Female Characters

[Skydiver]

in the 'who was the lead' i think an 'agree to disagree' will need to be said. Cause I know flynn's opinions well and she's just as steadfast in them as FOB is likely to be, so an endless debate about whether or not Sam was lead won't do much beyond derailing the thread.

I do think that, one thing both can agree on is, whether a person did/didn't see AT as the lead during RDA's absences, tptb sure didn't treat the character that way in a story development/plot arc way. And they have not had a good track record of utilizing their female characters to the fullest of their potential and abilities

[flynn1959]

in the 'who was the lead' i think an 'agree to disagree' will need to be said. Cause I know flynn's opinions well and she's just as steadfast in them as FOB is likely to be, so an endless debate about whether or not Sam was lead won't do much beyond derailing the thread.

I do think that, one thing both can agree on is, whether a person did/didn't see AT as the lead during RDA's absences, tptb sure didn't treat the character that way in a story development/plot arc way. And they have not had a good track record of utilizing their female characters to the fullest of their potential and abilities

Yes you're right, I for one do agree with that.

As I have said before I don't think these particular PTB have the first clue how to write a good strong female character. They seem to lose their way with them, maybe they get bored with them - I don't know. IMO both Sam and Vala started off strong then kind of lost their way.

[Skydiver]

i think this tendency for 'getting lost' isn't purely about the ladies. I do think they fixate on 1-2 of the characters that they like and obsess over them, giving the rest short shrift.

I do also think, however, that this 'getting lost' is more obvious with the ladies, because there are so few of them and when tptb 'get lost' dude, they do it like gangbusters

they fall into a cliche and it'll take them months and months to pull themselves out (sometimes, it seems, the months it takes for fans in general to see a few eps, comment, whinge, complain and then for the writers to sit down and go 'mmhm, yeah, you know we DID do that 8 of the last 10 episodes, didn't we? d'oh'

sometimes tptb respond, other times they thumb their nose and just keep doing it.

But, it is still something that is more pronounced with the ladies. vala started out as a wonderful premise and had the potential to be this richly conflicted character that ended up not much more than a walking cliche in being mostly daniel's girlfriend, giving birth to the ultimate evil, etc.

she had great potential and it just never went anywhere.

[suse]

as to vala ordering the SF's

sometimes 'reality' takes second seat to the practicality of a tv show and the need to use the actors you have.

she was no more authorized than Daniel was to interrogate walter when the gate disappeared (reynolds or castleman, both having already done the 'ranking officer that sometimes handles base security' schtick shoulda done it)

sam never shoulda been autopsying the super soldier in evolution ( i think it was) but teryl wasn't around so she did it

sometimes it makes more sense to use the actor you've already bought and paid for (as in one of the leads that are on set anyway) than to pay a few thousand and cast an extra.

so, in their defense, i will say sometimes the characters ALL are used outside what should be the scope of their jobs because it's cheaper adn more expedient to do so

I understand the economics. Was still a stupid idea, considering she was on *probation* - if even that - certainly not trusted. There's using a character outside his/her skillset and there's doing... that.

On topic: TV shows have an incredible power to influence change. Even change at a personal level, if it happens to enough people, things can be changed/improved later. Look at Star Trek. Uhura, even though she wasn't a leader, inspired more than a few women/African Americans who really needed encouragement that things would be better.

suse

[Skydiver]

i agree. same with sulu

here were asian americans, wiht fresh memories of years spent in internment camps, seeing one of 'their own' so to speak, a valued officer on a space ship

it could be the same with females on scifi shows. pull them out of those nice comfortable cliches and treat them like real people.

[Stewart5]

I do think that, one thing both can agree on is, whether a person did/didn't see AT as the lead during RDA's absences, tptb sure didn't treat the character that way in a story development/plot arc way. And they have not had a good track record of utilizing their female characters to the fullest of their potential and abilities

True. TPTB have much to answer for, but they could just be pandering to society (in general)
Most of us here are smart enough to realise there is no problem with a strong, female lead part without her becoming less female. However, society as a whole seems to think that a woman cannot be both in a position of power and be feminine at the same time, so it strike me that TPTB fell into that trap of either she's the big bad boss lady, or she's the female back up. And let's face it, she does seem to have mush less authority/presence about her in later series.

[Spirit]

I'm back! So I see things are progressing a bit.. You see, that's the issue I've been trying to raise. 'The writer's lack of writings on female characters and giving them the opportunity to be lead character as first credit on the show!'

I'm so glad that some of you see my view on this... I was beginning to bite my tongue!

On topic: TV shows have an incredible power to influence change. Even change at a personal level, if it happens to enough people, things can be changed/improved later. Look at Star Trek. Uhura, even though she wasn't a leader, inspired more than a few women/African Americans who really needed encouragement that things would be better.
suse

You see Suse, that's a powerful statement right there. I've always believed that what we see on television is what that will influences us. Especially in this day and age where most people watch television or go out for a movie, rather it is for entertainment or inspiration (I mostly go for inspiration.)

I have observed over the years that people are so used to what they see that they don't even question it! I for one did not even used to care. Until I started getting fascinated by SciFi and noticing the female characters I like slowly slipping away. That's when I know I had to say something.

I, by no mean try to start a thread on sexism. But I think people really need to stop and think every time they see a great movie. A strong story line is a must but all those hard works the actor/actress puts behind the scene is also important. They should be treated equally as they would working in banks, retails, offices, hospitals. I mean you talk about equalities yet in Television you have sexism issues, why?

Like you said Suse, people get inspired and encouraged. There needs to be a strong character for everyone and not just a cliche.

True. TPTB have much to answer for, but they could just be pandering to society (in general)
Most of us here are smart enough to realise there is no problem with a strong, female lead part without her becoming less female. However, society as a whole seems to think that a woman cannot be both in a position of power and be feminine at the same time, so it strike me that TPTB fell into that trap of either she's the big bad boss lady, or she's the female back up. And let's face it, she does seem to have mush less authority/presence about her in later series.

Honestly, at first I didn't know much people understood. But I'm glad to hear more voices here. You'd think people would notice that there's hardly enough strong female character, let alone being first on credit. Like I said again and again, it has became such a stereotype, such a cliche, people don't even see it. Most people don't care! All they care is that it's a good movie or serie.

I personally believe that SciFi is a good place to start. I mean, it's SciFi! You can do pretty much anything your imagination brings you!

I mean look at Janeway...I absolutely loved her. She's like the heart of the show. She's a leader, a mother, a friend, a mentor, a guide, a woman, a daughter, a companion, and a human. They tried writing everything they can to develop her character. I think it's all about trying and putting your mind outside the box.

I love the parts where she had to show no emotion to the crew but on the side angle, they allow a glimpse of a grin on her face. See, that's human.. We all have feelings, especially towards those closest to you. How can anyone not have feelings? Anyway, that's beside the point

[Stewart5]

Spoilerd for length

Spoiler:

I'm back! So I see things are progressing a bit.. You see, that's the issue I've been trying to raise. 'The writer's lack of writings on female characters and giving them the opportunity to be lead character as first credit on the show!'

I'm so glad that some of you see my view on this... I was beginning to bite my tongue!



You see Suse, that's a powerful statement right there. I've always believed that what we see on television is what that will influences us. Especially in this day and age where most people watch television or go out for a movie, rather it is for entertainment or inspiration (I mostly go for inspiration.)

I have observed over the years that people are so used to what they see that they don't even question it! I for one did not even used to care. Until I started getting fascinated by SciFi and noticing the female characters I like slowly slipping away. That's when I know I had to say something.

I, by no mean try to start a thread on sexism. But I think people really need to stop and think every time they see a great movie. A strong story line is a must but all those hard works the actor/actress puts behind the scene is also important. They should be treated equally as they would working in banks, retails, offices, hospitals. I mean you talk about equalities yet in Television you have sexism issues, why?

Like you said Suse, people get inspired and encouraged. There needs to be a strong character for everyone and not just a cliche.




Honestly, at first I didn't know much people understood. But I'm glad to hear more voices here. You'd think people would notice that there's hardly enough strong female character, let alone being first on credit. Like I said again and again, it has became such a stereotype, such a cliche, people don't even see it. Most people don't care! All they care is that it's a good movie or serie.

I personally believe that SciFi is a good place to start. I mean, it's SciFi! You can do pretty much anything your imagination brings you!

I mean look at Janeway...I absolutely loved her. She's like the heart of the show. She's a leader, a mother, a friend, a mentor, a guide, a woman, a daughter, a companion, and a human. They tried writing everything they can to develop her character. I think it's all about trying and putting your mind outside the box.

I love the parts where she had to show no emotion to the crew but on the side angle, they allow a glimpse of a grin on her face. See, that's human.. We all have feelings, especially towards those closest to you. How can anyone not have feelings? Anyway, that's beside the point

Very eloquent, I must say.
Blame society in general. I find it is ALWAYS their fault.

[Ozman]

It's about time the Sci-Fi genre should give lead credits to their female characters. Look at movies like Resident Evil, Alien vs Predator, the majority of males do not mind seeing strong women leading a show or movie, hell we embrace it.

As for entertainment being inspirational, that is fact, I see it everywhere. Entertainment influences society and vice versa. It is even possible for males to be inspired by female characters, in more ways than one!

I would like very much for SGU to stir things up by exploring this idea more, now is the Stargate franchises chance. Put the spotlight on more female characters in regards to leading, ( a team and cast), rather than the obligitory female character to mix things up, really mix it up to make things Different to SG1 and Atlantis..

Well, thats what I think anyway.

[Vladius]

You know, I'm curious, is Stargate franchise ever gonna start having 'lead' female roles instead of female 'supporting roles' or 'sidekicks?'

Are the target audience or vast majority of people who make Stargate or the vast majority of the people in the military going to stop being male?

Don't get your hopes up.

[Stewart5]

It's about time the Sci-Fi genre should give lead credits to their female characters. Look at movies like Resident Evil, Alien vs Predator, the majority of males do not mind seeing strong women leading a show or movie, hell we embrace it.

As for entertainment being inspirational, that is fact, I see it everywhere. Entertainment influences society and vice versa. It is even possible for males to be inspired by female characters, in more ways than one!

I would like very much for SGU to stir things up by exploring this idea more, now is the Stargate franchises chance. Put the spotlight on more female characters in regards to leading, (a team and cast), rather than the obligitory female character to mix things up, really mix it up to make things Different to SG1 and Atlantis..

Well, thats what I think anyway.

Well, it sounds bloody eloquent to me mate. And for a colonial, that's damned impressive. hahaha.

but yeah, your point is pretty well put. Although, I don't know if they want to stir thing up. TPTB may see the beginning of a new series, replacing another, loved one,to be(rightly or wrongly) a bad place to start the stirring. give them a series worht, maybe , and things may very well change for the better.


Oh, and Alien quadrilogy would have been a better example than AVP, but hey, ur choice.

[Spirit]

Are the target audience or vast majority of people who make Stargate or the vast majority of the people in the military going to stop being male?

Don't get your hopes up.

Well first of all, the target audience is SciFi fans.. And I'm sure we all agree that we come in all size and shape. I mean that it's not specifically aim towards military personnel or male or female. I mean look at Stargate. They tried to put in diversity but their lack of ability to write female character made it difficult for female characters to grow in general. Even if it is a show that's male predominant. They can still write a good female character if they really wanted to.

And again, even if the vast majority of the people who makes Stargate is male doesn't mean that they're only limited to thinking inside the male box. A writer is a writer and that's what writers are all about. They write about anything and everything.

Well, I'm not going into the extreme of wanting to replace military personnel with all women. I don't particularly care about that issue. I have both male and female friends in the military. I'm not fond of military but whoever choose to join is their own choice. It's not really relevant to this topic.

And I'm not getting my hopes for anything. I am simply voicing my opinion on the matter. It's 2009, even if it takes time for the military to recruit more women, there's no reason why television is lacking behind. After all, it's an imaginative world. It's all about the audiences. Without the audiences, there won't be television. And this audience here said "I want more female characters." Deal with it

[Stewart5]

And again, even if the vast majority of the people who makes Stargate is male doesn't mean that they're only limited to thinking inside the male box.

I don't think that most of us think in ANY sort of box at all......we just.....are....

[Stewart5]

Are the target audience or vast majority of people who make Stargate or the vast majority of the people in the military going to stop being male?

Spirit, I don't think he means the viewers are all military, I think Vladius was getting at the fact that the majority of people IN the military are male, so to portray them correctly the majority of characters must be male too....that was all.....

[Spirit]

That is irrelavent. I know what he is saying Like I said a thousand time. It's SCIFI! What's really real? Even if he intended to say that they're trying to portrait reality... Then I'll have to ask what are the chances of military recruiting Teal'C, an alien? It's just another excuse to say "well, this is reality, can't do much about it." Well, it's television.. We can do A LOT.