Stargate and Nudity

[aretood2]

rlr149

are you getting hostile with me? I never mentioned that my society is better.

My example with the Diet meant that a Jew (With a big 'J') is not an idiot cause he won't eat some foods due to his Morality. The same thing goes for a Monotheist who will not watch certain things cause of his morality. It does not lead to Madness, it leads to inner peace or for me salvation (Not that I feel that if I die now I will go to Heaven).

The comment about money was cause this is a TV show. In order for a TV show like Stargate to survive, it needs money. Not having Nudity allows the possibility for more money thus having the resources for good writers (Lets not discuss their current skills here) and the such to keep it going.

Are you getting hostile with me?

[rlr149]

rlr149

aretoad2

are you getting hostile with me?

no

I never mentioned that my society is better.

but you did ask what i thought about the relative merits.......... would you rather i lie about my opinion?

My example with the Diet meant that a Jew (With a big 'J') is not an idiot cause he won't eat some foods due to his Morality. The same thing goes for a Monotheist who will not watch certain things cause of his morality. It does not lead to Madness, it leads to inner peace or for me salvation (Not that I feel that if I die now I will go to Heaven).

the bold is just an expression, you do seem to effectively be advocating an insular society though, where new ideas aren't really allowed because of tradition/belief/society's current rules. its a 'progress' killer. not all progress is good!! but you can't stop time either

The comment about money was cause this is a TV show. In order for a TV show like Stargate to survive, it needs money. Not having Nudity allows the possibility for more money thus having the resources for good writers (Lets not discuss their current skills here) and the such to keep it going.

i'd rather have a short run of quality than a long run designed with the lowest common denominator in mind. lets face it, its only those who have a problem of nudity that are complaining about their embarrassment, as though it should be my problem too

Are you getting hostile with me?

no, again.....

[Womble]

you do seem to effectively be advocating an insular society though, where new ideas aren't really allowed because of tradition/belief/society's current rules. its a 'progress' killer. not all progress is good!! but you can't stop time either

When they shout "Long live progress," always ask- "Progress of what?"

And no, that is not what he is advocating. He is saying that if people believe things you don't, it doesn't mean they are stupid. They simply have reasons to believe otherwise.

[aretood2]

I see your point.

Provide a place were we can agrue about your comments of an "Insular Society" and I will gladly debate it. But I also ask you to see my point. Why should I be forced away from what I feel to be a good show due to the desires of others, like seeing nudity? Does that sound like a tolerant society?

I might tolerate partial nudity to a point, Does this sound as an good compromise? But don't we already have this?

Or could we have both, one channel or time slot shows nudity while the other doesn't?

Would it even be worth it at this point in the franchise to do anything on the subject?

EDIT
PS I take a few minutes to type up my responses, so what Womble said.

[LostCityGuardian]

I do agree that that kind of violence is not suitable for young children and should only be shown at a later timeslot.

Though that leaves the question what time is acceptable for that leel of violence. Correct me if im wrong but Stargate SG1 used to air at 9:00pm on Friday nights in the USA so clearly that level of violence IS suitable for a 9:00pm timeslot. Young children should already be in bed so they wont see it. If that is the case for violence (only show it after a certain time) why can it not be the same for nudity.

That all makes sense. The Talion that I saw on TV had been banished to a 3pm slot on a Saturday afternoon, which is I guess a time slot that is likely to be watched by young children. So the level of violence was I think inappropriate for 6 or 7 year old kids watching some afternoon TV (although I did feel a little ripped off even so).

by the time most kids are 13 or 14 they have most probably already seen pornography (probably on the internet) which can be very graphic so abit of nudity is not going to worry them.

That's of course a fair point. Material far more graphic than a little full frontal from Sha're is readily accessible. Whether this is in the form of kids looking at porn on the net or, if their parents try to stop this, kids seeing the Playboy that one of their mates brings to school. This is not to say that nudity should be gratuitously thrown through SGA, but maybe should lead to TPTB considering whether nudity should be introduced if a scene truly justifies it, rather than Brad Wright ruling it out outright.

[Daedalus-304]

the bold is just an expression, you do seem to effectively be advocating an insular society though, where new ideas aren't really allowed because of tradition/belief/society's current rules. its a 'progress' killer. not all progress is good!! but you can't stop time either

I would say having nudity on TV is different than the free spread of Ideas. To me the spread of ideas would be to talk about things, basically the freedom of speech. For example, free speech would be to say: people should be able to get naked in public. It would not be free speech to actually get naked in public because that is against the law.

Also I would point out that Progress is not a linear line. A society must choose which direction it wants to go, and whether or not it want to reject that it (considering nudity, it seems like society has rejected it, from the number of complaints the FCC gets about these things.)

lets face it, its only those who have a problem of nudity that are complaining about their embarrassment, as though it should be my problem too

How do you know it's embarrassment that people have a problem with? Like I said before many people don't see a difference between nudity and porn (Note: I'm not saying this is the correct view, I'm just saying it's a view that many people have). Because of this view, they think having it on TV is immoral. People who have a problem with violence on TV or anything else, don't complain about it because they are embarrassed by it, but because they think it is wrong / harmful for society.

[rlr149]

When they shout "Long live progress," always ask- "Progress of what?"

anything and everything, you can stagnate if you wish, don't force it on the rest of us though.

And no, that is not what he is advocating. He is saying that if people believe things you don't, it doesn't mean they are stupid. They simply have reasons to believe otherwise.

doesn't mean they're not stupid reasons.......... and if you're basing your entire attitude on those stupid reasons then its likely to effect your other reasoning...... like a complex equation but you get an answer of 5 for the first (x*2){where x = 2}...... each successive answer along the equation goes farther and farther from where it should be if you had got the initial (x*2) correct

or like a small mistake(along the lines of a misplaced decimal point) calculating intergalactic hyperdrive co-ords............ you'll be off your final destination by more than walking distance anyway

how many people has nudity killed/hurt, how many people have been killed with violence, why is nudity abhorred? and violence almost celebrated? seems fundamentally very wrong to me, especially when it comes from the 'life is precious' brigade

[LostCityGuardian]

When they shout "Long live progress," always ask- "Progress of what?"

And no, that is not what he is advocating. He is saying that if people believe things you don't, it doesn't mean they are stupid. They simply have reasons to believe otherwise.

Ha. You and I actually agree on something. Very true.

[rlr149]

How do you know it's embarrassment that people have a problem with? Like I said before many people don't see a difference between nudity and porn (Note: I'm not saying this is the correct view, I'm just saying it's a view that many people have). Because of this view, they think having it on TV is immoral. People who have a problem with violence on TV or anything else, don't complain about it because they are embarrassed by it, but because they think it is wrong / harmful for society.

just 2 from this thread that i can remember off the top of my head

deadalus 304 : What do you mean strange, they use these techniques all the time. This allows viewers to know that they are nude, but in a way that they don't see anything embarrassing.

and

Originally Posted by Londo Molari
I agree that in real life violence and torture is horrendous stuff, as opposed to swearing and nudity, which is, AT WORSE, just "rude".

But like Wright said, its a family show. That means I wanna be able to watch it with my mom and dad in the room. When tits or sex scenes show up, I get uncomfortable... don't wanna share that with my parents u know... AWKWARD!

[aretood2]

First of all, It seems to me that you just want to see naked people on TV. The characters in Stargate have seen plenty of naked people on screen. There is Ernest, in that one episode where Daniel finds the meaning of life thing.
Then when Daniel came back from the land of the Ascended.
Then when Shepperd saw that lady naked in "The Tower" on SGA

Nudity is in the plot, we just can't see it all. You are advocating nothing, unless you just want to see Lorne's "hot" body as someone on this thread stated. I am talking to any one person.

now a direct response.

anything and everything, you can stagnate if you wish, don't force it on the rest of us though.

yet you can force your ways on us? That does not make sense.

doesn't mean they're not stupid reasons.......... and if you're basing your entire attitude on those stupid reasons then its likely to effect your other reasoning...... like a complex equation but you get an answer of 5 for the first (x*2){where x = 2}...... each successive answer along the equation goes farther and farther from where it should be if you had got the initial (x*2) correct

Arrogance is not a good thing. Your line of thought is that our reasoning is stupid. well if a=b and b=c then a=c
if our reasoning is stupid then our beliefs are stupid thus we are stupid. I have not done the same. I just challenged your reasoning and put mine to the test. So far I have found mine to be better for me. Test everything, hold on too the good that is true progress.

or like a small mistake(along the lines of a misplaced decimal point) calculating intergalactic hyperdrive co-ords............ you'll be off your final destination by more than walking distance anyway

so we are wrong and you are right just cause your Idea is "New" and anything old is bad?

how many people has nudity killed/hurt, how many people have been killed with violence, why is nudity abhorred? and violence almost celebrated? seems fundamentally very wrong to me, especially when it comes from the 'life is precious' brigade

Nudity can be hidden and prevented all together. It is the easiest imorality to not commit. Violence, however, is not so easy to avoid. Just ask you children that go to middle school or high school. It would be unfair to call people imoral for seeing violence.

But Please do not do either, ever...anyone.
Send me a picture of your naked parents after you burned that image into your mind, or just punch some guy and put it on youtube. What would you be welling to do? I hope that you would do the Youtube thing. for my sake at least...
But Please do not do either, ever...anyone.
The worst of the two is the nudity> I hope that many would agree maybe even you!

Violence is a "sin" that requires action, you can only do.
Nudity is a "sin" in witch no action is required, you can only see.
That is the POV of a Monotheist.

Please read my explanation in this spoiler free spoiler tag.

Spoiler:

Nudity is like food that is not kosher. Violence is like Curse word such as the 'F' word. It is not a sin to hear it, but it is a sin to say it.Eating none kosher is a sin for the people of Israel.

When you Hear something, you are receiving into your body. Cursing is an offense to God. But listening to it isn't. However, like Violence in TV, some may still be offended by hearing it.

When you eat Kosher food you allow an impurity into your body, you become one with it and lose any closeness to God that you had. You can't commit that sin by using your mouth like when cursing. You can only do it by intaking it into your body.

Seeing is like eating, but with your eyes. You intake pictures every moment of your life. if you see Nudity then you receive that "None Kosher" item into your body. Speaking is like taking action. It is something you physically do that has an affect on others and the environment. When you Fight, you commit the act of violence thus sin, but when you see violence it is not a sin, not yours anyway. When you curse you are the offender, when you hear a curse you are not the offender.

In other words
Nudity is wrong cause it is not "kosher" for the eyes of others. Violence is something you do with your body, only then are you sining. There is a difference. If seeing violence was a sin then it would be unfair. Violence is on the streets and news. You would do wrong every day, therefor watching violence on a TV show is not wrong.

I don't really want to argue why Nudity is wrong, that is not the point. The point is that why should we, the anti nudity crowed, be forced away from a franchise that we love watching? Why should we miss out on Stargate cause you, the pro nudity club, want to see naked people? Does that seem fair?

Like I said, no one is really offended by the lack of nudity only by the presence of nudity. It would be close minded to expect us to change our beliefs cause you think they are "stupid" and in the way of "progress".

PS Test everything, hold on to the good, that is true progress.
oh, and it is aretood2 not aretoad2.

[rlr149]

First of all, It seems to me that you just want to see naked people on TV. The characters in Stargate have seen plenty of naked people on screen. There is Ernest, in that one episode where Daniel finds the meaning of life thing.
Then when Daniel came back from the land of the Ascended.
Then when Shepperd saw that lady naked in "The Tower" on SGA

Nudity is in the plot, we just can't see it all. You are advocating nothing, unless you just want to see Lorne's "hot" body as someone on this thread stated. I am talking to any one person.

not at all, i just think your overreacting way too much to a single naked woman in the first ep. by making such a 'big deal' of it, your making it a 'big deal'

now a direct response.

yet you can force your ways on us? That does not make sense.

only in the same way that 'intelligent design' is trying to be subtly (or not so, as the case may be) introduced into 'real' science classes

Arrogance is not a good thing. Your line of thought is that our reasoning is stupid. well if a=b and b=c then a=c
if our reasoning is stupid then our beliefs are stupid thus we are stupid. I have not done the same. I just challenged your reasoning and put mine to the test. So far I have found mine to be better for me. Test everything, hold on too the good that is true progress.

yet your showing arrogance by knowing what is and is not good for us.

so we are wrong and you are right just cause your Idea is "New" and anything old is bad?

no

Nudity can be hidden and prevented all together. It is the easiest imorality to not commit. Violence, however, is not so easy to avoid. Just ask you children that go to middle school or high school. It would be unfair to call people imoral for seeing violence.

again with the "i think its bad, so should you"!!!

But Please do not do either, ever...anyone.
Send me a picture of your naked parents after you burned that image into your mind, or just punch some guy and put it on youtube. What would you be welling to do? I hope that you would do the Youtube thing. for my sake at least...
But Please do not do either, ever...anyone.
The worst of the two is the nudity> I hope that many would agree maybe even you!

no i see violence as a problem because people are more than likely hurt in the process, no one died by taking their clothes off(except maybe anti-rad suits)

Violence is a "sin" that requires action, you can only do.
Nudity is a "sin" in witch no action is required, you can only see.
That is the POV of a Monotheist.

its not a "sin" to me

Please read my explanation in this spoiler free spoiler tag.

Spoiler:

Nudity is like food that is not kosher. Violence is like Curse word such as the 'F' word. It is not a sin to hear it, but it is a sin to say it.Eating none kosher is a sin for the people of Israel.

When you Hear something, you are receiving into your body. Cursing is an offense to God. But listening to it isn't. However, like Violence in TV, some may still be offended by hearing it.

When you eat Kosher food you allow an impurity into your body, you become one with it and lose any closeness to God that you had. You can't commit that sin by using your mouth like when cursing. You can only do it by intaking it into your body.

Seeing is like eating, but with your eyes. You intake pictures every moment of your life. if you see Nudity then you receive that "None Kosher" item into your body. Speaking is like taking action. It is something you physically do that has an affect on others and the environment. When you Fight, you commit the act of violence thus sin, but when you see violence it is not a sin, not yours anyway. When you curse you are the offender, when you hear a curse you are not the offender.

In other words
Nudity is wrong cause it is not "kosher" for the eyes of others. Violence is something you do with your body, only then are you sining. There is a difference. If seeing violence was a sin then it would be unfair. Violence is on the streets and news. You would do wrong every day, therefor watching violence on a TV show is not wrong.

but i don't believe in god, so these apply to me how?

I don't really want to argue why Nudity is wrong, that is not the point. The point is that why should we, the anti nudity crowed, be forced away from a franchise that we love watching? Why should we miss out on Stargate cause you, the pro nudity club, want to see naked people? Does that seem fair?

its not that we want to see them, but the fact you make such a 'big deal' about it, then change things 'after the fact' to suit you

Like I said, no one is really offended by the lack of nudity only by the presence of nudity. It would be close minded to expect us to change our beliefs cause you think they are "stupid" and in the way of "progress".

i don't expect anything from you, i learned you can't really argue with the dogmatic, i can still think its stupid though, unless your expecting me to change my beliefs because you say so?

PS Test everything, hold on to the good, that is true progress.
oh, and it is aretood2 not aretoad2.

and you decide whats good for us do you?

[Daedalus-304]

no i see violence as a problem because people are more than likely hurt in the process, no one died by taking their clothes off(except maybe anti-rad suits)

No, but other things happen happen when people take their clothes off.

its not a "sin" to me

But it is to many people who watch TV

[rlr149]

No, but other things happen happen when people take their clothes off.

I suggest you learn then teach some "self control"

But it is to many people who watch TV

You will always have the choice of not watching something due to your thoughts of what constitutes sin. Anyone who does not share your ideas doesn't get a look in.

[Daedalus-304]

I suggest you learn then teach some "self control"

Same with violence then? Someone can watch all they want, and as long as they don't act on it, they are fine. The people who complain about exposing children to violence don't know what they are talking about then?

You will always have the choice of not watching something due to your thoughts of what constitutes sin. Anyone who does not share your ideas doesn't get a look in.

But we are talking about public space. TV is public, and subject to it's rules. Anyone who does not think looking at nudity is a sin can do so in private. I don't think people who don't like nudity want to be in constant fear of seeing it, when they want to watch the news or get information.

[ykickamoocow]

But we are talking about public space. TV is public, and subject to it's rules. Anyone who does not think looking at nudity is a sin can do so in private. I don't think people who don't like nudity want to be in constant fear of seeing it, when they want to watch the news or get information.

So your scared of nudity. I hope you dont plan to have kids as you will be disappointed when your parents finally tell you that the stalk isnt real.