres above sea level has to be abandoned to the rising water? When does global warming become an issue that requires attention? When it's too late or when something can be done?
If somebody finds a timebomb ticking in the street the authorities send in the bomb disposal squad to defuse it and stop destruction of life and property. The timer is ticking on the global warming bomb, and unless the thing is defused now, it may soon be too late for us all.