Why was the stargate under Air Force control?

[StargateWatcher]

Correct Boston, MA, USA. I get why AF is in charge in Stargate but I don't want the AF to be in charge in my book. If this program was real I would feel safer with US Special Operations Command SOCOM in charge over the USAF. USAF could be in charge of spaceships or the fighter jets like the F-302's but on ground missions or combat missions I think the Seals or Army Rangers/Special Forces, or even Marine Infantry to be in charge rather than an archaeologist, alien (Teal'c/Jonas), and an astrophysicist, but she is kick ass, she is great. I would feel safe with O'Neil though, he is a very cool guy. That is just my take and why in my books they won't be in charge of the most important and coolest device known to man, even if it is a total secret as it is or at least was before NID got involved.

cool; nice to make the acquiantance of another Massie; well, I think that's cool b/c as a Stargate fanfic author, you can correct what you see as a glaring deficiency in the show ;-); I alo write fanfci and like to use the power of the pen to change what i feel are bad moves in the show; the US Navy would probably want a role too operating Earth's space vessels; yeah O'Neill was in USAF special ops; impressed you know that there is a distinction between US Army Rangers and US Special Forces; not every Stargate fan does know that Rangers are a special operations force as opposed to Special Forces as in Green Berets

speaking of those guys, you should read my friend AlexanderDs' Stargaate fics New Dawn and Aphelion; he writes from the perspective of a former Army Rangers.Army Special Forces commissioned officer who's fought in 3 wars, as well as an engineer who currently manages multi-projects for DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency); he is also a vaery talented fanfic writer--the 1000 reviews for each of his stories in the=series attest to that; he uses the aforementioned military units for engaging in ground combat; he also answers every review for his stories, and he is very happy to help writers with the scientific/engineering and military aspects of their stories

[jfarrell327]

cool; nice to make the acquiantance of another Massie; well, I think that's cool b/c as a Stargate fanfic author, you can correct what you see as a glaring deficiency in the show ;-); I alo write fanfci and like to use the power of the pen to change what i feel are bad moves in the show; the US Navy would probably want a role too operating Earth's space vessels; yeah O'Neill was in USAF special ops; impressed you know that there is a distinction between US Army Rangers and US Special Forces; not every Stargate fan does know that Rangers are a special operations force as opposed to Special Forces as in Green Berets

speaking of those guys, you should read my friend AlexanderDs' Stargaate fics New Dawn and Aphelion; he writes from the perspective of a former Army Rangers.Army Special Forces commissioned officer who's fought in 3 wars, as well as an engineer who currently manages multi-projects for DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency); he is also a vaery talented fanfic writer--the 1000 reviews for each of his stories in the=series attest to that; he uses the aforementioned military units for engaging in ground combat; he also answers every review for his stories, and he is very happy to help writers with the scientific/engineering and military aspects of their stories

Yeah I know a lot about the military. I worked for the Coast Guard as a civilian and still do. One of my friends is an Army Ranger then one of my friends was an officer in the special forces and another in the AF as a TACP airman. I know a lot of people in the military from Commanders in the CG to Generals in the Air Force as well as many other commissioned officers. I can't join the military now because I had an inhaler and had to wait 3 years for the CG to apply again but by now I don't want to I plan on going for the FBI or some other cool Federal Agency.

Oh and one of my past Science teachers worked for DARPA once upon a time

[Aesop]

Neither can any other military group.

Well, I don't know about that. I mean, given the nature of the program, it seems like special operations ground forces would have been ideal (Rangers, SEALs, etc) who have more reconnaissance and combat experience than Pararescuemen theoretically have.

I always thought it should have at least been a JTF project, not bogarted by one branch. I mean, I think the Navy would have been better suited for operating the 303 and 304's, in theory either the Air Force or the Navy could have operated the 302's, and the various components of the Army and Marines would have been ideal for ground units (some where - but the flagship team lead by an Air Force Colonel? Odd).

[garhkal]

I also found it strange we never really saw many of the other branches till later on and usually in support roles. Heck i can't remember seeing any navy personnel in the show, though we did hear some naval ships (during Anubis's attack) being blown up.

[jfarrell327]

I also found it strange we never really saw many of the other branches till later on and usually in support roles. Heck i can't remember seeing any navy personnel in the show, though we did hear some naval ships (during Anubis's attack) being blown up.

True, the Army or Marines should've been the ones on the ground, air force or navy could've taken the ships. Navy Seals could've helped out in ground combat as well. I think a team or two of the Marines should've been on the ships like the Prometheus or Daedalus.

[garhkal]

That it would. Heck i felt that all the bridge crew for the 303 and 304s should have been navy with the troops being marines/army. AF for the 302 pilots.

[thekillman]

I always thought it should have at least been a JTF project, not bogarted by one branch. I mean, I think the Navy would have been better suited for operating the 303 and 304's, in theory either the Air Force or the Navy could have operated the 302's, and the various components of the Army and Marines would have been ideal for ground units (some where - but the flagship team lead by an Air Force Colonel? Odd).

While true, in any reality, for space combat we'd simply see a new branch. Space is more like Air Force than Navy (given the 3-dimensional nature of space). Like the Air Force branched off to become it's own thing with aircraft, a Space force would branch off to become it's own thing.

it may seem obvious to say navy is better because they're more experienced with big craft, but that's also where the comparison ends. Combat is not 2D or 2.5D like aircraft. Hell, if we include realistic space battles it would actually be 4D (a battle in time due to lightspeed lag).

[Aesop]

While true, in any reality, for space combat we'd simply see a new branch. Space is more like Air Force than Navy (given the 3-dimensional nature of space). Like the Air Force branched off to become it's own thing with aircraft, a Space force would branch off to become it's own thing.

it may seem obvious to say navy is better because they're more experienced with big craft, but that's also where the comparison ends. Combat is not 2D or 2.5D like aircraft. Hell, if we include realistic space battles it would actually be 4D (a battle in time due to lightspeed lag).

That's a good point.

Perhaps, if a new branch were created, they would draw from Navy pilots since essentially they would draw from both aspects. I would imagine it would be prudent for both conduct and tactics aboard capital ships to be akin to that on Naval vessels, but like you said, the aeronautical expertise of the pilots would benefit them for engagements in space.

That all being said, I think some Navy personnel (submariners) have some three-dimensional tactical experience.

[jfarrell327]

I don't think either of them are experience enough to fly a space ship, since well who is? I think that flying a spaceship is a lot easier than flying a plane or the navy in their ships. The spaceships we see like the Daedalus or Prometheus have the vastness of space and the controls seem a lot easier it looks like they just a plot a course and its on auto-pilot but when in combat they don't even move unless its to jump into hyperspace. The F-302's however probably wouldn't be much harder than a F-15 without the G's so Navy and Air Force can do that easily. I still think for combat you should have the guys trained for combat there, Marines would do fine for security teams on the ships. Navy or Air Force could just man the ships.

I do agree with you though on making a new branch but most likely it'd be secretive like Stargate Command so most likely it'd be a black project or a special access program. I doubt the President would publicly announce we made our own spaceships with just our technology and materials the world would be pretty upset.

[thekillman]

I don't think either of them are experience enough to fly a space ship, since well who is? I think that flying a spaceship is a lot easier than flying a plane or the navy in their ships.

Nope. If you run out of fuel in the air, you can always glide to land. If you run out of fuel on the ocean, you'll stay afloat. if you run out of fuel in space, you're dead. Space is far, far more unforgiving than any terrestrial combat. Also, considering space has ideal firing conditions, you'll be firing with lasers from afar, at lightseconds distance. making it not just a battle in space, but also in time. Except where normally you have a few milliseconds to track your enemy, you'll aways see where your enemy was a few seconds ago. (or minutes)

for both conduct and tactics aboard capital ships to be akin to that on Naval vessels,

I don't think a spaceship and a naval vessel have enough in common to say the navy really has much of a place in it. you'd be looking at radically different designs, layouts, tactics even, systems etc. Well maybe a submarine would be the closest analog to what life on a spaceship would be like, but with the fighting etc of a fighter jet.


So it would be best to train people for the job of fighting in space in stead of trying to shoehorn any real branch into it. As to the SGC itself, i think just about any branch can bring something to the table.

[jfarrell327]

Nope. If you run out of fuel in the air, you can always glide to land. If you run out of fuel on the ocean, you'll stay afloat. if you run out of fuel in space, you're dead. Space is far, far more unforgiving than any terrestrial combat. Also, considering space has ideal firing conditions, you'll be firing with lasers from afar, at lightseconds distance. making it not just a battle in space, but also in time. Except where normally you have a few milliseconds to track your enemy, you'll aways see where your enemy was a few seconds ago. (or minutes)

I was talking about physically flying the ship not what life on the ship would be like.

[thekillman]

I was talking about physically flying the ship not what life on the ship would be like.

Then i think it's a matter of getting accustomed to it. In a sense it's easy because F=m*a rules space, but it's also difficult since F=m*a rules space. You see, in a 3D space, if you thrust in the x direction you have to thrust in the -x direction to slow down. You can't make turns and stuff like in the air. So if you want to go back, you have to fully cancel out your speed and then build up a new one in the right direction. While there's much greater freedom (e.g. you could fly your ship sideways) there's also greater constraint (your ship prefers to go into the direction you're already in), unlike an aircraft which can just push off against the air with flaps to change it's direction.

[Aesop]

I don't think a spaceship and a naval vessel have enough in common to say the navy really has much of a place in it. you'd be looking at radically different designs, layouts, tactics even, systems etc. Well maybe a submarine would be the closest analog to what life on a spaceship would be like, but with the fighting etc of a fighter jet.

So it would be best to train people for the job of fighting in space in stead of trying to shoehorn any real branch into it. As to the SGC itself, i think just about any branch can bring something to the table.

I agree.

The thing is, the 304 functions like an aircraft carrier in just about every respect. So in spite of the fact that operating the vessel in space would be substantially different than nautical operation, it makes sense that daily shipboard operations be conducted as they would be on an aircraft carrier. Sure, maybe having a pilot as a helmsman might make sense but to me it makes the most sense to have the commander of the ship be someone with a naval background, perhaps a captain or admiral who had experience commanding a ship or battle group in the Navy.

I agree that all of the branches have important assets to offer, and I wish that had been touched on more throughout all three of the series. Maybe if the series had continued further into the 2010's then we could have seen that expanded more, maybe with such things as the Air Force operating drones and the Army or Marines providing some sort of QRF. To further update the military to correspond with the militaries of the 2010's would have made an interesting backdrop.

[thekillman]

I agree.
[...]

I agree that all of the branches have important assets to offer, and I wish that had been touched on more throughout all three of the series. Maybe if the series had continued further into the 2010's then we could have seen that expanded more, maybe with such things as the Air Force operating drones and the Army or Marines providing some sort of QRF. To further update the military to correspond with the militaries of the 2010's would have made an interesting backdrop.

Thinking a bit more about it, i think the idea of drawing from a military branch specifically is irrelevant. There would probably be some kind of Taskforce or so (not sure on the terminology) that draws people in based upon knowledge, education and experience to custom staff the ships as needed. There would probably be a some overlap here and there, but in many cases it would be just as prudent to get fresh people and train them for their specific job, rather than try and shoehorn experienced people into a position where their experience may harm them rather than help.

I think that for the ship commander, air force personnel would still be best because their thinking is heavily 3D based and so, would more easily adapt to having a slightly bigger machine under their wing than a naval captain would have to change his (at best 2.5D) thinking, tactics and heavily earth-based combat. IE, in space, there is no horizon (unlike for a ship).

Other than that, personnel is free to be picked. Pilots(airforce/navy) for the F-302's, just about any airbase-trained personnel for the hangars (it would almost certainly be different from regular naval retrieval anyway, so there's no specific trait that gives navy an advantage), specifically trained XenoEngineers to deal with the alien technology, etc etc etc. I don't think navy personnel has any real advantage for space travel, but they'd be just another pool to draw people from. Same for Army.

[jfarrell327]

If it was real, I think it should be run by civilian leaders. I think congress even if it was only a committee who knew, would want a civilian to be in charge since people may have a problem with it being strictly military...