Stigma being a Stargate Fan (or fan of any Scifi really)

[SF_and_Coffee]

In my mind? Yeah. In most people's? Probably not. To most people making a show about "reality" is more worthwhile than making a show about aliens and spaceships and what not. I think the majority of people just find it all a bit silly, actors in makeup pretending to be aliens even more so.

I disagree; most people I know can't stand most reality shows. They aren't considered "worthwhile", they're simply recognized for what they are: cheap, compared to making scripted shows. The television production gurus have figured out this lovely, cheap way to exploit the exhibitionist tendencies of the lowest common denominator for profit, making shows out of it and selling them to networks, and because that's almost all there is lately, advertisers buy ad time on them and people watch them because it's what's available. Most people I know would actually rather watch scripted television, but of course that costs more to make. So there isn't as much of it made. As for actors in makeup pretending to be aliens, most current scifi doesn't have much of that, and the Stargate franchise certainly didn't have a lot of it compared to earlier shows like the Trek franchise, Babylon 5 or Farscape. Yet those were all fairly popular shows.

[KEK]

I disagree; most people I know can't stand most reality shows. They aren't considered "worthwhile", they're simply recognized for what they are: cheap, compared to making scripted shows. The television production gurus have figured out this lovely, cheap way to exploit the exhibitionist tendencies of the lowest common denominator for profit, making shows out of it and selling them to networks, and because that's almost all there is lately, advertisers buy ad time on them and people watch them because it's what's available. Most people I know would actually rather watch scripted television, but of course that costs more to make. So there isn't as much of it made.

There isn't much scripted television being made? That's an absolutely absurd suggestion. There are far more high quality scripted shows being made than anyone who isn't unemployed could ever hope to keep up to date with. I'm not going to debate what the people who you know are into, but on the whole the numbers speak for themselves. Besides, I never said people think reality TV is more worthwhile than scripted telly, I said most people find it more worthwhile than science fiction. Science fiction with aliens and space ships even more so.

As for actors in makeup pretending to be aliens, most current scifi doesn't have much of that, and the Stargate franchise certainly didn't have a lot of it compared to earlier shows like the Trek franchise, Babylon 5 or Farscape. Yet those were all fairly popular shows.

Babylon 5 and Farscape were never popular shows. Trek was almost a genre in itself, a national institution, much like Dr Who in the UK. You can forgive those shows for being cheap and silly - because that's just what they are, and always have been. If you tried to make something along those lines that was new, for a mainstream audience, it would fall flat on it's face. The only place that sort of TV does well is channels like Syfy - and it's even dying (dead?) there.

[Brother Freyr]

My guess is that any stigma is encountered by teenagers and young adults, rather than those of us who are, eh, of a certain age. My experience is that once you're in a career, no one particuarly cares what you enjoy on television. (I'm not sure it mattered earlier, either, but maybe online social networks have increased peer pressure on young people's entertainment choices.) Your friends might be interested, but only because they're your friends. I've been a SFF fan most of my life, with plenty of friends who don't share my taste, and this notion of a stigma is alien (ha ha) to me.

[SF_and_Coffee]

There isn't much scripted television being made? That's an absolutely absurd suggestion.

Compare the ratio of scripted shows vs reality shows being made in, say, 1995 with that same ratio today. To suggest that it hasn't changed is what would be absurd. I don't know about you, but I remember 1995 pretty well.

There are far more high quality scripted shows being made than anyone who isn't unemployed could ever hope to keep up to date with.

Something tells me we probably have very different ideas on how to define "high quality", "scripted", or possibly both.

I'm not going to debate what the people who you know are into, but on the whole the numbers speak for themselves.

Shop in a store whose line of merchandise is composed 90% of socks and shoes, then tell me that the popularity of socks and shoes explains why that store sells hardly any shirts...

Besides, I never said people think reality TV is more worthwhile than scripted telly, I said most people find it more worthwhile than science fiction. Science fiction with aliens and space ships even more so.

I'm not going to debate what the people who you know are into...

Babylon 5 and Farscape were never popular shows.

Popular enough to have several seasons...

Trek was almost a genre in itself, a national institution, much like Dr Who in the UK.

Neither of which would fit your definition of "popular", I'm sure...

You can forgive those shows for being cheap and silly - because that's just what they are, and always have been.

Okay, I'm done. You think science fiction is cheap and silly, so you hang out on the forum of a site dedicated to a science fiction show and to the genre as a whole, dissing said genre to its fans? Why exactly are you here?

Why not go watch whatever televised talent show is currently thrilling the lowest common denominator in whatever country you inhabit, and leave the rest of us in peace?

[SF_and_Coffee]

My guess is that any stigma is encountered by teenagers and young adults, rather than those of us who are, eh, of a certain age. My experience is that once you're in a career, no one particuarly cares what you enjoy on television. (I'm not sure it mattered earlier, either, but maybe online social networks have increased peer pressure on young people's entertainment choices.) Your friends might be interested, but only because they're your friends. I've been a SFF fan most of my life, with plenty of friends who don't share my taste, and this notion of a stigma is alien (ha ha) to me.

THIS!

Ye gods, I am tired of everyone under 30 thinking the world revolves around them. I was over that kind of thinking by the time I was 20, for cryin' out loud. Probably explains why I tended not to get all excited about most shows marketed to the teenybopper set, even when I was in high school. I'm also tired of this idea that conformity is some kind of lofty ideal. If I were meant to be a herd animal, I'd have been born a cow or a sheep. No, I'm a human being, and blessed with the ability and desire to think for myself and make my OWN choices about what I find entertaining. I don't need a social network to do it for me, and I was never much for peer pressure.

[Gatefan1976]

THIS!

Ye gods, I am tired of everyone under 30 thinking the world revolves around them. I was over that kind of thinking by the time I was 20, for cryin' out loud. Probably explains why I tended not to get all excited about most shows marketed to the teenybopper set, even when I was in high school. I'm also tired of this idea that conformity is some kind of lofty ideal. If I were meant to be a herd animal, I'd have been born a cow or a sheep. No, I'm a human being, and blessed with the ability and desire to think for myself and make my OWN choices about what I find entertaining. I don't need a social network to do it for me, and I was never much for peer pressure.

Me Mooo...........

[KEK]

Compare the ratio of scripted shows vs reality shows being made in, say, 1995 with that same ratio today. To suggest that it hasn't changed is what would be absurd. I don't know about you, but I remember 1995 pretty well.

No one suggested it hadn't changed. Straw man.

Shop in a store whose line of merchandise is composed 90% of socks and shoes, then tell me that the popularity of socks and shoes explains why that store sells hardly any shirts...

If only the ratio were anything like that, or we were taking either genre in it's entirety, then your analogy might work. The highest rated science fiction shows, nevermind the campy ones, pull no where near the numbers that the biggest reality shows do. The ratio of science fiction to reality TV is completely irrelevant.

Popular enough to have several seasons...

Which proves... what? You don't judge popularity by the number of seasons, you judge it by the number of viewers. If what few science fiction shows that were on were pulling huge numbers then you could argue that it's more popular than reality TV, but they don't.

Neither of which would fit your definition of "popular", I'm sure...

Why do you say that? Dr Who is one of the highest rated shows on British TV, especially the specials. TNG in it's day also had insane ratings. B5 and Farscape were never even close to being in the same league.

Okay, I'm done. You think science fiction is cheap and silly, so you hang out on the forum of a site dedicated to a science fiction show and to the genre as a whole, dissing said genre to its fans? Why exactly are you here?

I've never said I think it's cheap and silly, I said that's the general mainstream perception of it, which it is.

Why not go watch whatever televised talent show is currently thrilling the lowest common denominator in whatever country you inhabit, and leave the rest of us in peace?

Because I don't like that stuff, and have never said anything remotely close to suggesting that I do.

[Gatefan1976]

No one suggested it hadn't changed. Straw man.

Personal experiance, different.

If only the ratio were anything like that, or we were taking either genre in it's entirety, then your analogy might work. The highest rated science fiction shows, nevermind the campy ones, pull no where near the numbers that the biggest reality shows do. The ratio of science fiction to reality TV is completely irrelevant.

True, yet everyone whines when Scifi shows get the axe, don't they?

Which proves... what? You don't judge popularity by the number of seasons, you judge it by the number of viewers. If what few science fiction shows that were on were pulling huge numbers then you could argue that it's more popular than reality TV, but they don't.

Guess SGU really did............ umm............ suck then.

Why do you say that? Dr Who is one of the highest rated shows on British TV, especially the specials. TNG in it's day also had insane ratings. B5 and Farscape were never even close to being in the same league.

So, the US is a Scifi wasteland then?
Colour me shocked.

[KEK]

Personal experiance, different.

I don't know what that means given the comment you've quoted.

Guess SGU really did............ umm............ suck then.

I'm the last person to try and draw a link between commercial success and quality, I certainly didn't do it in the comment you've quoted.

So, the US is a Scifi wasteland then?
Colour me shocked.

I didn't say that, it just not as popular as reality TV, the rubber faced alien stuff even less so. I don't think that's a particularly controversial statement to make, now more than ever.

[Zed_PM]

I think when it really comes down to it people don't like science fiction because it involves 'science.'
When there is a fantasy movie or book series it is huge. Look at Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter. And now The Hunger Games, which I think is more fantasy than sci-fi. I haven't given it a chance because I don't think it will satisfy me. I need those nerdy characters that go off on a monologue explaining some complicated law of physics which I just lap up. And I tend to do it myself.

People even accept Star Wars over Star Trek because it seems more fantasy. When I was growing up it was always Star Trek vs Star Wars. I never thought I'd ever choose Star Trek.

I think people are starting to get sick of the reality shows, at least over here. Except they still like the trashy American ones. By trashy I mean celebrity trashy...the stuff my sister watches.
Maybe they just have a short attention span and get bored with something quickly. The shows they usually like are separated into little 10 minute segments. Either sketch shows, cooking shows or shows like...I was going to say Getaway or Sydney Weekender, that road test different destinations, restaurants. Lifestyle types of shows.

I think the 80s and 90s was a good time for sci-fi but as society changes, wanting information so quickly, to be entertained so quickly, they just don't have the concentration to enjoy sci-fi. Well they have more concentration than I do and don't need to take a pill everyday, adjust their diet and exercise (including brain training) so they can have a decent memory and sit still for longer than five minutes, but they don't realise that.
Sci-fi has always been a kind of taboo to the popular crowd as well.

One thing I've noticed posting on this forum, is that if I criticize a show with humor, I can expect a quick challenge, usually on the accuracy of my knowledge of the show (and often the inaccuracy was intentional ). I suspect that we sometimes identify with art, it's like a symbol for us, and any jest at the symbol's expense becomes personal. I also suspect that for many fans, including myself, we've been the target of stigma at some point, so while I might mock relationship threads, for example, that could feel like being the target of stigma in the school yard.

I think people just take things so literally. I'm the same. I don't like all this crossover of sci-fi shows and I stay well away from the shipping threads. I suppose whatever sci-fi we're into has its own personal meaning for us. I loved SGU. It helped me escape the horror of my current living situation and I felt I was a part of the crew. And when people criticise it I go off on some long rant about how they just don't get it. And I loved Torchwood: Miracle Day which something like 97% of Torchwood fans hated.

I get criticised for my interest in, well, everything but mostly for sci-fi. And as I see it as society rejecting who I am I respond with defiance.
I'll elaborate: everything I'm interested in is seen to be nerdy or geeky and therefore uncool. I dedicate my life to writing science fiction, so most of the time I'm watching/reading/studying it and trying to incorporate what I learn into my story. And when people tell you that no one wants to hear about it, well, I feel like tearing them to pieces. Instead I just look at their interests, their lifestyle as something completely alien and undesirable which is how they probably see mine.

[SF_and_Coffee]

No one suggested it hadn't changed. Straw man.

You implied it. Not a straw in sight. Also, Gatefan1976 has the right of it.

If only the ratio were anything like that, or we were taking either genre in it's entirety, then your analogy might work. The highest rated science fiction shows, nevermind the campy ones, pull no where near the numbers that the biggest reality shows do. The ratio of science fiction to reality TV is completely irrelevant.

I never said they pulled the same numbers, and I never said anything at all about the ratio of SF to reality shows. What was that about straw men again?

Which proves... what? You don't judge popularity by the number of seasons, you judge it by the number of viewers. If what few science fiction shows that were on were pulling huge numbers then you could argue that it's more popular than reality TV, but they don't.

And if there isn't an adequate number of viewers, the shows in question don't get renewed, which means they don't get to HAVE a large number of seasons. Case in point, as Gatefan1976 already mentioned, would be SGU. Ergo, popularity has a direct causative correlation to the number of seasons in a show's run.

Why do you say that? Dr Who is one of the highest rated shows on British TV, especially the specials. TNG in it's day also had insane ratings. B5 and Farscape were never even close to being in the same league.

And yet you maintain that SF is unpopular, while saying out the other side of your mouth that two of the most popular scripted TV shows in current run or recent memory are SF. You need to decide which side of the argument you want to take.

I've never said I think it's cheap and silly, I said that's the general mainstream perception of it, which it is.

Really? I hate to break this to you, but the opinion of your particular circle of friends and acquaintances is hardly indicative of the opinion of the "general mainstream" as a whole. Unless you've some research to cite (with links) or can show that you've spoken to thousands of people throughout the Anglophonic world (since we're not discussing only the US, apparently) about this, I think it's pretty clear that you're basing your assumptions on a too-small sample size. You also seem to be completely forgetting the SF and SF-type shows currently and recently airing on mainstream networks outside Syfy. Lost, Fringe, etc. Not all SF has aliens (although my favorite subgenre tends to) and the savvy folks in TV-production land know this.

Because I don't like that stuff, and have never said anything remotely close to suggesting that I do.

For someone who doesn't like reality shows or contest shows, you sure do seem to make an awful lot of noise about how popular they are and how much higher their quality is than that of science fiction shows...

[Reseph(Shed)]

Give me the made-up aliens every time.

I miss Farscape. Now that was a show where they did make-up very well and it wasn't cheesy. I just hate that Zahn's actress had to leave because the makeup was giving her cancer (I think. I know she had some sort of health issue with the blue makeup.)

[jelgate]

It wasn't cancer. The makeup was damanging her kidneys

[duffarama]

I agree with Zed_PM on all his points.

I'm proud to be a Stargate fan, judging from my DVD/Blu-ray collection:


Hopefully quality science-fiction shows such as Stargate become mainstream in the near future. The attention to detail, production qualities and intelligence of Stargate SG-1 are examples of things that initially drew me to the Stargate franchise.

[SF_and_Coffee]

I agree with Zed_PM on all his points.

I'm proud to be a Stargate fan, judging from my DVD/Blu-ray collection:


Hopefully quality science-fiction shows such as Stargate become mainstream in the near future. The attention to detail, production qualities and intelligence of Stargate SG-1 are examples of things that initially drew me to the Stargate franchise.

I'm with you. I want to see more of this type of show.