How powerful is the Stargate universe?

[darth_timon]

In the past I have argued for the Gateverse to beat the likes of the Federation, Klingons etc, but I am far too weary to explain why right now!

[thekillman]

In the past I have argued for the Gateverse to beat the likes of the Federation, Klingons etc, but I am far too weary to explain why right now!

I don't think it would be a very easy fight. Stargate can pick it's battles, Trek can win it's battles. It then comes down purely to tactics.

[aretood2]

Star Wars is Industrial. In the End the USA in WWII "won" because of its industry. Logistics wins wars, and Star Wars has more logistics than anyone, even the Andromeda Universe that spans 3 galaxies. They have entire planet wide cities!

Star Trek has technology though. They can build large stations that can house even Galaxy Class starships. They can technobable their way out of anything. But their technobable is nothing next to the power of the force (I just had to say it ).

Stargate has....well....they have shields and speed. That's it. Asgard and Ori Weapons might be able to stand next to Star Wars...but not if Star Wars just spams them with ships.

BSG *laughs*
The old one can....um....yeah. The new one can maybe depress Star Wars into committing suicide?

Andromeda. It might stand toe to toe with Star Trek. But the mass production of Star Wars will destroy them...not to mention that the Warrior race is nothing next to the Yuuzhan Vong. Don't forget the Yuuzhan Vong. Until last April, they were part of Star Wars.

Though, Star Trek does have one trump card, the Q.

[aretood2]

I don't think it would be a very easy fight. Stargate can pick it's battles, Trek can win it's battles. It then comes down purely to tactics.

I say logistics. And Wars has Logistics. The British had technology and tactics, but the Zulu said "I think not!" because of logistics.

[StargateMillennium]

Q may be powerful but he also seems to have no interest in the ST universe, as the Ascended do not in Stargate.

In the first episode of Next Gen, didn't Q stop the Enterprise and put its crew on trial or something like that saying that humans are too dangerous to be let loose in the galaxy?

[Gatefan1976]

In the first episode of Next Gen, didn't Q stop the Enterprise and put its crew on trial or something like that saying that humans are too dangerous to be let loose in the galaxy?

A savage, childlike species I believe he called us

[thekillman]

In the first episode of Next Gen, didn't Q stop the Enterprise and put its crew on trial or something like that saying that humans are too dangerous to be let loose in the galaxy?

My knowledge of Trek is rusty and incomplete. Still, Q putting the Enterprise on trial sounds to me more like "potential antagonist" for Trek than potential allies.

I say logistics. And Wars has Logistics. The British had technology and tactics, but the Zulu said "I think not!" because of logistics.

Obviously there's more stuff to war than just industry. SW's extensive use of Droids and fast hyperspace to me already was a big "duh" to logistics. Star Wars has not just the firepower, but also the capacity to dish out a ton of ships with a ton of firepower and can do so at great FTL speeds.

[thekillman]

[COLOR="#000080"]
Star Trek has technology though. They can build large stations that can house even Galaxy Class starships. They can technobable their way out of anything. But their technobable is nothing next to the power of the force (I just had to say it ).

Stargate has....well....they have shields and speed. That's it. Asgard and Ori Weapons might be able to stand next to Star Wars...but not if Star Wars just spams them with ships.

BSG *laughs*
The old one can....um....yeah. The new one can maybe depress Star Wars into committing suicide?

1: Wars has just as much if not better technology. They also don't rely upon the most unstable material imaginable (antimatter) to generate power.They can build stations people mistake for moons. I think that trumps ST's ability to build big by several orders of magnitude. According to the US government, the construction of a death star would consume several earth's worth of resources. This isn't even a joke, it was a serious proposal filed by US citizens (and they can vote and then the sentate (?) has to discuss it).

The death star construction alone would require dozens of Earth-level and beyond industrial and logistic capacity. In stargate, we can pump out a 200-500m (depending on who you ask) ship per year.

2: Don't underestimate speed. It could very well mean Trek vs Gate is a perpetual stalemate. Mostly because if a Trek fleet leaves to fight, Stargate can hit-and-run any planet not in their reach six times (or so) before the fleet either gets home or to it's target. Gate simply has a much better capacity to pick it's battles. And unlike Trek, beaming never fails except to extraordinarily advanced races.

3: BSG was meant to be based upon realistic tech with an absolute minimum of technobabble. It's the closest we get to realistic of all the shows mentioned. However given War's absolutely crazy energy levels it simply can't compete.

[aretood2]

I've wondered about the tech issue between Star Wars and Star Trek. It's hard to compare though. Star Wars seems to have surge protectors to avoid exploding computer consoles each time the outer hull gets hit by something. (A joke, you have to admit that's pretty stupid though).

I think a Galaxy Class Starship is on par with a Star Destroyer as far as leveling a planet goes. But Star Wars has Ion Canons that can be compared to the Breen's EMP canons used in Deep Space 9. The Federation and Friends had a hard time dealing with that. So it's safe to say that Star Wars has mastered certain technologies that would give Star Trek a run for its money.

The Borg would be able to deal with that sort of thing though...But they seem weak minded enough to fall for any Jedi Mind trick a padawan could come up with. But I do wonder how the New Republic or the Empire would fare with the Borg.

[Peterking72]

I love SG and ST too, but I too would put my money on SW.

You mention that ST Galaxy Class starships are on par with the Star Destroyers. What about then with the 17-19 km long Super Star Destroyers. They maybe more expensive to dish out than regular Star Destroyers but there were at least 5 or 6 of them, 3 that were in the ROTJ.
Then there are superweapons that are still canon, like the Galaxy Gun, The Centerpoint Station, Shawken Device (It's a one off, but if it were detonated and let's assume it would've worked, it would've destroyed the entire universe. Of course this device were a last ditch effort, when everything else failed and nothing matters any more. Nice, huh.)
I guess that wouldn't bother ascended beings or Jedi who become one with the Force or the Q, but every other living thing would end. Kind of like an universe scale Dakara Device, the only major difference being that it would also destroy planets and stars alike. Don't know what's the deal about black holes though. Or after everything ends all matter is sucked into a big black hole, overloads and kaboom, new universe. Forget that, it's for geeks to speculate on that.

What matters is SW has the tech, the power the mass production, the Force to vaporize almost any opposing party wherever they may be.

SG has extreme luck on their side, but every luck runs out eventually...

[thekillman]

What matters is SW has the tech, the power the mass production, the Force to vaporize almost any opposing party wherever they may be.

Yea. SG has ZPM's. The Death Star has a powersource that surpasses that and requires no scavenging of dead alien races. I think that shows just how much further Wars is.

Not to mention the galactic state of things. The Wars galaxy is largely united. Trek has a hugely divided galaxy.

The Borg would be able to deal with that sort of thing though...But they seem weak minded enough to fall for any Jedi Mind trick a padawan could come up with. But I do wonder how the New Republic or the Empire would fare with the Borg.

In star trek the whole phase thing seems to be a weakness of the federation's shields that the borg exploit. Star Wars just mostly seems to pepper things with firepower rather than rely on clever technobabble. I think raw laws of physics are a lot more reliable than technoquirks.

[P-90_177]

I've wondered about the tech issue between Star Wars and Star Trek. It's hard to compare though. Star Wars seems to have surge protectors to avoid exploding computer consoles each time the outer hull gets hit by something. (A joke, you have to admit that's pretty stupid though).

I think a Galaxy Class Starship is on par with a Star Destroyer as far as leveling a planet goes. But Star Wars has Ion Canons that can be compared to the Breen's EMP canons used in Deep Space 9. The Federation and Friends had a hard time dealing with that. So it's safe to say that Star Wars has mastered certain technologies that would give Star Trek a run for its money.

The Borg would be able to deal with that sort of thing though...But they seem weak minded enough to fall for any Jedi Mind trick a padawan could come up with. But I do wonder how the New Republic or the Empire would fare with the Borg.

The Borg aren't weak minded. They're all one mind. So any Jedi would find their mind tricks pointless.

[Gatefan1976]

The Borg aren't weak minded. They're all one mind. So any Jedi would find their mind tricks pointless.

True, but tricking a Borg to think the connection to the hive was severed? Not too much of a stretch IMHO.

[thekillman]

The Borg aren't weak minded. They're all one mind. So any Jedi would find their mind tricks pointless.

It may be me, but isn't it the exact opposite? It should be child's play to hijack a borg drone. They're already prepped and used to being ordered around. being a surrogate collective shouldn't be that hard.

Furthermore, unlike the Federation the Empire has a long history of dealing with robots and cyborgs. If anyone had the capacity to defeat the borg, they have.

[Peterking72]

I don't know if any of you have read up on the Galaxy Gun, so here you go:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Galaxy_Gun
I don't think any other weapon from any other show can beat that. Sure you might get lucky and destroy one missile, but what if they fire a dozen. No equipment can track a dozen missiles in hyperspace so eventually one or two will reach it's target. Plus they can send as many as they have space for on the ship and the Galaxy Gun is a very large ship.

There is a forecast how would each universe fare against this menace in my opinion (Be reminded that the Galaxy Gun is protected by the largest fleet the Empire ever assembled, so direct attack against it would be a suicide, plus the Emperor can sense the future, so he would foresee any threat):

Stargate: Let's say that they discover the Galaxy Gun's (GG) location. They good at discovering things I give them that. What they don't know is what it's capable of, so it's only a half good intel. They can't move on that, so they have to wait until the other side fires the weapon to see what it does. Let's see they manage to sneak in a cargo ship cloaked close enough to witness the firing. They would see a large, ship sized missile leave the GG's acceleration tube and then jumping to hyperspace. Hour's later they would get reports on of one of the Free Jaffa planets destruction. They decide that it's time to mobilize and Carter whips up some sort of gizmo that can track a missile in hyperspace. They utilize it after the GG fires another missile. They track it and with heavy cost and lots of ship loss (Mainly Ha'tak's of course) they manage to destroy it before it hits it's target. Carter has another genius idea. Let's destroy the GG by blowing up the star system it's inhabiting. Let's say for luck's sake that the star system is uninhabited, so there would be no collateral. An ease of mind for the SG team. They prep the gates for deployment. One at a black hole the other one in orbit near the star. Everything seems to go well and unnoticed by the enemy and that's where they wrong. By sensing the future the Emperor foresees the star's explosion and his fleets demise so he moves in order to prevent it. He sends out few star destroyers to intercept the deployment on this side. The deployment team gets vaporized before they could realize what hit them. Before their demise the Emperor searches the mind of one of the deployment team and discovers the location of Earth. He immediately sends a dozen missiles in a short success to destroy it. He also takes care of the cloaked cargo ship he allowed to remain "hidden" witnessing the firings before they can send intel to Earth. Carter waiting on the black hole side of the operation assumes that something is wrong on the other side. Decides to leave for Earth. On the way her gizmo senses multiple objects (the missiles) moving in hyperspace. She realizes they can't track them all and they have no idea about where they heading yet. They track one of them and again by heavy losses manage to prevent Earth's destruction. That's when the other five missiles exit from hyperspace and with no opposing force to stop them obliterate Earth completely. (5 missiles is an overkill of course, when one is enough for a planet). With a crippled ship Carter manages to leave the solar system and heads to the next starsystem with a stargate. With a zpm connected she manages to open a gate to the Pegasus galaxy and arrives with the crew to Atlantis. The team in Atlantis is devastated by the news of Earth's destruction. They decide it's time for a direct attack. They manage to convince the Wraith to help them and also the traveler's. The day of the attack has arrived (which has been also foreseen by the Emperor of course). They move in to position gathering the fleet at the edge of the starsystem. They are ready. 25 hive ships, 8 wraith cruisers, 3 of the remaining Deadalus class ships powered by zpm's and 10 traveler cruisers ships. They send in a cargo ship to survey the area before they begin the attack. The cargo ship reports back that they only see the GG above the planet and sense no other energy signature. They launch the attack arriving near to the planet which the GG orbits. After a few seconds the entire fleet of the Empire exits from hyperspace (they were waiting on an off location for the Emperor's command to attack). The hundreds of Star destroyers, frigatte's and the Super Star Destroyers obliterate the fleet in a matter of minutes. No survivors except the one's that remained at Atlantis. The losses of the Emperor's fleet is minimal (few star destroyer's and frigattes and tie-fighters). The end.

Startrek: Well things play out much the same only with different species and planets and the fact that Trek Ships cant capture, let alone track or follow the missiles that the GG fires because they don't have fast enough ships for that. So Earth is destroyed, again, as well much of the other Federation planets. The Klingons don't give a s***, they may even join the Empire's side. The remaining Federation fleet (which is also a sizeable) launches an attack on the GG. The Emperor knows that this time he may have to utilize a different tactic, so he leaves his fleet at place around the GG in defensive positions. The Federation fleet arrives. The battle ensues. The Federation fleet is holding it's "ground" despite their masively inferior firepower compared to the the Emperor's fleet. They destroy a couple of star destroyers even giving a hard time to some of the super star destroyers and that's when they have the big surprise. The GG fires 30 missiles in success. They don't know the other sides intentions so the Federation ships remain in formation, ready to fight the missiles too if they have to before they go to hyperspace where they can't follow them. That's when the other surprise comes, they don't go into hyperspace instead they lock on target and take out 30 of the Federations strongest ships along with the ones in their vicinity, totalling in around 100-120 ships. The remaining fleet struggling slowly losing the fight against the massive fleet of the Empire. None survives. The losses of the empire are more scarce this time but still well inside the margin where it doesn't really matter.

OK, what other Scifi universes remain: Andromeda and Battlestar Galactica. Give me a break, they not even in the also running section.

Babylon 5: That would be an interesting fight but still no contest for the Empire.

And we ran out of mentionable scifi shows spare Doctor Who which I intentionally left for last. As much as I love Doctor Who, with David Tennant being my all time favourite doctor I can't pit the two shows against each other because it would be totally unfair towards SW to do that. I mean the compiled forces of Daleks, Cybermen, Time Lords and Sontarans would beat the crap out of the Empire. Not to mention the Doctor with his wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey impossible science. It's fun to watch DW, but most of it's science is utterly unbeliavable and down right impossible.
So SW wins the contest hands down, if we count DW out.

The End.