Stargate and Nudity

[Skydiver]

what i don't get is calling preferring not to see it as 'afraid of it'

I'm not afraid of it, but I don't see the need to have boobs hanging out all over the place.

I have no issue with nudity in a movie if it's a necessary part of the plot. same with sex. for example, in a julia roberts movie, they had a sex scene with her abusive husband, and it was to illustrate just how abusive he was.

an example of gratuitous nudity is the movie The Void. There is a love scene between amanda's character and adrain paul's character. and it's edited rather oddly because AT doesn't do nudity so she had a stunt body to do the boob and butt shots. and you could tell because it would clumsily cut from her to the boobs, then back to her.

you could have left out the boob shots and just done it 'artfully' and the story would have gone on just fine. it was gratuitous.

I don't think judging whether a person is 'right' or 'wrong' to not like shau'ri's nude scene is really on topic, the topic is does that nudity fit into the stargate universe and the tone set by the show. was it necessary to the plot? or was it just people taking advantage of being on cable and 'we can play so let's do so'

[Lythisrose]

I'm not afraid of nudity, I see naked people all day long at work.
But I'd rather not see alot of it on TV, if the truth be told; it ain't always that pretty.
(at the same time, I can't stand that only the "pretty" people are worthy of being seen)

[Pandora's_Box]

I also don't think this is about being right or wrong. I believe its up to the individual to decide whether to watch it or not. I also don't believe that not wanting to watch means your afraid of nudity or hate the human body.

I was merely pointing out how I see nudity to be portrayed in mass media and I don't see it as being portrayed in a healthy manner. Nudity is something to be abhorred or to censor shows for, to sue production companies for. I don't agree with that.

As for the religious or geographical aspect to views on nudity. I mentioned North Americans as being generally more prudish because they are and this is where a lot of censorship issues are coming up. Europeans are way more accepting of nudity on television and nudity in general. Obviously there are other cultures that are less accepting than either of the two but I figured I didn't need to start naming all geographical locations independantly.

As for religious beliefs, I can't apologize for that one. Historically, people have been influenced the most by religion in how they behave and the choices they make. I firmly believe that some aspects of certain religious schools of thought are responsible for some of our society's problem with protrayal of the human form.

I also don't appreciate gratuitous nudity. In no way do I advocate nudity for the sake of nudity. I just don't think it's healthy that most people's exposure to nudity in mass media is through pornographic content.

[Mister Oragahn]

in all your posturing you're ignoring one very real thing the show's writers/directors/producers have to deal with

carter hides her 'rack' as you so adroitly and intelligently put it because stargate is broadcast on over the air television, thus is subject to the rules set by the FCC...which say that you can't cuss too much, can't be too violent and yep, can't show nudity.

shows are shot they way they are shot because that's how they have to be shot if they are to be on broadcast television.

Which is understandable, but which is clearly not Wright's point. He's arguing a superior morale ground whilst it's only a matter of ratings and audience.

As for the racks, what about degrees beyond 1?

That's why there are two versions of COTG, one that aired on showtime that had shau'ri fully naked and at least one scene between daniel and jack talking, and both of these scenes were cut for the broadcast version because not only did it have to fit the fcc rules and regs, it also had to fit in the time allotted and allow for commercials in the broadcast version.

Cutting Jack and Daniel talking. The heresy!

If you've been watching Dexter, you'll notice that parts of it have been dubbed...because cuss words that are allowed on cable are not allowed on broadcast television. There may also have been violence and nudity that was cut out, i never watched it on showtime to know the difference.

I don't know Dexter.
Now, let's share this Gateworld video, called "particle accelerator", and let's move forward to 1:01, please:

http://www.gateworld.net/video/omnip...07296357.shtml

The Quest Part 2:

MITCHELL
Oh, son of a *****!

200:

MARTIN
Son of a *****!

Red Sky:

O'NEILL
You stupid son of a *****!

48 Hours:

MAYBOURNE
Bet it was him that shot you. The son of a ***** really stood in Hammond's office and blackmailed him right to his face?

Bane:

CARTER
You son of a *****.

Stronghold:

FERGUSON
It's about time. Son of a ***** drags me out here to get poked and prodded and turned upside down, and he can't spare a minute from his big, important job to visit his dying friend?

Zero Hour:

REYNOLDS
Son of a *****!

I'm probably missing some, and my research was obviously very focused.

One thing though, oranghan's post shows just why people are content to not have the nudity. many treat it with all the adultness and sensibility of a 13 year old giggling over his daddy's playboy. crudity makes it very easy to just say 'oh, cut it all out' because you get tired of what many call the 'beauty' of the human body being denigrated to trash talk and nastiness.

You want people to stop being so uptight, don't go treating the nudity as if it's some titty show put on for a .50 thrill. The crudity of his post illustrates why it's easier to deny or control it than to accept it. Becuse there are so many out there that don't treat it with the respect or acknowledgement that it deserves adn instead turn it into something to be mocked and belittled and made fun of.

talk about sex and nudity in a nasty and immature way, and it'll contiue to be treated as if it's something to be hidden.

maybe it's not the nudity they hide but the base and crude reactions to it taht people are trying to avoid

Oh, yes, very clever spin.
Attacking me because I decide to use certain words on purpose, instead of actually paying attention to the point. Why am I not surprised?

[Mister Oragahn]

I find it true the other way, people are much more likely to accept mild / stylized violence than they do with less than fully modest clothes.

It's a self supporting argument. This balance feels right within a society which is being criticized.

No, it is enjoying of women that is wrong, it is the lust that is wrong. Nudity and close-nudity that leads to lust. By not having the nudity, you have less temptation to lust.

What are you? Mother Theresa?
You know that lust also implies a behaviour that is borderline with obsession?
Have you seen someone here being obsessed by any chance, or is it just someone else again missing the point?

I didn't see that as that violent, you see her surrounded by flames, then you see her as a burnt corpse. It's not like there was blood and guts everywhere.

Funny, that's the same thing they said about those witches they were burning. No guts, no blood. Just flames and the smell of torched flesh in the morning.
What's the problem?

[Major Clanger]

and now they are being sued by the gov't. the only place you can show nudity now is the movie channels like HBO or porn channles.

No! It is attitudes like this that make it so much more difficult to get any acceptance of anything.

Nudity does not equal porn.

Nobody here is asking for an All Nude Stargate or anything else. What I, at least, am questioning is the attitude that a quick scene of Full Frontal Nudity (which was nothing to do with sex and everything to do with a demonstration of the character of the bad guys - whether or not TPTB wanted it in there or not) causes such a hoo-ha and almost constant violence is accepted as a natural part of life.

That is a topsy turvy view of the world and baffles me.

Likewise, the "this is the start of the slippery slope" comment is equally baffling. A bit of non-sexual nudity (which isn't illegal outside of TV as far as I know) does not automatically lead to a Caligula-like orgy involving animals.

As for the horror at allowing homosexual sex on TV... I'm not for showing graphic sex anywhere. The imagination is a wonderful thing. In context, however, some things can advance a story and show situations and feelings way more than any amount of narrative.

[theStormWeaver]

It never ceases to amaze me how quickly a good discussion can turn into a flame war on this forum. That is precisely why I don't post here daily, like I did in years gone by.

Personally, I think Wright's comment was bull. I also think the pro-Nudity people here are exagerating his line about the violence. He believes that Nudity didn't belong on the show, and that while violence isn't much better, the violence that was on the show was justified.

Without the violence we would never know the depravity of the Goa'uld and the true depth of their malice and evil.

Equally, I believe that nudity is acceptible, IF it serves to better tell the story. As for the scene in CotG, I believe it helped to show her vulnerability. I also thought that the true reason for having the nudity was revealed when the Air Force officer(?), the blonde woman Apophis killed, was not shown nude. They showed the curvy and busty woman nude, and only her, because they were trying to attract a larger male audience.

I'd be lying if I didn't find the full frontal scene to be sexually attractive. But thats because I found Sha're attractive, she was nude, and I am a heterosexual male. But I understand the deeper meaning that can be found in the scene.

[Daedalus-304]

Nudity does not equal porn.

Many would disagree. I've even heard people say near-nudity (very revealingly clothes) is borderline porn.

[Major Clanger]

Many would disagree. I've even heard people say near-nudity (very revealingly clothes) is borderline porn.

That is because they are idiots.

[Skydiver]

porn, in my definition, is people 'going at it'. People in the sexual act. That's closer to porn. Nudity is just that, nudity.

as to violence in the show, it's a show about the US military taking on alien invaders/near invaders...people are fighting. that's the theme of the show. of COURSE there's gonna be violence.

but heck, i've seen worse on the AM news when they show videos of students beating up thier teacher or friends.

the show, however, has kept the violence mostly 'tame' in that, when the jaffa get shot, we just see them fall. there are no head shots, no brains splattering on the walls. the violence is very 'bang, you're dead, fall down', not a slow motioned 20 second extravaganza complete with spraying blood every time someone dies

and does teh SGC characters indiscriminately run around blowing anyone away that they feel like?

no, they aren't portrayed as blood thirsty murderers, they're portrayed as soldiers that do what they have to do to get things done, and they are only as violent as they need to be.

[Pandora's_Box]

Many would disagree. I've even heard people say near-nudity (very revealingly clothes) is borderline porn.

Do people not understand the definition of pornography anymore?

Let check it out shall we....Pornography is is the explicit representation of the human body or sexual activity with the goal of sexual arousal. The idea that 'many people' equate seeing nudity with watching porn frankly sickens me.

If we go by the definition you claim many people have of 'porn' then about 90% of what's shown on MTV is "borderline" pornography.

I'll go with Major Clanger on this one, people are idiots.

[Cam_Mitchell]

So how much nudity was there in Torchwood?

Not much actually a lil bit of gayness but you dnt see anything....

[Skydiver]

Oh, yes, very clever spin.
Attacking me because I decide to use certain words on purpose, instead of actually paying attention to the point. Why am I not surprised?

the thing is, one reason people want to 'ban' nudity is because, as many have said, they equate nudity to sex/porn. language like 'showing her rack' and the other crudity that was used only reinforces that erronous assumption. when the very people that area advocating 'let the nudity run free' refer to it in crude sexual terms and innuendo and 'wink/wink/nudge/nudge', all they are doing is making it easier for the 'nudity = porn' folks to make their point.

If people really want nudity to be seen as no big deal, well then folks you have to treat it as if it really is no big deal. that means no dirty jokes, no crude comments, no nasty innuendo.

the more that treat it with immaturity, the easier they make it for nudity to be kept under wraps

[ykickamoocow]

Nudity and pornography are two very different things. Pornography is certainly something children shouldnt see but nudity is a completely different story.

As others have said we are NOT suggesting turning Stargate Atlantis into a show where the characters spend 90% of their time naked but rather when the script calls for nudity they show it instead of hiding it like they have done in the past.

[Pitry]

the thing is, one reason people want to 'ban' nudity is because, as many have said, they equate nudity to sex/porn. language like 'showing her rack' and the other crudity that was used only reinforces that erronous assumption. when the very people that area advocating 'let the nudity run free' refer to it in crude sexual terms and innuendo and 'wink/wink/nudge/nudge', all they are doing is making it easier for the 'nudity = porn' folks to make their point.

If people really want nudity to be seen as no big deal, well then folks you have to treat it as if it really is no big deal. that means no dirty jokes, no crude comments, no nasty innuendo.

the more that treat it with immaturity, the easier they make it for nudity to be kept under wraps

While I agree with you about the current situation, I think you're ignoring the other side of the coin - what happens when TPTB dress up Teyla, for example, to be the eye candy and make sure that everything that can be seen is being seen (much like Vala's dress in the Orii portion of AoT). When there's nudity in the show - in a natural setting, for example what was mentioned earlier about Carter's and Pete's sex scene - it gives quite a different impression than Teyla's wardrobe. If people mentioned Torchwood earlier - well, we've seen almost all of Rhys, and I don't think the female viewers were supposed to get sexually aroused by it. The (IMO stupid) connection between nudity and pornography is quite helped by the "aceptable" way Teyla is being dressed, a lot more than it is by Sha'uri's nude scene in CotG.