SGC? More harm then good?

[andy tyler]

Is this thread serious? come on its a TV show.

The Goa'uld have enslaved humans for generations. That's wrong in all aspects.

The Ori have been taking advantage of humans for generations. That's wrong in all aspects.

The Replicators would've eventually won out against the Asgard and destroyed us eventually.

The Wraith awakened but they have been weakened severely. They have been feeding on humans for centuries. That's just wrong.

Seriously? the SGC has done more harm?

[Ouroboros]

I don't personally think they've done more harm than good yet but that's largely down to how the writing always gives them the best possible outcome for their given choice of actions, rather than the most likely one.

The direction they're heading in though is not a good one. Shipping out what you think is best for the rest of the universe via military force is how all those sci-fi staple "evil empires" get started. Sure the people running it right now might be able to catch themselves before they slip that badly, but they're laying down the institutional precident that those who come after could use to push the envelope of "our way or the highway" just a little bit further.

[Commander Thor]

Agreed, we've made some bad mistakes, but we always put our mistakes
right in the end, unlike some.

what i meant...

also so what if we use military ways.
the Wraith consider us food so wouldn't negotiate with us
Goa'uld and Ori consider themselves gods so won't listen to us
Replicators are Robots and Asurans were going by programming so wouldn't let us talk them down.


way i see it is we only used force against enemies when necesary. sure we tend to go in guns blazing to what we see is morally wrong but if you came across a galaxy under the iron fist rule of a race that

a) kills for the fun of it (goa'uld)
b) eats them without bothering to try for an alternate means of food
c) uses them to gain power to eventually dominate the universe
d) eat all tech to kill everyone

i think you would pick up a weapon in defence of yourselves and the galaxy no?

[Phenom]

I like the argument of 'well by playing with the ancient device we inadvertantly brought the Ori to the Milky Way' and that sort of thing. That is possibly the most insane argument ever conceived. Where is the intent to cause harm to others on behalf of the SGC? The behaviour isn't even reckless.

It is no different to a person driving to work and gently braking when it probably wasn't required. That sets off a chain reaction in the traffic flow which results in a fatal accident occurring 30 mins later and 50km away. You certainly couldn't blame the person who braked un-necessarily for causing the death. It was just something unfortunate that happened. Why does every bad thing that happens have to be someones fault?? Bad things just happen!!

[dosed150]

We can't say whether it was a right or just thing to do. In Sg-1 episode "Entity", it's at least shown what can happen when we step through the gate (or the MALP), we severely harmed their civilisation.

Anyway, we in fact were destroying one way of life we were considering wrong. The question is: Can we decide on what is wrong?
I don't think so, and therefore, I'd give the choice to the local populations instead of coming through the gate and killing every Goa'uld we encounter.
If the populations asked us to destroy the Goa'uld, as they were not happy with current situation, I wouln't have the slightest problem with it.

But I'm afraid we were interfering in someone else's lifes, and so, we weren't right. (let's associate it with the self-determination right)

that sounds like some pc nonsense there, i think we can decide if other cultures are wrong, i mean i think most people would agree that the treatment of women in certain parts of the world is wrong, the fact that our culture used to be like that and weve progressed past that means we can say its wrong. as for asking, most of these populations were so indoctrinated and fearful that they would never ask

[escyos]

how much worse would that galaxy have been without them, if they did nothing it could have been worse..thats where the whole, dont change the past as you could drastically alter the future idea comes from

[Mclean]

The brought the Ori down on the Milky way galaxy, which if they hadn't been messing with that communication device the plague wouldn't have been released on earth and all those other lives would have been saved.... the Atlantis expedition unleashed the wraith (I know they would have woke up eventually, but that could have been hundreds, if not thousands of years and think of how advanced the genii or the hoffans could have become in that time? I would say alot.... and not to mention how many other civilisations out there that are industialised or close to it.....


The gould was a win sure, and the replicators was alot to do with the asgards meddling too, but basically would we have been better off if they shipped Carter to area 51 permananly?, an arranged wedding for Danny and Vala? and just shot mitchell?

Basically would the universe have been better off if the SGC learned that there are places they shouldn't explore? Or were a bit less confrontational at least?

We probably do have a lot to answer for:

When we killed Ra, the Goa'uld Empire descended into civil war where the victor would take his seat at the head of the Goa'uld, millions of Jaffa would have died as a result of this action and many more would have suffered untold hardships as worlds constantly switched rulers (who may not take to kindly to the Jaffa of the world having a rivals symbol on their head). Then when we defeated the Goa'uld, the Free Jaffa Nation was set up. A farce at best, as they couldn't get over old hatreds that were part of their life under the Goa'uld. There was also a surge in Jaffa looking to take control of the FJN and dominate all others. And also with the collapse of the Goa'uld we have the rise of the Lucien Alliance. A group of gangsters, criminals and mercenaries who have banded together to create a powerful group that can rampage over any part of the galaxy unchecked.

Then we have th replicators attacking our galaxy. Many worlds would have been ruined and I doubt we are doing much to get them back on their feet.

And finally we have the unleashing of the Ori. A powerful enemy who, if you resisted, would wipe out your people using their troops, ships or plagues. I'm also willing to believe that there wre worlds outside the Goa'uld gate network that were attacked by the Ori. Worlds that would have no idea what was happening (like us before we used the Stargate). I'm willing to bet we aren't helping them to rebuild and get back on their feet.

And in the Pegasus galaxy.

We have a Galaxy who live under the shadow of the Wraith. Who, every now and again, get culled and left alone for years at a time. Until we come along that is. We awaken the Wraith to a Galaxy low on food to sustain there kind and this drives them into civil war that forces them to cull worlds as often as they can. People who may never have seen the Wraith before are now on a constant state of alert, terrified that the gate is going to activate and Darts are going to fly out.

Then we have the Pegasus Replicators. They claimed to have a plan to fight the Wraith. This may or may not be true. But we anger them enough to get them to attack us and Atlantis. We then restart their program that forces them to fight the Wraith against there will, and they start destroying every human civilization they come across in an attempt to wipe out the Wraith. After we destroy the Replicators these worlds fall back into the hands of the Wraith who now need to cull more than ever.

So in conclusion, I don't think the Galaxy(ies) have benefited from our being there. We have taken down alien dictators and replaced them with criminals and we have awoken a deadly and powerful race that feed on humans to survive. But as a viewer it's great T.V

[DesertFox2020]

"Oh for crying out loud!"

As we've said, give it some time. We don't get to see what happens, but this is what would:

In probably less than 50 years, these civilizations will be on their feet, free from any and all oppression or enslavement....future generations will never know the suffering that they would've had to know. Freedom is not won for those who fight for it, but for their children and grandchildren and so on.

[thekillman]

to first post:

you ignore the BENEFITS. the problem is, exploring always brings problems. also, jack made a point - the goauld have ships. if we didnt explore, we'd be unprepared for the goauld. its also why we had to search for alien weapons.

the comm terminal could've brought us in contact with living, breathing superadvanced aliens which are our ancestors. unfortunately, they were evil, but hey, we never knew why the ancients left in the first place. so, we couldnt know.

as to Pegasus. it looked like the ancients had gone there, and remained there. it was lost because it was gone to pegasus. so, why not contact our ancestors and an immensely advanced race.

the goauld had fancy tech, and well, we did not. without the SGC, we never could have protected ourselves.


so i think it was nessecary. atleast, after Abydos it was nessecary. also, i believe ra in the movie was heading to earth.

[Supreme Commander Sil]

I was talking about the spreading of a distinctly American ethos of 'freedom!', without bothering to pass judgement on what, specifically, that meant. My criticism instead is that the entire game plan/code of conduct of the SGC is seemingly designed around that particular American mindset. Never mind alternative takes on freedom or governance such as those exercised on our own world by the Russian Federation (a super-presidency bordering on dictatorship), various Middle Eastern states (royalty), or the PRC (let's call that one 'market Leninism')--to say nothing of the peculiarities of defining freedoms in each of the different bodies.

Ahh.... what did they teach you at your scummy capitalistic school??? I know Russians and they celebrate freedom in their country !


Anywho, the SGC may have made mistakes, but they fixed them. They helped out the rebel jaffa, you call that stripping away their beliefs? No, rather, they helped them. Also it's not like they go to every civilisation and force their beliefs upon them..... the people on Abydos were oppressed and wanted help, the SGC didn't just randomly step-in on their own accord !!!!
Anyway, when most nations hear of other nation's military forces on their land, they talk not "Bomb the heck out of them!!!!!" like I'm sure some hasty-losers would ....

Edit: Sorry, guys, forgot to include one thing :

Spoiler:

*howls* !!!

[Commander Thor]

...wtf


yes we have done harm unintentionally. but we have almost always repayed it. only time we haven't was the Wraith which as far as i am aware are still out there

[Supreme Commander Sil]

oobviously never heard "Takovo kak Putin"
^
One can't just make an accidental mistake and back out, leaving others to die. The SGC started a chain of events, and did the right thing by seeing it through

PS People should still use spoilers for spoiler material. Much of the time, it's not used, which annoys me (I still haven't seen SGA s5)....

[Jason]

Okay, I'm going to put in my point of view here. I've read several of the first posts here, so I kind of have an idea what some people feel here.

I think the Stargate is/was something we had to explore. I mean, we are a curious "race". If something like that was really found, would any of us here not want to have the human race explore it, no matter the outcome?

Also, in the SG universe, it was only a matter of time before the Gou'ld realized we were here. Imagine not going through the gate, and one day having Gou'ld motherships and attack vessels descending on earth, with no one having a clue what is going on. The knowledge and experience gained through gate travel and battle with the Gou'ld saved earth's butts plenty of times. I don't know, maybe I just like to be prepared, and know if their is an enemy out there.

Now granted, there are some regrettable instances that occured. That occurs in anything that happens where we supposedly stick our noses where it doesn't belong. The question to ask is, "In the long run, will we have done some good?" Honestly, I think that every character that we have followed could say yes. Sure, a lot of people in our galaxy have it rough now trying to figure out what to do with their newfound freedom. But the next generation or two is who is going to reap the rewards of the present difficulties.

Now, in the Pegasus galaxy is where you could say we stepped over the line. Look at it, we freakin woke up more Wraith than have been awake at one time in probably forever. That did cost a lot of lives currently. But in the long run, it saved more lives than it cost. About the only action that I have to wonder about off-hand, is Rodney wiping out 5/6 of a solar system. That was not a good move.

Anyway, I guess my point is that going through the gate has overall been a positive. Their have been a few bumps in the road along the way, but the ride has been worth it now and in the future.

[DesertFox2020]

From earlier in this thread....

And that solar system was uninhabited! (Plus anyone could've stumbled upon it, it was an unstable technology...so I blame the Ancients-they created it right?)