Stargate and Nudity

[rlr149]

Like I said, All I ask is not to be forced away. Refer to my discussion with rlr149 for details.

and may the force be with you.

its your beliefs forcing you away, nothing else

[Madeleine]

And what I ask for is not to be forced to use the zapper on this show.

David Letterman makes me think violent thoughts. Luckily, me being english, he's only appeared on my TV twice in my life, but both times I felt an urge to kick something.

This was in the days when I had to walk across the room to turn the television off, but the principle is the same and I don't expect the BBC to consider "protecting madeleine from inappropriate thoughts and saving the batteries in her remote" as a priority, if ever they choose to air a show on which he is a guest or something.

[aretood2]

its your beliefs forcing you away, nothing else

I could argue that this is relative to your point of view. Or in other words, a matter of opinion, a subjective "truth"

But would it really make much of a difference if I were to argue this? Even If I had good reasoning from your POV, would it make you think any different?

[jenks]

They're under no obligation to make a show that you (specifically) want to see. Now you can ask that they do, but you can't, and shouldn't, expect it.

[Gregorius]

Is the "minority" really that small?

On the superbowl debate, here is what Wikipedia says:

"the FCC received nearly 540,000 complaints from Americans"

I wouldn't exactly call that a small number.

Notice the word "Vocal". Just because they received "540,000" complaints doesn't mean 540,000 Americans complained (I like how you are distorting things by merely mentioning the number of compaints, although I can't really blame you as the media does it all the time...).

Besides, compared to the number of people who watched the superbowl "144.4 million viewers" (according to Wikipedia), it's an insignicant number (0.374%). So it's definately a minority who, in my opinion, has way too much power by being so vocal about their values.

Who cares about a nipple? Especially one who's been obscured by a piercing and by the distance from the camera? If people get upset about that they should get upset about women breast feeding their children...

[Pandora's_Box]

Notice the word "Vocal". Just because they received "540,000" complaints doesn't mean 540,000 Americans complained (I like how you are distorting things by merely mentioning the number of compaints, although I can't really blame you as the media does it all the time...).

Besides, compared to the number of people who watched the superbowl "144.4 million viewers" (according to Wikipedia), it's an insignicant number (0.374%). So it's definately a minority who, in my opinion, has way too much power by being so vocal about their values.

Who cares about a nipple? Especially one who's been obscured by a piercing and by the distance from the camera? If people get upset about that they should get upset about women breast feeding their children...

Let's not go down that road. There are people that get upset about women breast-feeding in public places. All I have to say to that is...

If you were in a mall and decided you were hungry and went to buy yourself a hamburger, how would you like to then take that hamburger and enjoy it a dingy mall washroom, replete with the smells of other people's bodily fluids? I don't mean you personally, but the general "you".

But I agree with your sentiments regarding Nipple-gate. It was overblown and too much attention was payed to a nothing "controversy" because a very small minority of people decided to be very vocal about the situation. And then that started a whole bout of censorship issues that would normally have sent the country into a frenzy, but in this case, ellicited no more than a whimper for the most part. Silly, silly, silly. And sad.

[Gregorius]

That number is like a sample, so we should asume that for every caller, many more were also offended but never called in.

Wow, and that would raise it to what? Perhaps a staggering 5% if I'm very optimistic (7.22 Million people that would be). Which still leaves 95% of the people not caring about it.

So because of, lets say, 5% of the people 95% has to suffer further restriction on their telly and the networks involved have to pay fines? Talk about a tyranny of the minority.

The day ofter it happend and I went to school, almost everyone was complaining about it. My one teacher said she was really offened because she had young children watching it. And look at my state, it's not we're known for being very conservative like the south or something.

In the Netherlands there was a prime time show where a man was walking naked for a few minutes while a 6 y/o was on the phone and watching the show and no one cared about it. Really, there is something wrong with a society when you get offended about that obscured nipple (Just as there is something wrong, imo, when you start bleeping out words. Children won't be protected from hearing or acquiring those words since their parents will use them too).

There's something rotten in society when thousands of people feel the need to complain about a nipple, but for gratuitous violence no one turns a hair.

Exactly. A person getting killed in a series or film in the most brutal way possible is okay, but a nipple?! THE HORROR! Children might start to believe it's "Make love, not war" instead of "Make war, not love".

[Gregorius]

Let's not go down that road. There are people that get upset about women breast-feeding in public places. All I have to say to that is...

It's the same thing really and it's relevant to the discussion so why should I not go down that road? Because it's inconvenient to your arguments?

As I said before, those people that get upset are a small, vocal, minority and the rest of us shouldn't have to suffer because _they_ don't want to see it.

Below this is an error on my part, please ignore it (I placed it in spoiler tags in case anyone wants to read how badly I screwed up).

Spoiler:

If you were in a mall and decided you were hungry and went to buy yourself a hamburger, how would you like to then take that hamburger and enjoy it a dingy mall washroom, replete with the smells of other people's bodily fluids? I don't mean you personally, but the general "you".

The general "me" wouldn't care. I'm a student, we eat and drink in washrooms at parties or when we don't care to clean the kitchen.

And besides that it's a bad analogy; let me give you a better one:

You go to a swimming pool, in the midst of summer, and you buy yourself a hamburger after you've been swimming for some time; all around you are topless women sunbathing. Now the questions are this:
1) Do you care?
2) Is the hamburger relevant for the analogy?

Or an even better one: You're in a sauna and you see naked people all around you; do you care?

But I agree with your sentiments regarding Nipple-gate. It was overblown and too much attention was payed to a nothing "controversy" because a very small minority of people decided to be very vocal about the situation. And then that started a whole bout of censorship issues that would normally have sent the country into a frenzy, but in this case, ellicited no more than a whimper for the most part. Silly, silly, silly. And sad.

In Europe we were laughing our arses off and the Americans who were here were terribly ashamed of their compatriots. We, Europeans and those Americans, didn't quite get why it was such a controversy.

[Gregorius]

And what I ask for is not to be forced to use the zapper on this show.

And because of people who share your views other people who don't have to suffer? If TPTB want nudity in the show (Watch the series Rome) it's their choice and if you don't like it then you either zap away or stop watching the show, but don't try to enforce your values onto TPTB or other people watching the show.

Everyone uses the bathroom as well, why not show that on TV? I would think it's because of a part of life people don't want to think about / think it's gross. Growing up, parents and other people would always say, that the parts you can't show on TV, were "gross" if someone mentioned them.

They do? Here those words are commonly used as greetings or cursewords. Few people here say "gross" when they hear children say those words, instead they'll say something like "It's impolite to say that to a person" but as the children grow older people don't care much about it.

I'm thinking the attitude is is that someone's nudity is very private, no one else is supposed to see it and you're not supposed to show it someone.

That's one attitude, there are many others.

Here is my somewhat bad anology to describe this: Nudity is like a Social Security Number. Your number is private, only to be known by you, close family, spouse, job/employment (doctors in nudity example). If someone gets a hold of your number bad things will happen such as Identiy theft, and in our nudity example put pictures of you're nudity up on certain websites.

It's a bad analogy because by your logic the following goes: If someone, other than those you mentioned, sees me nude my pictures get posted online. Thus by applying that logic we get that if I go into a locker room and get changed and people see me nude my pictures are online. That really makes sense.

[Pandora's_Box]

It's the same thing really and it's relevant to the discussion so why should I not go down that road? Because it's inconvenient to your arguments?

As I said before, those people that get upset are a small, vocal, minority and the rest of us shouldn't have to suffer because _they_ don't want to see it.

And I completely agree. My, "Let's not go down that road" was said more out of an instinctual desire to not see someone come and post as to the "wrongness" of breast-feeding in public. I was just being sighing with words, really. Of course you can say whatever you like.

The general "me" wouldn't care. I'm a student, we eat and drink in washrooms at parties or when we don't care to clean the kitchen.

And besides that it's a bad analogy; let me give you a better one:

You go to a swimming pool, in the midst of summer, and you buy yourself a hamburger after you've been swimming for some time; all around you are topless women sunbathing. Now the questions are this:
1) Do you care?
2) Is the hamburger relevant for the analogy?

Or an even better one: You're in a sauna and you see naked people all around you; do you care?

How is that a better analogy?

I was making the point that a baby eating has the right to do so in comfortable pleasant surroundings, rather than in a dingy mall washroom like some people would like breast-feeding mothers to do.

Please, go ahead and eat wherever you like, but why should your standards for the right and okay places to eat be imposed on anyone else? Simply because you don't mind eating in washrooms, doesn't mean everyone feels the same. That's similar to imposing one's moral standards against nudity on other people.

[Gregorius]

How is that a better analogy?

I was making the point that a baby eating has the right to do so in comfortable pleasant surroundings, rather than in a dingy mall washroom like some people would like breast-feeding mothers to do.

Sorry, I misread the analogy. I thought it had something to do the bathroom analogy that was posted earlier and not breast feeding (Serves me right by writing a few posts at the same time). Please ignore that part of my reply.

Anyway, now that I got it in the proper context, and thanks for that, I agree with you. The only time a baby should get in one of those washrooms is when he needs to gets his diaper changed, otherwise he should stay away from there (Well that and computer keyboards which are even filthier than toilets).

Please, go ahead and eat wherever you like, but why should your standards for the right and okay places to eat be imposed on anyone else? Simply because you don't mind eating in washrooms, doesn't mean everyone feels the same. That's similar to imposing one's moral standards against nudity on other people.

I agree.

[Pandora's_Box]

Sorry, I misread the analogy. I thought it had something to do the bathroom analogy that was posted earlier and not breast feeding (Serves me right by writing a few posts at the same time). Please ignore that part of my reply.

Anyway, now that I got it in the proper context, and thanks for that, I agree with you. The only time a baby should get in one of those washrooms is when he needs to gets his diaper changed, otherwise he should stay away from there (Well that and computer keyboards which are even filthier than toilets).

No worries. And did I miss something? Was there a previous post about bathrooms and nudity and eating?!
Or are you referring to the post about nudity amongst strangers in public changerooms and the like?

I agree.

I figured we saw eye to eye on this issue, so I was a little confused myself. Glad we're clear.

I will chime in and say that we Canadians, found Nipple-gate both highly amusing and not wholly unexpected.

[Gregorius]

No worries. And did I miss something? Was there a previous post about bathrooms and nudity and eating?!
Or are you referring to the post about nudity amongst strangers in public changerooms and the like?

The latter and then I mixed things up.

I will chime in and say that we Canadians, found Nipple-gate both highly amusing and not wholly unexpected.

Don't say that out loud, soon they'll start singing "Blame it on Canada" and blame nipplegate on Canada's seductive influence.

[Womble]

Exactly. A person getting killed in a series or film in the most brutal way possible is okay, but a nipple?! THE HORROR! Children might start to believe it's "Make love, not war" instead of "Make war, not love".

Children "making love" is precisely one of the issues here. If you believe that watching movie violence can cause children to become more violent, then what will watching sex scenes cause them to become?

In Europe we were laughing our arses off and the Americans who were here were terribly ashamed of their compatriots.

European arses generally seem to have a quick-detachable design.

[rlr149]

I could argue that this is relative to your point of view. Or in other words, a matter of opinion, a subjective "truth"

ok, give me the name of the person making you watch questionable morality on television. i will go round and have a word for you, i'd say its completely unfair of them to make you watch television at all, but stuff you think is wrong too!!!! what is the world coming too i'd possibly kill them for you, only if they won't change their 'evil' ways ofc, i'd do the same if I was forced to watch 'big brother 9')

But would it really make much of a difference if I were to argue this? Even If I had good reasoning from your POV, would it make you think any different?

yes, yes it would.