Stargate Atlantis IS SG:1 (my concerns for S5)

[Othala08]

Hey Simon, I just re-read your amazing list with a few of my SGA fan friends...we think you should send it to Joe Malllozi, it would show him that the fans do pay attention and we do notice these things!!

[Rootortoise]

First of all I would like to thank Simon for doing all this in depth analysis and taking the time to present his ideas in a concise coherent method. I have been concerned for some time now about the lack of originality in SGA. And yes, I know that every story can be broken down into the basic elements of man against nature, man against himself, man against society, etc. Some of the nitpicking and misdirection in arguing against Simon's approach dwells on this too much. Simon seems to recognize this but some are twisting his argument into something it is not. Actually, I think all of you are correct in your own way.

Forgetting about the repetition of ideas from one show to the other, or even within the same show if you compare Hot Zone and Quarantine, for a moment, I would like to emphasize the fact that they have completely ignored the original premise of the show. i.e. the discovery of the lost city of Atlantis in another galaxy, the expedition that travels there, meets new enemies and explores the Ancient/ancient city. They wouldn't have to worry about repeating themselves or others if they'd just explore the city, delve into why Sheppard has such a stronger ATA gene and maybe establish his deeper connection with the city. I know somewhere in SciFi we've had a case of a sentient city, but I can't recall it right at the moment.

Instead of being hostile to Simon and picking his ideas apart, we should be telling TPTB that yeah, we want SGA to be a lot different from SG-1 and to be what we thought it originally intended to be instead of a team of 4 that goes through the gate, meets indigenous people and shoots them. Or am I wrong and is that what the majority of us now expect and desire? Because if it is, then never mind Simon. The real fans want SG-1 redux.

Ive wanted them to explore why shep has the strongest ata gene since rising, but alas weve never had that! Also the fact that he can resist wraith queens interogations when other humans cant.....is that something to with the gene? why bother having it as such a feature if they were never going to explore it- i know they created the ata gene therapy so shep wouldnt have to turn things off and on all the time, but we still couldve explored that more.....people manage it in fanfic!

what is frustrating, is what made stargate atlantis different was the fact that they were in ATLANTIS, city of the ancients that they'd spent a season of sg1 looking for, and then in one ep we were told theyd explored over half the city, and yet weve had hardly any episodes of them actually exploring the city and finding cool gadgets etc!

On sg1 we had 10 years of them going offworld and exploring planets, getting into wacky adventures....and dont get me wrong i like seeing planets in the peggy galaxy too....but there is this amazing city to explore and we havent seen much of it!

i dont care much about them reusing typical scifi plots, i dont even care if they reuse a similar idea from sg1 as long as they put a spin on it and im entertained for an hour. The fact that they dont use what makes atlantis unique and all too easily focus on what sg1 was about because they know how to write that...thats frustrating!

in quarentine

Spoiler:

they couldve had some people trapped in unknown parts of the city and explored that a bit more!

if eps are set in atlantis, does it have to be in the same places (ok money-wish it makes sense but storywise...!)

even JF said in the conversion commentary on the dvd that he thought they should explore the city more. i agree!

[Blistna]

I really am tired of these type of posts. I know you feel hurt, but every genre has this problem -- not just sci fi -- I can list a basic plot, and it will sound like anything. For instance: A teenage boy finds something that starts him on ag rand adventure. Sounds like: Harry Potter (He found out he is a wizzard), Eragon (he found an egg), and really, just about any kids book of all time.

Lets do this again: A man finds a note from a killer, with some sort of threat on it. If the man doesn't do what the killer wants, then the killer will kill someone. Sounds like: Velocity by Dean Koontz and Thr3e by Ted Dekker. And really, a lot of other killer stories.

So, lets name another plot: "A major adversary constructs a race of super soldiers based on the genetics of his species"...sounds like: Stalion (the real life dude who actually tried to do this with trying to make a hybrid human-ape), SG:A, SG:1, Halo (Well, Halo they tried to make super soldiers, but it wasn't an enemy), Terminator (Sure, it wasn't genetic, but the machines try to make better killers all the time), and really...I bet I could go on forever.

Now is there a need for fresh ideas? Yes, sure, but I don't see why you should be posting about it...because this type of thread has been posted before, and every time the same people say the same thing....I am ready for a new idea...(lol...that was a joke)

EDIT:

OOH I FORGOT what I said last time. There still is originality, but it's not in your plot...it's in how you execute the plot. For instance, the basic plot, "A major adversary constructs a race of super soldiers based on the genetics of his species" was executed differently from SG1 to SGA. SG1 it was anubus, right? In SGA, it was Micheal, right? Well, Anubus was a bad guy...trying to b more of a bad guy. Micheal is trying to get his revenge for what we have done to him. It's a slight difference, and yes there are better examples, but it is different.

[MerryK]

As a newbie, I gingerly walk onto such a controversial scene...but I haven't seen much to this point said, so I think it's work mentioning.

No matter how witty a line, no matter how surprising a plot twist, the vast amount of literature and media will have a similar version somewhere. Originality is not a goal that can really be met, if you are looking at basic plots or character archetypes. While watching an episode, some people will go "Wow, that was new" and others will go "Oh, that was just like X"...you can't avoid either response, because an audience as a whole has a near infinite experience with various story elements. However, much of an excuse it sounds like, it really is the characters, dialogue, and plot treatment that make a story new enough.

Take the show Firefly, for instance, which when summed up in one sentence is the typical "bunch of people stuck on a spaceship going to a new planet nearly every week". But do those people resemble those on Star Trek or Farscape? Do they behave in the same way? Do they deal with situations similarly, and use similar lines? I think you'd find that most people see the differences more than the similarities. Likewise, many of the episodes in the first post have comparatively similar plots, but the characters make different choices and behave and speak far differently in each version. And that's the point—a plot is just the backbone that holds the meat of a story. Especially in genres, where plot choices are limited by definition.

Just as a sidenote, when you ask for new and original storylines, what are you looking for anyway? Can anyone think of a plot that's essence has not been used in science fiction before? And if you can think of one, does it fit in the Stargate setting? Would the established characters get into a situation like that realistically? I'm really curious about this, since i don't see more than a couple obscure ideas left in science fiction—but I do see a lot of ideas that could be or are being spun in new directions that I find interesting to watch/read.

[Bytor]

I dont care if Atlantis is just a rehash of stargate sg1 with a differnt cast.

Its still awesome.


If they made 5 more seasons of regular SG1 instead of having made Atlantis.. would u still be watching it ? yes.

Does it really have to be a groundbreaking concept to be good? I mean.. Its stargate afterall.. if u want something new.. try a show without stargate in the title?

[Dev Corvin]

Atlantis' has been much better than SG-1. Not that SG-1 was a bad show or anything, but the fact they now have decent technology just makes it all the better.

[kirmit]

Atlantis' has been much better than SG-1. Not that SG-1 was a bad show or anything, but the fact they now have decent technology just makes it all the better.

I disagree imo I don't think Atlantis has even touch upon SG-1 yet, it was the fact we had current level technologies fighting vastly superior enemies that made SG-1 so good, advanced technologies vs advanced technologies has been done to death in sci-fi.

[jenks]

Atlantis' has been much better than SG-1. Not that SG-1 was a bad show or anything, but the fact they now have decent technology just makes it all the better.

How so?

[YutheGreat]

Simon what you say has merit. The problem is after a decade of stories it is hard not to recycle certain story arcs. There are some similarities yes but that doesn't mean they recycle it all. There are tech simillar to other shows like beaming, hyperdrive, ships. The fact that Atlantis has better tech in my point of view makes atlantis even more forminable making it more difficult for any enemies to be threat.

[expendable_crewman]

Every story has already been told. This is supposed to be a fact. Sad, but true. I'm a writer, so when I was taught this, I kind of took it as a challenge.

The difference between a mediocre storyteller and a good storyteller ... is a good writer will make you forget the supposed TRUTH, make you feel like you've just taken a long, deep breath of fresh air.

Everything's been done before.

There are no new stories.

It's all recycled, only different.

A lot of sci-fi eps remind people of other sci-fi eps.

If you subscribe to the above and don't mind it ... if you buy your reads and your film tickets, your DVDs, and select your TV programming believing that nothing fresh is due you or on the way, my heartfelt condolences. But there is this consolation: mediocre writers live for you.

Whether or not a lot of sci-fi basic plots are reshashed-- a lot of writers don't mind regurgitating last year's top sellers, as long as they get paid... and they do --I do believe a decent writer should steer a wide turn around his/her own (older) material.

The topic creator's research is interesting. I had begun to notice revisited plots within SG1. I hadn't noticed it so much within SGA. I do find it telling that the creators of the (older) Stargate stories wouldn't hold up a stop sign to some of the similarities. It's not like there aren't a galaxy of (different) ideas out there.

It's supposed to be an insult to a writer when someone says his or her work is unoriginal, pedestrian, a re-tread of something else, unless, as I said, the writer is getting paid.

[MerryK]

Every story has already been told. This is supposed to be a fact. Sad, but true. I'm a writer, so when I was taught this, I kind of took it as a challenge.

The difference between a mediocre storyteller and a good storyteller ... is a good writer will make you forget the supposed TRUTH, make you feel like you've just taken a long, deep breath of fresh air.

Hey, I know what you mean there...I'm a writer, too, and I've taken that very challenge to make cliches into something interesting in my own writings. The thing is, I don't see this thread focusing on anything but the repeat of ideas/use of cliches in Stargate. And also, other than a few times, I've never felt that I watched a mere cliche on Stargate—the writers make it seem new, doing exactly what you said in your post. I've seen shows where I merely groaned at the ideas, but Stargate usually takes those ideas and makes them fun (as well as often poking fun at the idea). It rarely seems cheap or mediocre to me...but then, "originality", "great writing", and "new twist" are more subjective than most terms.

[SG-1ssm]

I've been thinking this since Atlantis' first season, which ended with a 3 part episode in which the base was attacked...strangely like the end of SG-1s first season.

This believe was further reinforced when Carson was killed off.

[Jumper_One]

I've been thinking this since Atlantis' first season, which ended with a 3 part episode in which the base was attacked...strangely like the end of SG-1s first season.

so you're saying Within the Serpent's Grasp/The Serpent's Lair are basically the same as The Siege Part 1, 2 and 3 just because Atlantis/Earth was attacked (which btw isn't even true since Apophis never attacked the planet)?

This believe was further reinforced when Carson was killed off.

ah I see Frasier and Carson were killed off and both were CMO's. yup those two examples convinced me, SG-1 IS SGA yeah that makes sense