Stargate and Nudity

[Daedalus-304]

Why?

Immoral always, regardless of context?

Immoral because it is suggestive of sex?

Usually with nudity, people always associate it with sex.

Immoral because it offends?

I would say it offends because people believe it to be immoral.

(NB - there are no end of willies, breasts, bums etc in renaissance and post-renaissance paintings. Go to the Louvre or the gallery off trafalgar square or whatever your local equivalent is, and tell me that people were squeamish about nudity in the olden days!)

But there was debate about it. I thought I heard in school once that Michelangelo was asked to cover up nudes in the Sistine Chapel.

It's as justifyable as a wetsuit, a shroud, a ballgown or any other item of attire that is seldom worn but is worn nonetheless

You could write all TV without ever a wetsuit or a ballgown, but why put restrictions on yourself?

But those things are debated for morality. Someone where a wetsuit on TV and no one cares. Someone goes fully nude on TV, and the FCC gets a few hundred complaints.

[Coco Pops]

That's because in general humans have dirty minds. That's why they associate nudity with sex...

[LostCityGuardian]

More work towards my point. I had a conversation about tv once with a co worker of mine. She said something along these lines if memory serves me right:
"I swear that today movie makers write up a movie and then after that they tell each other that they need to put nude people in just to be hip"

Glad to oblige.

[Coco Pops]

Glad to oblige.

This quote from Neil Gaiman sums this and a lot of other stuff up

And the other thing is Hollywood executives really love the smell of
their own urine and what they really like doing is urinating on things.
And then going, "Hmm, now this smells really good" and being really
puzzled when the rest of the world goes "No, actually it smells like pee."

—Neil Gaiman

[LostCityGuardian]

Lol. Crude but funny.

[aretood2]

Lol. Crude but funny.

And true...so true.

now say you saw it on a week with no nudity, really liked the awesome writing and characters, would you expect sci fi to change it because you now like it? and retrospectively remove it from previous episodes

I would like to think that I would be able to tell such apart such a show. But it takes more than one episode to get me hoked on a show, the second time I would just avoid it.

About bribing Sci Fi, that is just mean, to the makers of the show and the little group that says nay...

One question, wouldn't that be cause of removal from regular tv? Like Showtime?

[Seastallion]

(NB - there are no end of willies, breasts, bums etc in renaissance and post-renaissance paintings. Go to the Louvre or the gallery off trafalgar square or whatever your local equivalent is, and tell me that people were squeamish about nudity in the olden days!)

Yeah, that was pretty much my point too. There's a lot of prudish folks out there, and when it comes down to it, it is kinda dumb. Really, why should people be so uptight about something that is as natural as it gets. Your born naked, animals are all naked (with the exceptions of those that people dress up, but even they're usually still partly naked), and the fact is that clothing started out as a utilitarian item, that eventually took on status symbology. Heck, even makeup originally started out as sunblock. My point is, clothing is a TOOL. It isn't something your born with, therefore is by definition itself un-natural. That isn't an argument against clothing, just a point that nakedness isn't evil or bad. It just is. Nor sex for that matter. Well, maybe SOME kinds of sex... but in general, no.

[rlr149]

Ahem.... check my profile.. I'n no way a teen...

i did say 'guessing'

But I have a wonderful imagination and have a lot of short stories I have written, mostly for myself with many and varied ideas. I am just saying that maybe sack some of these adults that have lost their creativity and emply some youngsters with fresh minds.

its a fair thing to say but just because you do write, doesn't mean your writings good(i've not read yours so i don't know)

[Coco Pops]

Yeah, that was pretty much my point too. There's a lot of prudish folks out there, and when it comes down to it, it is kinda dumb. Really, why should people be so uptight about something that is as natural as it gets. Your born naked, animals are all naked (with the exceptions of those that people dress up, but even they're usually still partly naked), and the fact is that clothing started out as a utilitarian item, that eventually took on status symbology. Heck, even makeup originally started out as sunblock. My point is, clothing is a TOOL. It isn't something your born with, therefore is by definition itself un-natural. That isn't an argument against clothing, just a point that nakedness isn't evil or bad. It just is. Nor sex for that matter. Well, maybe SOME kinds of sex... but in general, no.

Well hey if we ever discover parallel worlds just think there's an Earth where everyone is naked and clothing is viewed as some kind of fun oddity for people to play with.

On the other hand there are occasions where it is necessary like working in dangerous areas, riding a motorbike, or driving a car. You can't really do those fully naked.

[aretood2]

Again with the "It is Natural" talk

...
Yes, but man has been using cloths since, well, ever. Sure you could talk about our "Ape" stage of evolution, but if that was the case, we weren't human then.

So one can argue that cloths are natural. Besides, the word "Natural" can also be a Social Fact, not a scientific fact.
...

At this point things will repeat. Count me out of this thread for at least one page if that happens.

[rlr149]

I would like to think that I would be able to tell such apart such a show. But it takes more than one episode to get me hoked on a show, the second time I would just avoid it.

yes, but the writing, chars etc etc are better than even stargate in this hypothetical show, you've seen one episode, like it!!(thats just how good this show is) now because you like it, should sci-fi change it because of your moral indignation to a single aspect of the show? even though it may not have been made for you initially

About bribing Sci Fi, that is just mean, to the makers of the show and the little group that says nay...

its not bribing, its a commission, just like asking a painter to paint a picture of something specific, and you paying him for it. you don't think Michelangelo was 'bribed' to paint the Sistine chapel do you?

One question, wouldn't that be cause of removal from regular tv? Like Showtime?

thats not the point i'm getting at

[Seastallion]

Well hey if we ever discover parallel worlds just think there's an Earth where everyone is naked and clothing is viewed as some kind of fun oddity for people to play with.

On the other hand there are occasions where it is necessary like working in dangerous areas, riding a motorbike, or driving a car. You can't really do those fully naked.

Which goes back to my point about clothing being tools. I seriously doubt anyone would go around welding while naked (among other things) simply because it isn't safe or wise. Then again, welding isn't a 'natural' act in so far as our biology isn't adapted to it. However, our brains allow us the intelligence to compensate for what our biology lacks. Thus tools, of which we now have a mind-boggling number of. Just an additional point, even clothes that aren't utilitarian these days are still 'tools'. Often they are used to represent status such as uniforms, OR the clothing the wealthy wear as opposed to the 'poor'. (Thus the old uniform vs. informal clothing argument in schools) Of course, one utilitarian function of SOME clothing is less obvious. Such as lingerie. Women go to Victoria's Secret (among other similiar places) to buy clothing with a specific purpose. To seduce. It isn't utilitarian in the conventional sense, but it IS designed as an aid for a specific task, and thus a TOOL.

In general though, clothing is there to keep us warm, since we evolved from a much warmer climate in general, and then headed out all over the Earth to less hospitable places, where our lack of fur didn't do us much good. But, being the good little tool makers we are, we soon fixed that.

[aretood2]

yes, but the writing, chars etc etc are better than even stargate in this hypothetical show, you've seen one episode, like it!!(thats just how good this show is) now because you like it, should sci-fi change it because of your moral indignation to a single aspect of the show? even though it may not have been made for you initially

If it does, then I would be happy, but if nobody wishes this, then so be it. It picked its audience from the beginning. As long as 8 year olds are discouraged from watching then I would not care. If I have been watching it for years and then it added things such as nudity, I would be quite angry.

its not bribing, its a commission, just like asking a painter to paint a picture of something specific, and you paying him for it. you don't think Michelangelo was 'bribed' to paint the Sistine chapel do you?

I'm protestant, do you really want me to answer that question regarding Michelangelo?
I used that word incorrectly, on purpose.

thats not the point i'm getting at

I know your point. I was also stating a different point that there would be debate within the network before they even think of agreeing to your commission. SGA could always move on to another channel, like Spike or USA and the like.

[Seastallion]

^ Obviously you've been reading the X-wing series..! I love that series..! I think they are my favorite Star Wars books.


...oh, and nudity is bad or something... (just to sort of stay on topic!)

[aretood2]

actualy it is a long story on how I got that quote, perhaps on another thread before Big Brother shuts us down for exercising our right to go of topic...