What I'd Love to see. More Space Battles.

[Sealurk]

In that case - I most definitely prefer the S6 version.

Agreed. Looked a bit more flimsy and pathetic experimental.

[Mclean]

Prometheus from "Prometheus":

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/dis...um=130&pos=607

Prometheus from "Ethon":

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/dis...um=197&pos=151

I can't see much difference, but I'd say the Ethon shot is a model with updated textures to bring it more in line with the 304s.

EDIT: The Ethon Prommie looks a bit chunkier and meaner, with more distinct armour plating and surface detail, again possibly to bring it more in line with the 304 (not entirely sure why, given what happens...).

The nose on the "Ethon Prommie" looks a lot different to the original Prommie.

Good pics by the way

[Sealurk]

So true, I enjoy the visual candy that is a good space battle/ ship battle but it’s the back story surrounding the battle that makes it work. The lost city is my point entirely; the ships were not “uber” they fitted in perfectly. Just for that brief moment when the Goa’uld fleet of gliders and alkesh are bearing down on the team the cavalry arrives.

Very true. The Lost City was probably my favourite episode in Stargate, and that end battle was a surprisingly large part of why I liked it. I love to watch a good space (or air) battle in Stargate, however I'd prefer they were fewer but better, especially in the case of Atlantis.

The nose on the "Ethon Prommie" looks a lot different to the original Prommie.

Good pics by the way

Thanks! And yes, it does actually look very different. I suppose there's a good in-universe explanation - as the 304s develop and production ramps up, the Prometheus can be upgraded with newer components as they become available and as the ship is recalled to Earth for any of its innumerable refit/repair stays. Given its history, increased armour plating (at least, that's what it looks like on its nose) would be a logical step.

A good way of testing the components too, and given the small number of Earth ships at the time, it makes sense they'd want the prototype to be as capable as possible.

[Flyboy]

Very true. The Lost City was probably my favourite episode in Stargate, and that end battle was a surprisingly large part of why I liked it. I love to watch a good space (or air) battle in Stargate, however I'd prefer they were fewer but better, especially in the case of Atlantis.



Thanks! And yes, it does actually look very different. I suppose there's a good in-universe explanation - as the 304s develop and production ramps up, the Prometheus can be upgraded with newer components as they become available and as the ship is recalled to Earth for any of its innumerable refit/repair stays. Given its history, increased armour plating (at least, that's what it looks like on its nose) would be a logical step.

A good way of testing the components too, and given the small number of Earth ships at the time, it makes sense they'd want the prototype to be as capable as possible.

I concur about the Lost City battle, but that's because, for me, that we weren't guaranteed to beat Anubis easily. In fact all we could hope to do is buy time for SG1. Brilliant. And the fact is, 302s still look distinctly earth based and personally, feel believable. Heck, the F-35B Lightning II is more advanced than a 302 minus the outerspace capabilities. And I imagine that the B2 Bomber is (though I wouldn't know... Americans and their secrets and all ).

[Sealurk]

I concur about the Lost City battle, but that's because, for me, that we weren't guaranteed to beat Anubis easily. In fact all we could hope to do is buy time for SG1. Brilliant. And the fact is, 302s still look distinctly earth based and personally, feel believable. Heck, the F-35B Lightning II is more advanced than a 302 minus the outerspace capabilities. And I imagine that the B2 Bomber is (though I wouldn't know... Americans and their secrets and all ).

I always thought they should have been more streamlined - compared to real life aircraft they look pretty slow and clunky to me. And the number of engines (turbojets, aerospikes, solid rocket booster) struck me partly as clumsy writing, and partly as genius - that the USAF would entrust the safety of Earth to a vehicle that feels so cobbled together and inefficient it probably needs inertial dampeners just to stop it falling out of the sky was brilliant. But wouldn't turboramjets and a hybrid rocket booster be a better combo?

Of course, in a very short time, the F-302 becomes dominant in space battles, losing to far more advanced craft only because of numbers in most cases. For me Stargate was better when the Tau'ri were still low tech and primitive, even though they've got capital ships and space fighters!

[Flyboy]

I always thought they should have been more streamlined - compared to real life aircraft they look pretty slow and clunky to me. And the number of engines (turbojets, aerospikes, solid rocket booster) struck me partly as clumsy writing, and partly as genius - that the USAF would entrust the safety of Earth to a vehicle that feels so cobbled together and inefficient it probably needs inertial dampeners just to stop it falling out of the sky was brilliant. But wouldn't turboramjets and a hybrid rocket booster be a better combo?

Of course, in a very short time, the F-302 becomes dominant in space battles, losing to far more advanced craft only because of numbers in most cases. For me Stargate was better when the Tau'ri were still low tech and primitive, even though they've got capital ships and space fighters!

I quite liked that they were so clunky, afterall, it's taken us a long time to get our fighters and bombers looking like they do now. Makes sense that our first space fighter wouldn't be quite so sleak.

The utter dominance of the 302s does bother me somewhat (though it would be understandable if they were British pilots ). But I whole heartedly agree with you about when Stargate was better. For me the golden era will always be S1-7. 8 representing a necessity to me. Closing arcs and passing the torch to SGA - a show I like very much, but after S9 and 10 of SG1 lost its originality. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I might like the Ori plot, but I wish that they'd just stuck with 7 or 8 seasons of SG1, and I wish sci fi hadn't been so damn greedy. SGA deserved it. SG1 deserved it. The one good thing about the SG1 final episode is it's title - unending. Because after Lost City and Moebius there was no where FOR Sg1 to go. No end product. We were at the product. In every single way, SG1 had reached it's climax with S7 and enjoyed a honey moon period of S8. 9 & 10 was completely unnecessary, with no way of ever getting any kind of meaningful closure to what the team had been doing for years. Because they'd only been doing it thise time for 2 years and didn't need to achieve anything other than the defeat of the Ori.

[Crazedwraith]

Is it just me or doe Ethon' Prometheus look differently proportioned? Shorter and wider? It could just be the angle of the shot.

Still people complaining why other races don't use missiles: 1) there are no horizons in space. So no need for 'over the horizon attack' 2) when have missiles or rail guns for that matter, ever scored a kill on an enemy ship, ever? The 303/304 battle record was pathetic before they got blue beams of doom and were suddenly the killiest things in the universe. The only kills that I can remember were beamed aboard nukes and maybe the Deadelus got a single cruiser kill in Aurora.

Random thought: What powers 303s/304s? When they don't have ZPMs or anything. Or naquadah generators were never good enough to run a full sized ship. And we never got the naquadriah generators to stop exploding whenever we tried to use them.

Prometheus was said to be using an Al'Kesh power core in Grace but what happened after that?

[Flyboy]

Is it just me or doe Ethon' Prometheus look differently proportioned? Shorter and wider? It could just be the angle of the shot.

Still people complaining why other races don't use missiles: 1) there are no horizons in space. So no need for 'over the horizon attack' 2) when have missiles or rail guns for that matter, ever scored a kill on an enemy ship, ever? The 303/304 battle record was pathetic before they got blue beams of doom and were suddenly the killiest things in the universe. The only kills that I can remember were beamed aboard nukes and maybe the Deadelus got a single cruiser kill in Aurora.

I think the argument is - SG1 was cooler before the ships were capable of inducing 'doom'.

[kymeric]

I wouldnt mind seeing that, but its really more of a 200 million dollar feature film kinda thing. Stargate is about the people and their activities, the space battles is just a backdrop for the story and characters IMHO.

Edit: The F-302 has been superior to EVERY same sized fighter since it first appeared. Its been fairly effective against alkesh too. I wouldnt mind seeing them get more uber upgrades, Mckay hyperdrives, cloaks, shields and nukes. How bad@zz wuld it be to see sg1 take 2 gliders to another planet for a mission instead of a gate? Or Sheppard and Mckay doing nuke runs on hives in a single 302?

[Sealurk]

I quite liked that they were so clunky, afterall, it's taken us a long time to get our fighters and bombers looking like they do now. Makes sense that our first space fighter wouldn't be quite so sleak.

I suppose. Don't get me wrong, I love the design of the F-302, I just think it should have been a little sleaker, a little less 'brick' shaped (like the structure behind the cockpit, assuming it isn't a third intake).

The utter dominance of the 302s does bother me somewhat (though it would be understandable if they were British pilots ). But I whole heartedly agree with you about when Stargate was better.

Well of course! Maybe that's the British contribution to the Stargate Program and Homeworld Security, at the expense of Coningsby and Lossiemouth being reduced to ghost towns because the pilots are so in demand....what?! It could happen!

Is it just me or doe Ethon' Prometheus look differently proportioned? Shorter and wider? It could just be the angle of the shot.

No, I agree with you, it looks slightly different in shape, although I think that might be explained as being beefed up with armour plating at its last refit. Pure speculation, but the visual evidence might support it.

Still people complaining why other races don't use missiles: 1) there are no horizons in space. So no need for 'over the horizon attack' 2) when have missiles or rail guns for that matter, ever scored a kill on an enemy ship, ever? The 303/304 battle record was pathetic before they got blue beams of doom and were suddenly the killiest things in the universe. The only kills that I can remember were beamed aboard nukes and maybe the Deadelus got a single cruiser kill in Aurora.

And it was better that way, IMO. I sort of liked the idea that the most advanced and lethal war machines built by humanity could just barely graze the shields of a Ha'tak. But I also liked the idea that the 303 and 304 were remarkably tough and resilient, as it fit with the idea that these are the products of a desperate planet that can't produce many vehicles, so builds the few it can produce like brick outhouses.

I think the argument is - SG1 was cooler before the ships were capable of inducing 'doom'.

Definitely.

[Crazedwraith]

I think the argument is - SG1 was cooler before the ships were capable of inducing 'doom'.

That's perfectly true but not what I'm responding to. Lantien84, was asking why the alien powers never use missiles or CIWS.

I'm all for more epic space battles as long as they are good ones( galactica style). Usually Stargate ship battles consist of ships standing still throwing blobs of plasma at each other. Almost never do you see any ships doing evasive maneuvers until the Shields are about to fail. All these advanced races never use missiles or CIWS( drones don't count), which is just plane stupid, they can make ships with plasma weapons, shields, hyperdrives, but no missiles? Come on, they are a pivotal cornerstone of military hardware( they can be fitted with many types of ordinance, they can track targets beyond visual range, etc).

To which I respond. 1)Missiles have never been shown to kill anything. 2) Shields have been shown to stop missiles from detonating, at all, ince the series one finale. So they do nothing to shielded enemies. (Hence why we've tried to make missile to by pass shields) 3) 'visual range' in space in limited only by the speed of light. there is no horizon to do over horizon attacks with missiles. 4) Ray guns have much higher propagation speeds than solid missiles.

In the end aliens don't use missiles, because they're obsolete. Especially compared to soft science ray guns.

[Sealurk]

To which I respond. 1)Missiles have never been shown to kill anything. 2) Shields have been shown to stop missiles from detonating, at all, ince the series one finale. So they do nothing to shielded enemies. (Hence why we've tried to make missile to by pass shields) 3) 'visual range' in space in limited only by the speed of light. there is no horizon to do over horizon attacks with missiles. 4) Ray guns have much higher propagation speeds than solid missiles.

In the end aliens don't use missiles, because they're obsolete. Especially compared to soft science ray guns.

Even conventional guns could be superior to missiles - they potentially work better in space:

1. No atmospheric drag to give a maximum range
2. No atmosphere to limit shape of projectile
3. No atmosphere to limit upper speed of projectile
4. Microgravity environment means aiming is even easier
5. Rounds would be vastly cheaper and easier to produce than specially designed/modified missiles

Battlestar Galactica definitely got it right with this, I think. More scientifically inclined or educated people might correct me, but it seems more logical.

Stargate was heading in the right direction, with Prometheus' CIWS system in the Antarctic battle for example, rather than silos of air-to-air missiles.