So. What IS Stargate's identity anyway?

[Flyboy]

There would still have been Mulder to link it in with the original X-Files. SGU could be more like an X-Files spin off which featured people we'd never seen in the original series escaping from an alien craft and going on to have lots of adventures in space.



There was also one story with Mulder (All About Yves.) and another with Skinner (The Lying Game) to show that the Gunmen were still in contact with them. This made it clear that the spin off series was about the kind of things the Gunmen did when they weren't helping Mulder out.

Very true regards those episodes (I have the oh so wonderful boxset ).

So basically, would anyone watch an X-Files spin off with NO original characters in it, with no LINKS to the original characters with only aliens and conspiracy? You may as well make it a different show. Heck, like Fringe maybe. Might be a good show, and might be similar in tone, but hey, SGU from what I've heard has three things in common. A Gate. Present Day. Humour. The latter, to me is unimportant. Present Day? The whole present day thing kinda loses its appeal when there's nothing ACTUALLY linking it to the present day, SGU might as well been about an SG team transported forwards in time by millions of years. The Gate? Well that's SOMETHING, but if that's all the show has in common with SG1, SGA and the movie, well... you see where I'm coming from.

[Sealurk]

Very true regards those episodes (I have the oh so wonderful boxset ).

So basically, would anyone watch an X-Files spin off with NO original characters in it, with no LINKS to the original characters with only aliens and conspiracy? You may as well make it a different show. Heck, like Fringe maybe. Might be a good show, and might be similar in tone, but hey, SGU from what I've heard has three things in common. A Gate. Present Day. Humour. The latter, to me is unimportant. Present Day? The whole present day thing kinda loses its appeal when there's nothing ACTUALLY linking it to the present day, SGU might as well been about an SG team transported forwards in time by millions of years. The Gate? Well that's SOMETHING, but if that's all the show has in common with SG1, SGA and the movie, well... you see where I'm coming from.

I certainly can. In fact, you've highlighted one of my big gripes with SGA, which I feel SGU is going to take even further - like you said, the writers can say it's set in the present day, but unless there are recognisable, physical, visual clues (it is after all television, not radio, and our brains are generally wired so that vision is our main sense), it doesn't mean much.

Yes, they can have the characters making pop culture references, but it doesn't do much to help. A big chunk of SG-1's appeal for many people was the present day setting, and the fact that the team had to use items and technology that we recognise, but in an alien setting; or, conversely, show alien beings or technology in a recognisable location.

SGA didn't have anything like enough of this (and even the new uniforms contributed to this - something as simple as having off duty Atlantis civilians walking around in contemporary, normal clothes, like jeans and t-shirts, would have gone a long way to rectifying this), and so, while enjoyable, it suffered because there wasn't enough to remind us viewers when it was set, and ultimately differentiate it from Trek, B5, Andromeda, Farscape or all the others.

P.S. While I'm aware Farscape was also 'present day', it didn't need to rely on this facet of its premise much except when Crichton came into contact with Earth, so it was alright. Stargate pretty much revolved around the present day setting.

[Flyboy]

I certainly can. In fact, you've highlighted one of my big gripes with SGA, which I feel SGU is going to take even further - like you said, the writers can say it's set in the present day, but unless there are recognisable, physical, visual clues (it is after all television, not radio, and our brains are generally wired so that vision is our main sense), it doesn't mean much.

Yes, they can have the characters making pop culture references, but it doesn't do much to help. A big chunk of SG-1's appeal for many people was the present day setting, and the fact that the team had to use items and technology that we recognise, but in an alien setting; or, conversely, show alien beings or technology in a recognisable location.

SGA didn't have anything like enough of this (and even the new uniforms contributed to this - something as simple as having off duty Atlantis civilians walking around in contemporary, normal clothes, like jeans and t-shirts, would have gone a long way to rectifying this), and so, while enjoyable, it suffered because there wasn't enough to remind us viewers when it was set, and ultimately differentiate it from Trek, B5, Andromeda, Farscape or all the others.

P.S. While I'm aware Farscape was also 'present day', it didn't need to rely on this facet of its premise much except when Crichton came into contact with Earth, so it was alright. Stargate pretty much revolved around the present day setting.

I agree, particularly in what you say about uniform. They're trying to fix it a bit now.. particularly with what Shep now wears, but I personally think all military personnel in Atlantis should be wearing standard forces uniform. Weir should have stuck with her suit. And the civvys, well just give them lab coats if they're scientists, or coveralls like Dr Lee wears. It would have been good to see casual dress as well.

[greenscreen]

I rather enjoyed the Atlantis Uniforms, when I first saw pictures for the first time I was a tad bit confused trying to figure out of it was set in the future or what but I have to say I enjoyed it thouroughly. I love Shep, I love Atlantis, I love Jack and Daniel and Sam and Teal'c and Jonas, I love Stargate SG1. I'm upset they canceled SG1 I'm upset they canceled SGA I'm Upset they cancelled Firefly. I'm upset with the Syndicate, I'm upset with how they run the system and how it works. And I'm a little worried about SGU. I'm worried they're going to keep killing Stargates and kill it the same way they killed Star Trek. I'm upset overall. Though maybe SGU will work out. There will always be fan fics, memories, DVD Box Set's, Gateworld, Fan's, My life.... I'm still worried though.

[Lord Zedd]

Now hear me out here:

Star Gate was a great/rubbish/depending on your view movie that was about gods, aliens and mythology. SG1 was all about exploring the galaxy, OUR militaries going out into the universe. It was still about mythology, and it was worked into nearly every episode (until S7). If it wasn't the goa'uld, it was the Asgard, or some Christian civilisation, or a Jewish civilisation, whatever. It was about culture taken from earth and thrown into the world of sci fi. Now as SG1 began to develop another kind of mythology, the origin of our species, pre mythology if you will, we got a new show to explore that - Atlantis. Sg1 then began to return to religion, gods, and aliens with S9 & 10, even though it got a tad more spacey.

Atlantis was a polar opposite to SG1, it was futuristic, spacey, not about religion but about battles and such. Ok, cool, Atlantis had it's own identity, an equally good but very different identity.

So now we're getting SGU. We all know the deal... it's straying further from Stargate's routes and more into the Sci Fi theme.

Is this what Stargate is really about? Space battles, drones, and such? Maybe Atlantis can pull that off, and can be good at that, but should the Gateverse be dominated by such material so that it becomes nothing more than another ST or BSG?

Stargate used to be different, but it appears to have evolved itself beyond what it originally was. I understand maybe religion can't be the central theme of SGU, and that's fine, but focus massively on space battles and future technology then it is just Atlantis again. Don't get me wrong, SGA was great, but do we need an identical twin for it?

First of all, I'm so happy to read your opinon because I share it. You are absolutly right! You don't even get to see the activation of a stargate anymore. They're allready on the planet or they use the ship. They used to have sometimes episodes involving the Stargate but that has been so long. I really miss the Stargate as a character, same with the city of Atlantis. It was a kind of character, exploring it, ... but now nothing anymore. The city ain't a mystery anymore.

I do wonder what SGU will bring. I hope it will be Stargate again!

[Khentkawes]

I see that I'm alone in my valiant attempt at optimism. *sigh*

That's something I've noticed too, back when SGA was on the cards, everyone was excited. Hardly anyone is now.

Actually, that's just not true. There were people who were worried about Atlantis. I think I've said this before, but apparently it could be repeated. When Atlantis was announced, people heard "stranded in a distant galaxy" and "female leader of the expedition" and started calling Atlantis "Stargate Voyager." They said that it was no longer Stargate but just a rip off of Star Trek, an attempt to recreate Star Trek's success. Sound familiar to anyone? I know I can't be the only one who remembers these comments... right?

My point being that while there seems to be more negativity with SGU, there was plenty of negativity with Atlantis...it's just that a lot of people were won over once they actually saw Atlantis (and many of those who weren't stopped watching it).

For me, the things that make Stargate unique are it's humour, it's action/adventure, that fact that it's set in the present and the Stargate itself. I don't think there are many of other defining characteristics tbh. In fact that's a stretch, really I think all a scifi needs is the Stargate and the humour to be true to the franchise.

I agree. Though personally, I thought the Stargate itself was missing from much of Atlantis.

I certainly can. In fact, you've highlighted one of my big gripes with SGA, which I feel SGU is going to take even further - like you said, the writers can say it's set in the present day, but unless there are recognisable, physical, visual clues (it is after all television, not radio, and our brains are generally wired so that vision is our main sense), it doesn't mean much.
<snip>
SGA didn't have anything like enough of this (and even the new uniforms contributed to this - something as simple as having off duty Atlantis civilians walking around in contemporary, normal clothes, like jeans and t-shirts, would have gone a long way to rectifying this)

I would also agree with this. And while I find the new uniforms irritating, and the lack of casual clothes even more irritating (come on, can't someone wear jeans, for crying out loud?), I think there's another reason why Atlantis doesn't feel present day. It's the attitude. They act way too comfortable going up against big bad aliens, fixing Ancient tech that is supposedly way more advanced than anything they've seen before, and basically feel relaxed about playing god in the Pegasus galaxy. You can argue with that opinion if you'd like, but Atlantis has neither the sense of wonder that SG-1 began with, nor the sense that the expedition is in over their heads, lost in a big bad galaxy, and basically a group of unprepared underdogs. They act way too confident, and seem to think that all of this is normal. I don't care who you are, no one adjusts that fast to being in a brand new galaxy.

I'm hoping that SGU revives that feeling that the main expedition is in way over their heads. I'm hoping they will be unprepared and overwhelmed, not confident super-heroes who seem unfazed by whatever the galaxy throws their way. That would recapture some of the style that I associate with Stargate, and it would also make it seem more like it was set in the present day.

[Sealurk]

I see that I'm alone in my valiant attempt at optimism. *sigh*

Not quite alone, but perhaps in a minority...and your valiant optimism is commendable. I can't speak for anybody else, but I just generally prefer pessimism - you can't be disappointed as easily if your expectations are already low.

Actually, that's just not true. There were people who were worried about Atlantis. I think I've said this before, but apparently it could be repeated. When Atlantis was announced, people heard "stranded in a distant galaxy" and "female leader of the expedition" and started calling Atlantis "Stargate Voyager." They said that it was no longer Stargate but just a rip off of Star Trek, an attempt to recreate Star Trek's success. Sound familiar to anyone? I know I can't be the only one who remembers these comments... right?

Actually, you might be, but I'd argue (a little uncertainly, admittedly) that the ratio of naysayers to fans rabid with anticipation was very different with SGA, compared to the apparently pretty large cross section of SG fans who think SGU is the wrong way to go with the franchise.

I think there's another reason why Atlantis doesn't feel present day. It's the attitude. They act way too comfortable going up against big bad aliens, fixing Ancient tech that is supposedly way more advanced than anything they've seen before, and basically feel relaxed about playing god in the Pegasus galaxy. You can argue with that opinion if you'd like, but Atlantis has neither the sense of wonder that SG-1 began with, nor the sense that the expedition is in over their heads, lost in a big bad galaxy, and basically a group of unprepared underdogs. They act way too confident, and seem to think that all of this is normal. I don't care who you are, no one adjusts that fast to being in a brand new galaxy.

Absolutely - I totally agree. SG-1's sense of wonder and being 'the new guys' set it apart, to some degree, from the other sci-fi series at the time, magnificently aided by the present day setting and use of contemporary tech for most of the early seasons. SGA never really had this, except for the occasional moment in Rising perhaps.

I'm hoping that SGU revives that feeling that the main expedition is in way over their heads. I'm hoping they will be unprepared and overwhelmed, not confident super-heroes who seem unfazed by whatever the galaxy throws their way. That would recapture some of the style that I associate with Stargate, and it would also make it seem more like it was set in the present day.

Sorry, but if they didn't do it with Atlantis...sorry, pessimistic old me again. I just can't see anything likeable in the admittedly sketchy details I've heard about SGU. Time will tell.

[Flyboy]

I see that I'm alone in my valiant attempt at optimism. *sigh*



Actually, that's just not true. There were people who were worried about Atlantis. I think I've said this before, but apparently it could be repeated. When Atlantis was announced, people heard "stranded in a distant galaxy" and "female leader of the expedition" and started calling Atlantis "Stargate Voyager." They said that it was no longer Stargate but just a rip off of Star Trek, an attempt to recreate Star Trek's success. Sound familiar to anyone? I know I can't be the only one who remembers these comments... right?

My point being that while there seems to be more negativity with SGU, there was plenty of negativity with Atlantis...it's just that a lot of people were won over once they actually saw Atlantis (and many of those who weren't stopped watching it).



I agree. Though personally, I thought the Stargate itself was missing from much of Atlantis.



I would also agree with this. And while I find the new uniforms irritating, and the lack of casual clothes even more irritating (come on, can't someone wear jeans, for crying out loud?), I think there's another reason why Atlantis doesn't feel present day. It's the attitude. They act way too comfortable going up against big bad aliens, fixing Ancient tech that is supposedly way more advanced than anything they've seen before, and basically feel relaxed about playing god in the Pegasus galaxy. You can argue with that opinion if you'd like, but Atlantis has neither the sense of wonder that SG-1 began with, nor the sense that the expedition is in over their heads, lost in a big bad galaxy, and basically a group of unprepared underdogs. They act way too confident, and seem to think that all of this is normal. I don't care who you are, no one adjusts that fast to being in a brand new galaxy.

I'm hoping that SGU revives that feeling that the main expedition is in way over their heads. I'm hoping they will be unprepared and overwhelmed, not confident super-heroes who seem unfazed by whatever the galaxy throws their way. That would recapture some of the style that I associate with Stargate, and it would also make it seem more like it was set in the present day.

I completely agree with your comments about SGA arrogance. It's something I can forgive in ONE show, but certainly not if that's what Stargate as a whole becomes. Stargate should not EVER be about humans easily bandying about massively advanced technology and solving every situation with a ship and drones and what not.

[Khentkawes]

Not quite alone, but perhaps in a minority...and your valiant optimism is commendable. I can't speak for anybody else, but I just generally prefer pessimism - you can't be disappointed as easily if your expectations are already low.

Truth be told, I'm normally a pessimist myself. I'm trying to turn over a new leaf.

Actually, you might be, but I'd argue (a little uncertainly, admittedly) that the ratio of naysayers to fans rabid with anticipation was very different with SGA, compared to the apparently pretty large cross section of SG fans who think SGU is the wrong way to go with the franchise.

That's probably true. It seems like the naysayers with Atlantis weren't as numerous as with SGU (though I partially attribute that to the fact that they knew SG-1 was continuing), but still, not everyone was excited about the show. I was new to Stargate when Atlantis premiered, so I remember being puzzled by the skepticism some fans expressed about Atlantis.

[Flyboy]

I remember I was absolutely buzzing about it, without a single doubt, with the exception of the fact it was going to be a civilian operation, which I read to mean NO military at all. But then, we knew that it was still going to be Stargate at heart...

[trabanom]

To me, SGA is a completely failure. They went to the City and get nothing back: they never find a way to produce a ZPM, a drone or even a Aurora class ship. In few month earth could replicate Asgard tech but never anything from the city. They kept exploring planets and never studied the city completely.
According to GW, Daniel Jackson will discovery a hidden lab from Janus despite never been in the city for more them few days. SGA team stood there for 5 years and creating problems where they went.
Although SGA had a very good episodes, i think they never get what really should: knowledge of the Alterans.

[Khentkawes]

I completely agree with your comments about SGA arrogance. It's something I can forgive in ONE show, but certainly not if that's what Stargate as a whole becomes. Stargate should not EVER be about humans easily bandying about massively advanced technology and solving every situation with a ship and drones and what not.

I'm not sure I can even completely forgive that kind of arrogance in one show. But I agree, if that aspect carries over into SGU (or comes to characterize Stargate as a whole) then I will not be a happy camper.

Still, as I think you've said elsewhere, they could make Universe more military focused, and show more of the effects of the expedition/team being stranded in a distant galaxy (like running out of supplies or something... kinda like early Farscape when they had to beg, borrow, steal, and occasionally go hungry). With SG-1, they originally had to struggle with finding technology and figuring out how to make it work (or failing to make it work). We saw a little of that in Atlantis, but I'd like to see more. It would help capture that overwhelming sense of wonder and confusion that really plays a big role in a lot of sci-fi. Besides, it's more fun to watch the underdog struggle against seemingly insurmountable odds, than to see powerful heroes that can apparently take on an entire galaxy single-handedly.

What makes me wonder if the team on SGU will need to make allies the way SG-1 tried to in the beginning.

[Sealurk]

Still, as I think you've said elsewhere, they could make Universe more military focused, and show more of the effects of the expedition/team being stranded in a distant galaxy (like running out of supplies or something... kinda like early Farscape when they had to beg, borrow, steal, and occasionally go hungry).

That sounds...like the first glimmer of hope I've heard for SGU. Okay, it's a tiny little spark, not least because it's speculation, but the mere potential for this to become a part of SGU has suddenly made it all a bit more appealing.

Don't worry - TPTB will ensure the Ancient ship has replicators (Star Trek variety, not Stargate) and has frequent contact with Earth even if they can't return.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

To me, SGA is a completely failure. They went to the City and get nothing back: they never find a way to produce a ZPM, a drone or even a Aurora class ship. In few month earth could replicate Asgard tech but never anything from the city. They kept exploring planets and never studied the city completely.
According to GW, Daniel Jackson will discovery a hidden lab from Janus despite never been in the city for more them few days. SGA team stood there for 5 years and creating problems where they went.
Although SGA had a very good episodes, i think they never get what really should: knowledge of the Alterans.

I agree. TPTB focused completely on the wrongs things with SGA. The focuses should have been Atlantis, the Ancients, the Wraith, and the dynamics of the expedition. The themes should have been: exploration (of the galaxy AND Atlantis), the 100 yr war, pre-war Pegasus, Pegasus's inhabitants, Ancient culture.

SG-1's identity was Earth mythology in a scifi context. The entire show revolved around combating false gods and exploring new cultures. And yet, it kept the theme of the Stargate as the primary portal to the galaxy.


SGA's identity should have been the Ancients. The show should have revolved around the Ancients, in everything they encountered. This does not mean having every enemy and every problem be a screw-up of the Ancients. I think that ruined the show as well. SGA had no one to "look up" to. SG-1 had races like the Asgard and Tollan, refined civilizations who guided them. Atlantis had no one. Although it was impossible to have the Stargate as the primary means of transport, I think they've done well with combining the space and stargate aspects. Of course, they needed to actually show the gate.

So, what will SGU's identity be? Exploration of alien races and postmodern civilizations, in a nonmythological context? I think a major difference should be that the civilizations are not human and advanced. It would almost have to be, unless the first ship seeded human life as well. SGU really needs to be a refreshing addition to the Stargate Franchise, not just another show or "fix" as Howe likes to put it. Because honestly, that's what SGA seems like, a fix. There's no depth, no complexity, no development or involvement. SGU's tptb will have to work extra hard to produce a quality show, especially because the premise is so basic. I think SGU needs to have a military/civilian balance. However, the civilian aspect should not be just scientists and doctors because, well, SGA had that. But also, it shouldn't just be military because, well, SG-1 had that. I think the civilian aspect should be in the form of NASA scientists, or any sort of space program scientists (or engineers)/ doctors. However, I do have a question- what sort of leadership will there be? Will it be just the core team?

[Khentkawes]

That sounds...like the first glimmer of hope I've heard for SGU. Okay, it's a tiny little spark, not least because it's speculation, but the mere potential for this to become a part of SGU has suddenly made it all a bit more appealing.

Then my job here is done. Almost.

Honestly, I think that I have evidence for my "stranded and overwhelmed" theory. TPTB said "Character-based" (not necessarily "romantic relationships-based, so not necessarily "soap opera-ish"), and they said "desperate" and "stranded." So maybe...

I agree. TPTB focused completely on the wrongs things with SGA. The focuses should have been Atlantis, the Ancients, the Wraith, and the dynamics of the expedition. The themes should have been: exploration (of the galaxy AND Atlantis), the 100 yr war, pre-war Pegasus, Pegasus's inhabitants, Ancient culture.

SG-1's identity was Earth mythology in a scifi context. The entire show revolved around combating false gods and exploring new cultures. And yet, it kept the theme of the Stargate as the primary portal to the galaxy.

<snipped for length>

I agree. Actually, I've always said that the Ancients weren't properly explored in Atlantis (despite all the hype about the Ancient when the show started). And I missed the mythology and exploration of new cultures. Those were two things that defined Stargate before Atlantis came along.