Has Ascension weakened the show? possible spoilers

[Geekyred]

Ascension WAS a great device in the begining and Daniel's ascension was right, but doing the whole planet and Daniel coming back has really cheapend what had been such a good idea. The idea that the acients were the first who ascended was great, but honestly, TPTB have now stuffed up a good thing by overuse and lazy plotlines IMO.

[spg_1983]

But there is one final use of ascension I want to see: Bra'tac. He should be badly injured in battle and decide to go off to Kheb to learn to ascend. Now that would mean it wasn't an on-the-spot cop-out and it has been something Bra'tac has wanted...

possible spoilers season 8
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I tottaly agree with you! i remeber reading a spoiler somewhere that bra'tac dies this season, but i dont know if that is true or not. if it is bra'tac should tottally get to ascend, because he started his journey long before even anyone in the SGC was born. i think they should have a really awesome scene with teal'c escorting him back to kehb, bra'tac tossing his snake aside and the monk fom maternal instinct waiting there for him. either that or have him mortally wonded from a battle where he was able to defeat his opponent and the monk appear to him there. that would be cool. bra'tac deserves it more than anyone on the show.

[ShadowMaat]

Ascension is no longer a lofty goal, no longer a sign of greatness and achievement, it's just a cheap-arse way to get someone (or multiple someones) out of the way. They'll Ascend someone at the drop of a hat, now.

"Oh no! Siler has a papercut! He should ascend!"

"Chevron Guy is stuck in traffic on the way to work. It'll kill him to be late! Ascend him!"

I mean, come on... let's remember this is supposed to be IMPORTANT, not just a stupid plot device.

[Bacardi]

i think they should have a really awesome scene with teal'c escorting him back to kehb, bra'tac tossing his snake aside and the monk fom maternal instinct waiting there for him.

bra'tac doesnt have a snake...

[spg_1983]

bra'tac doesnt have a snake...

oh crap right i forgot about that

[aAnubiSs]

possible spoilers season 8
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I tottaly agree with you! i remeber reading a spoiler somewhere that bra'tac dies this season, but i dont know if that is true or not. if it is bra'tac should tottally get to ascend, because he started his journey long before even anyone in the SGC was born. i think they should have a really awesome scene with teal'c escorting him back to kehb, bra'tac tossing his snake aside and the monk fom maternal instinct waiting there for him. either that or have him mortally wonded from a battle where he was able to defeat his opponent and the monk appear to him there. that would be cool. bra'tac deserves it more than anyone on the show.

Bra'tac is worthy to Ascend. Skaa'ra wasn't IMO. Atleast not if we go by assumption that one has to do something.

[Anubis]

Skaara was worthy to ascend. He helped his people in a simular way to which Daniel did. I guess you could call Skaara Daniel's right hand man

As for Bra'tac, yes he is worthy to ascend. He and Teal'c have built a strong Jeffa rebellion that has succeeded in many missions

[ShadowMaat]

I don't think Skaara was "worthy" of ascension. Dunno if I'd nominate Bra'tac for glowy octopus-hood either, though. Dunno... I know he's a much-beloved character but he's never been of tremendous interest to me personally. *shrug* Of course, if you'd ask me who or what would qualify a person, I couldn't tell ya. It's just the way I balance things in my head...

[Bacardi]

i say ban ascension... seen enough of it now its not special anymore..

[Teal'c]

I think it was all part of the loophole TPTB built for themselves precicely so they COULD say, "OK, now let's bring him back!" There was no deep thought involved, it was just the quickest, cheapest, dirtiest, stupidest way they could do it.

Not true, they could have had Jack wake up and be at the end of The Sentinel and told him it was all a dream

[ecm101]

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I don't no... I think that they showed the people like Daniel and Oma did not always stick with the rules the 'others' layed out and that Daniel was misguide in try to 'help' Jack go all glowy. And Oma is not supposed to be Acsending people either-- Like Daniel or the monk or all of abydos. Didn't the 'others' put Orin in a kind of prison for doing something wrose. So Maybe Oma and Danny were working under the radar, untill Daniel try to kill Anubis.

[angsty_otaku]

ascension is definately a way to cheat death...it's a way to help get rid of character and bring them back. not to be a sadist or anything...but if you want to kill a character off then do it with no hesitation.
also, ascention definately says something about a character. for instance, abyss is a great episode because spoilers (?)<it shows that even if offered a way to cheat death, o'neill would rather die...even if it seems like its because he doesn't think he's worthy...it's still respectable >

[spg_1983]

ascension is definately a way to cheat death...it's a way to help get rid of character and bring them back. not to be a sadist or anything...but if you want to kill a character off then do it with no hesitation.
also, ascention definately says something about a character. for instance, abyss is a great episode because spoilers (?)<it shows that even if offered a way to cheat death, o'neill would rather die...even if it seems like its because he doesn't think he's worthy...it's still respectable >

its not that he would rather die or cheat death, its that he can never give up. in order to ascend you have to let go and release your will to live. oneill is a fighter and a warrior, he can never give up its just not in his character to quit fighting.

[DownFallAngel]

I read through most of these posts and I have to agree with you (all of you) on how Ascension is like a get out of death card.

Many of you also have states that when Daniel offered Jack the chance to ascend, it was bad. I think it was a pretty cool thing. I mean hearing Jack say that he is willing to have Daniel(pretty much his best friend) take his life, so he won't have to die and be brought back to life, and die again and end up harming earth is a pretty powerful thing.

Daniel says screw dying, ascending is so much better, we have pina colatas up here, and volleyball. Why shouldn't Jack ascend? I mean he has done so much good, and has come from so much hardship that its cool for him to be offered something such as moving his spirit to a higher plane of exsistance. Hey he might even understand how the stargate works, and not have to know Ancient to speak it.

Abydos is kinda the same way. They ascended because look at what they came from. They were completely enslaved for hundreds of years, and when their "god" died what happened? They chose to remain a peaceful civilization. They chose not to fight, but learn from the wisdom of Daniel Jackson.

My thrid and final piont is about this whole, lets offer everyone and thier brother, excep for the smelly kid in the corner, ascension. Daniel kept giving inside information and secrets and everything that the ancients didn't want the humans to know, to the humans. He went against the rules and he paid for his crimes, by being banished. So in a sense, there isn't going to be alot of acending anymore. I don't think Janet should come back either, as here role was done. They have that Healing Box thingy anyway.

Just my thoughts.

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

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I don't no... I think that they showed the people like Daniel and Oma did not always stick with the rules the 'others' layed out and that Daniel was misguide in try to 'help' Jack go all glowy. And Oma is not supposed to be Acsending people either-- Like Daniel or the monk or all of abydos. Didn't the 'others' put Orin in a kind of prison for doing something wrose. So Maybe Oma and Danny were working under the radar, untill Daniel try to kill Anubis.

I'm with you on this one, DFA.

There's a trick to ascending; if Nuby figured out how to ascend then pureness of heart has nothing to do with it.
Oma runs a cult (a cult, FCOL! ), and quite possibly she uses the old religious enlightenment spiel to win converts. She may be the equivalent to a (more benign) Goa'uld in Ascended Land - using false religion as a means to gain power.

Ascending the Abydonians was cheeep, IMO (and it was hardly the only thing wrong with that ep. ), but it may have been necessary, by the Ascended's PTB, to right what I see, essentially, as Oma's wrong. The Abydonians were like refugees, in a sense; refugees aren't all innocent and pure of heart, but they are victims of injustice, and in the case of Abydos, the Ascended were fighting a war over their(the Abydoian's) territory and so probably had to take the Abydonians in, under whatever rules of engagement the Ascended abide by.

In Orlin's case, he broke the Ascended's rules, and he and an entire population paid the price, but in this case, the population was guilty of using their newly (and illegally) aquired intel to commit genocide (xenocide?)

Janet didn't ascend because, in my immagination, Oma is now in trouble with the law, on the run, or has been exiled to,... maybe Kheb, in the same way Orlin was exiled when he got caught.

So, in my immagination, ascension hasn't weakened the show. But the show, as it stands now, is, I think, weakened by the poor development of this plotline.