Point of Origin Questions

[MagnoliaAnaglypta]

No there has to be more combinations than that . If it was that easy, why didn't Jack have Daniel just sit and try all of the combinations until they found the one that worked?

And the answer is - neither he nor the script writers thought of it.

Which is the biggest plot hole in the entire film.

Mathematically, it simply HAD to be that easy. You know the first six symbols. You know the one you don't know is the seventh. You know you only have a limited number that it could possibly be. The logic of it was quite simply overlooked. Sorry.

[spg_1983]

ok here is my personal theory on the PoO and the symbols. you dont have to agree, some people do others dont. the symbols on the gate are not star constelations. the reason they match star constelations is because ancient man saw them on the gate first and then made up the constelations based on them. the BRB os the PoO. it makes sense that if you are making an easy to use inteface for a galaxy wide network that, if there is one unique symbol on every stargate and it is the last one that needs to be punched in then the center most button on your dialing device should be the unique symbol, having it be a generic BRB makes manufacturing easy and faster. these are only my theories, ill defend them if you want to have a good natured, polite discussion, but i wont respond to stupid flames

[MagnoliaAnaglypta]

ok, about the symbols- they represent stellar alinements, right? but each constilation would appear different from a different perspective, so every DHD should have a different set of 39 symbols... which means they can just memorize one set of coordinates to get home.. unless earth was the starting point taken by the ancients, and all DHDs are made in configuration with what ours had back yore...

Logically, given the explanation that they gave us as to how the dialling system worked, that SHOULD have been the route they took when they did the series. There is no way any of the constellations would look the same from any other planet, so travellers arriving on a strange world would be faced with 39 completely unrecognisable symbols.

The only explanation that I've been able to come up with that satisfies myself, is that rather than representing constellations in the night sky of the planet on which the particular stargate resides, they represent a relative co ordinate set where the patterns chosen just happen to represent constellations that could be seen from the original gate. So that each glyph would simply be a representation of a set of polar (as opposed to cartesian) coordinates.

But if the symbols for earth are the same every time they dial it(which it appears they are), then that blows this theory out of the water, because otherwise how would they know how to get home every time they went to a new planet? They would have to do some fairly complicated mathematics to work out the position of earth relative to the new planet and translate that into a co-ordinate set. Possible, but no way could you do it in ten seconds, and I don't think you could do it before you left home either, because you would have to take into account the axis of the planet, and you wouldn't be able to tell that from such a long distance.

So now, it appears that the glyphs do act more like telephone numbers, and a particular telephone number (or at least the first six) will always represent that particular planet no matter where you start dialling from. And this is obviously the way that they've gone in the show. But unfortunately it clashes desperately with the explanation that Daniel gave for how the co-ordinate system worked in the film. It's just one of those things. The writers are not mathematicians or astrophysicists, they had a cool idea, and they developed the drama of it, and then discovered they had to tag hokey pseudo-science on the top. And that's what it is. It's technobabble, pure and simple, and that's really the way that one needs to accept it because if you stop to analyse it you find that there is no way that all of the scientific and mathematical inconsistencies can be explained.

Such is life. I put this into the same category as warp drive and transporters - utterly impossible, but makes for a better dramatic story.

[FeydJM]

I guess the BRB being the PoO makes sense, except for the fact that there are episodes where they obviously hit 7 symbols on the DHD.

This could all have been solved if in the movie, instead of finding a 7th symbol, they had learned how the DHD really worked and discovered that you only need the first 6 because the DHD knows what planet it's on.

I'm going to go home tonight and try to find some DHD dialing sequences to see if they punch six or seven consistently...

[spg_1983]

I guess the BRB being the PoO makes sense, except for the fact that there are episodes where they obviously hit 7 symbols on the DHD.

This could all have been solved if in the movie, instead of finding a 7th symbol, they had learned how the DHD really worked and discovered that you only need the first 6 because the DHD knows what planet it's on.

I'm going to go home tonight and try to find some DHD dialing sequences to see if they punch six or seven consistently...

there is some debate as too the number of symbols the hit. there are many episodes where they hit 7, many where they hit six. there are also an episode where they hit 9, and 4

the DHD wasnt in the movie, it was added for the show.

[FeydJM]

there is some debate as too the number of symbols the hit. there are many episodes where they hit 7, many where they hit six. there are also an episode where they hit 9, and 4

the DHD wasnt in the movie, it was added for the show.

OK, refresh my memory then, how did they dial back in the movie? They didn't have the dialing computer on Abydos... What am I forgetting?

[Penance]

no, it was in the movie, it was jsut still buried

great theories guys. =)

[Flyboy]

OK, refresh my memory then, how did they dial back in the movie? They didn't have the dialing computer on Abydos... What am I forgetting?

I'm asuming that they had computers with them and were able to replicate exactly the same method that they use in the SGC.

[spg_1983]

OK, refresh my memory then, how did they dial back in the movie? They didn't have the dialing computer on Abydos... What am I forgetting?

they just manually dialed the gate.

[simon4of4]

There are several good theories here and while I agree that we may be looking too deeply into it I still want to throw one more kink in the hose.

Possible Spoiler Warning - If you haven't seen Lost City you may want to skip this post.


Let's not forget that when Jack started accessing the knowledge of the Ancients we found out that Stargate addresses are actually names for the plant they correspond to.

I'm sure that gate addresses are not chosen based on this name but it does add another level of complexity into the equation when you realize every gate address can also be spoken.

[Cyrstal Skull Alien]

I also think that we are forgetting that we can add an 8th symbol, this was used to dial a new area code, this symbol, must appear on all gates, but not being used in any address.

Also the symbols must be star constalations as seen from earth, as the list of address that was found in the pilot, was fed into the computer back at the SGC to account for stella drift, also when o'neil entered a lot of address into the SG computers he entered address that were not on the gould list, this means that the gould did not know how to find new planets with stargates, and only travel around planets they new about.

[spg_1983]

I also think that we are forgetting that we can add an 8th symbol, this was used to dial a new area code, this symbol, must appear on all gates, but not being used in any address.

Also the symbols must be star constalations as seen from earth, as the list of address that was found in the pilot, was fed into the computer back at the SGC to account for stella drift, also when o'neil entered a lot of address into the SG computers he entered address that were not on the gould list, this means that the gould did not know how to find new planets with stargates, and only travel around planets they new about.

ok first off the 8th symbol can be any of the 38 symbols potentially, minus PoO

no the symbols dont have to to be star constelations as seen from earth, it could be the other way around

why couldn't the goa'uld find new planets? the Abydos Cartouche was just a list compiled by Ra, with no indication as to whether it is a complete list of adresses he knew or just a partial, other goa'uld could know others, plus they have ships that can move stargates to planets with out them, and finally, the goa'uld did not build the gate network so at some point in time they had to have found new planets with stargates, so how do you figure the goa'uld cant find new planets?

[thor39]

Maybe they look it up in the phone book hanging from the DHD

[Cyrstal Skull Alien]

ok first off the 8th symbol can be any of the 38 symbols potentially, minus PoO

Okay, I agree that it could be any chosen symbol that represents dialling a far off galaxy. The symbols are the same on the gates all over our galaxy, and they are the constellations from our view point, as this is the home planet for the Ancients, it is likely they would use it on all gates in this galaxy. for another example, look at time on this planet the whole time thing is based on Greenwich meant time, so all the other time zones are adjusted from GMT.

why couldn't the goa'uld find new planets? the Abydos Cartouche was just a list compiled by Ra, with no indication as to whether it is a complete list of adresses he knew or just a partial, other goa'uld could know others, plus they have ships that can move stargates to planets with out them, and finally, the goa'uld did not build the gate network so at some point in time they had to have found new planets with stargates, so how do you figure the goa'uld cant find new planets?

We have founf that the DHD update themselves, so the gould did not necessarily have to figure out the whole drift thing, the gould are scavengers, so they would have got their understanding and use of the Stargate and ships from others.

But we have seen the gould home world where they took the unas as the first host and then humans, who did they see operate the gate to know how to use it, the unas dont seem to be capable of advanced thought, so the gould who took the first unas as hosts would have seen the gate travellers as gods and may have feared them! A gould must have taken one of the travellers as a host and learned from them.

[spg_1983]

We have founf that the DHD update themselves, so the gould did not necessarily have to figure out the whole drift thing, the gould are scavengers, so they would have got their understanding and use of the Stargate and ships from others.

But we have seen the gould home world where they took the unas as the first host and then humans, who did they see operate the gate to know how to use it, the unas dont seem to be capable of advanced thought, so the gould who took the first unas as hosts would have seen the gate travellers as gods and may have feared them! A gould must have taken one of the travellers as a host and learned from them.

so whats your point? you had at first said that the goa'uld should not be able to find any new worlds with stargates and i answered you how they could have. now you are talking about how they first figured out how to use the gates? yes either the goa'uld figured out how to use the gate when they took unas as hosts or the took over someone that came to their planet and knew how. what does that have to do with your original question of them finding new planets with stargates that arnt on the cartouche?