Replicators versus Ori

[garhkal]

I guess the Ori should have this information too and be able to build a new one. The only downside for them is that they would have to modify it so it can once again destroy the little buggers. I think that should be possible, or am I wrong about this?

I disagree. IMO the only reason the Ancients/alterans had that info, was cause it was them who made the Asurans and later on Reece who formed the replicators... To our knowledge teh Ori have not even had any encounters with them let alone any way to fight them.

They're on the same level as the Ancients were at their peak yes but like it's been said a thousand times the Ori use Ascended knowledge, we know they're free to disperse as much as they want in their home galaxy, which is where their ships and other technology is built.

True, but does their ascended knowledge also include what OUR ancients made/encountered?? IMO no.

Merlin did that by shifting into a parallel dimension which we know hides him from the ascended beings. We also know they were keeping tabs on him through Morgan le Faye so they must've had some knowledge of the shifting for her to be able to destroy the first sangraal.

IMO that was more that they saw him continually shifting in and out of our realm and sent her to find out why... not cause they knew he was building the sangrall. BUT who knows.

Erm yes they did know who was plotting against them, the prior found Fannis in 'Origin' and they knew about the ploy to destroy the ships in 'Crusade'.

They found Fannis cause they most likely followed him or daniel and Valla... Not that they knew ahead of time. heck i wonder how long Fanis and the others were 'rebellious'..
As to crusade.. who is to say they found about the plot before hand, but just did not have some 'danger sense' go off alerting them to the bombs which were then neutralized.. Or worse yet, one of the unbelievers got caught and was made to confess what they knew.

Perhaps having been ascended himself, he, Oma, or the Ancient ruling body shielded this knowledge from ascended probing....

One could hope.. though i don't think that helped him out when they went to Priorville in the season 9 opening mini series..

[Buba uognarf]

The hive was far larger yeah, did it have shields no. I know you'll bring up its heavy armour but nothing yet suggests the hive armour is tougher than a shield. I see blasting through a shielded ship more impressive than blasting through a just heavily armoured ship.

Ha'tak shields aren't amazing...Hive ships can withstand more energy weapon fire then Ha'taks providing their weapons are equal. There's also the fact that the lantean weapon seemed to pack enough punch to skewer several hives.

You need to understand the materials used in stargate are ridiculously hard and a Hive ship is practically a floating slab of armor.

It's been said time and time again that was not just a simple moutain, it was a giant piece of ancient technology covered in rock. I know it still took several shot before the mountain exploded but do we know how deep into the ground the weapon went. The first few shots the ori took were aimed near the base of the mountain, perhaps tunnel underground to hit the dakaara weapon at it base (just an assumption I know). Just notice as soon as the beam hits the top of the mountain the entire thing goes boom. I also recall they said in the episode that they said a cargo ship was dispatched to where dakaara was and nothing was left, so a single Ori ship destroyed an entire planet?

If the blast hit the area around Dakara and it was as powerful as you believe their would have been a smoking crater and the stargate would not be standing. We know from 'line in the sand' the Ori weapon doesn't tunnel through ground.

Actually the first hit did nothing to the mountain (possibly hitting a shield) the two subsequent shots blew the mound of dirt to pieces . The fact is the weapon should have created a massive explosion it didn't. Therefore it stands to reason that it uses technobable to overpower shields (possibly absorbing energy from them?).

Do you really think Dakaara was harder to destroy than an 11km hive ship?

I think it was the city they were referring to, if they had weapons able to destroy planets they would have been fired in the first place to neutralize the weapon.

The asgard had time to study the way Ori shielding works (a whole year), they found a way to fluctuate the shields long enough to get a shot in there. The Ori were focussed on the Milkyway, they weren't even bothered by the asgard, shouldn't they be bothered by a race that could equal them? They didn't see them as a threat, they were arrogant I know but the Ori's technology must've been far more advanced than asgard for them to not even be bothered by them.

And how exactly did they know how Ori shield technology works? I doubt they had the opportunity to study the shields. That's speculation. All of that is speculation they probably just didn't know about the Asgard it's a big universe after all. No reason to suggest they weren't botheredd about them, that's circular reasoning.

Why would the Ori withhold technology? Only priors can operate it and they're beyond turning (with the exception of Gerak) and the followers are too stupid and fanatical to question the Ori.

I again haven't seen any Lantian technology that surpasses Ori technology (the small amount we have seen), on par yes but none that surpasses it.....except drones .

Weapons and shields are superior, possibly power generation...

[s09119]

Ha'tak shields aren't amazing...Hive ships can withstand more energy weapon fire then Ha'taks providing their weapons are equal. There's also the fact that the lantean weapon seemed to pack enough punch to skewer several hives.

You need to understand the materials used in stargate are ridiculously hard and a Hive ship is practically a floating slab of armor.



If the blast hit the area around Dakara and it was as powerful as you believe their would have been a smoking crater and the stargate would not be standing. We know from 'line in the sand' the Ori weapon doesn't tunnel through ground.

Actually the first hit did nothing to the mountain (possibly hitting a shield) the two subsequent shots blew the mound of dirt to pieces . The fact is the weapon should have created a massive explosion it didn't. Therefore it stands to reason that it uses technobable to overpower shields (possibly absorbing energy from them?).

Do you really think Dakaara was harder to destroy than an 11km hive ship?

I think it was the city they were referring to, if they had weapons able to destroy planets they would have been fired in the first place to neutralize the weapon.



And how exactly did they know how Ori shield technology works? I doubt they had the opportunity to study the shields. That's speculation. All of that is speculation they probably just didn't know about the Asgard it's a big universe after all. No reason to suggest they weren't botheredd about them, that's circular reasoning.

Why would the Ori withhold technology? Only priors can operate it and they're beyond turning (with the exception of Gerak) and the followers are too stupid and fanatical to question the Ori.



Weapons and shields are superior, possibly power generation...

TBH, "Line in the Sand" and "Counterstrike" were two giant plotholes. There's no way that the Ori main weapon could slice through--and obliterate--mountain-sized ha'tak with one shot but do THAT LITTLE DAMAGE to the planet from "LitS" and Dakara. It's just NOT possible.

So I wouldn't use either of those examples in your arguments either way.

[akren]

Replicators VS. Orii Army/Followers - I would say the Reps hands down, without the Orii to give them their Ascended knwoeldge to build a weapon similar to the matter-disruptor radiation weapon on Dakara, the Reps would consume, modify & absorb Orii technology beyound their understanding (just as they have done with Asgard, Goa'uuld & Ancient [?] technology in the past). Their self-replicating nature & overwhelming numbers would crush the Orii army; although it would be fun to see how the Orii would of dealt with them & how the Priors/Adria would of handled them. If the Orii themselvesstepped in used their Ascended powers/knowledge to help, then I would give the Orii Army a fighting chance, as whom knows how it may have turned out?

Asurans VS. the Orii Army (again, assuming the Orii themselves don't step in); I would say even odds on a purely technological level; as Orii & Ancient technology is similar in the respect that the Asurans emulate the Ancients in many aspects & build their technology the 'old fashioned way' (As opposed to assimilation & self-replication).

We know Ancient drones & Ancient tech is capable of standing its own against Orii tech (as demonstratted/stated in 'The Road Not Taken (s10)'), so I think they would be pretty evenly matched, although I would my money on the Asurans becuase they're so cool & Ancient-y.

[Ripple in Space]

Who says the Ori beam was "set to maximum" ? Why would it be, to level a village made up of sub-pre-modern buildings?

The Dakara Device chamber was shielded to some extent:

We will be perfectly safe here within the shield chamber.

[Mister Oragahn]

I can't see how this would possibly end differently than seeing the Ori forces getting curbstomped.

If SG-1 can get inside Ori ships, so will the replicators. Ang god knows how the universe becomes a real ****hole once they achieve that.

[Mister Oragahn]

TBH, "Line in the Sand" and "Counterstrike" were two giant plotholes. There's no way that the Ori main weapon could slice through--and obliterate--mountain-sized ha'tak with one shot but do THAT LITTLE DAMAGE to the planet from "LitS" and Dakara. It's just NOT possible.

So I wouldn't use either of those examples in your arguments either way.

Let's say that the Ori tried surgical strikes, and only wanted to destroy the small targets, while leaving the population safe for future conversion.

Again, much like the Wraith, it's in the Ori's interest to avoid collateral damage when possible.

Of course, this does not negate the visual bloopers, where we see big flashes from space in the two already mentionned episodes, but yet barely level a mountain in one blow, and just burns the grass around a village in another.

Yes, those fraking plotholes are really irritating.

I'm going to blast the whole place into oblivion by... scorching the lawn.
Yes! I WIIIILLL! HALLOWED ARE THE ORIII FFS!!!11!11!1!1!!!11!1!!!

In the second episode, what would have happened is that once the whole village got rephased in, it would have felt inside a huge hundreds of meters deep crater, which floor would have been filled with molten rock.

Everybody dead. Woo-hoo. So much for the sissy invisible trick.

[saberhagen83]

I disagree. IMO the only reason the Ancients/alterans had that info, was cause it was them who made the Asurans and later on Reece who formed the replicators... To our knowledge teh Ori have not even had any encounters with them let alone any way to fight them.

But wasn't the Ori part of the Ancients, before turning "to the dark side"? So it isn't impossible they have this knowledge. Of course, in a away as you say, the Ori might never have come across the Replicatos and/or Asurans. I suppose they might have split up from the other Ancients before that. But do we know that for certain?

[Emperor Tippy]

But wasn't the Ori part of the Ancients, before turning "to the dark side"? So it isn't impossible they have this knowledge. Of course, in a away as you say, the Ori might never have come across the Replicatos and/or Asurans. I suppose they might have split up from the other Ancients before that. But do we know that for certain?

They split millions of years ago, the replicators were made ten thousand years ago. It's highly unlikely that the Ori had any idea that the replicators even existed before coming to the milkway. And the ascended Ori can't see anything in the milkway which includes all knowledge of the replicators.

[saberhagen83]

They split millions of years ago, the replicators were made ten thousand years ago. It's highly unlikely that the Ori had any idea that the replicators even existed before coming to the milkway. And the ascended Ori can't see anything in the milkway which includes all knowledge of the replicators.

Well there ya go. Thanks for clearing that up for me, didn't pay enough attention when this was mentioned.

[Emperor Tippy]

Well there ya go. Thanks for clearing that up for me, didn't pay enough attention when this was mentioned.

That is assuming that the Asurans were the original replicators and that the milkway replicators were a continuation of that project.

[garhkal]

Well there ya go. Thanks for clearing that up for me, didn't pay enough attention when this was mentioned.

No problem. IIRC the time line for the replicators, went something like

1000000000000000000 (no actual years is given) ori and alterans split, and alterans come to the MW.
1000000000000 years later the alterans leave for the Pegasus galaxy due to a plague raviging them.
10000 yrs ago they return after a war with the wraith push them to only having atlantis left.
Sometime after that, reece is created, who then makes the replicators as toys, but implants a code for them to replicate and survive at all costs.

Some time after that the replicators go to IDA and wreck havoc with the asguard...

[Londo Molari]

1) Replicators would rape up the Ori forces.
2) Priors would get information from Ori about magical frequency which can disrupt newest replicator blocks.
3) Ori forces would rape replicators.
4) Surviving replicators will run away, hide, adapt and come back in force.

This process will repeat itself until one side dies. The Ori will probably lose because they can't match the force-production capability of replicators.

[Mister Oragahn]

Is there any proof that the Ori could precisely come with the tech needed to disrupt replicator bonds?

[First]

1) Replicators would rape up the Ori forces.
2) Priors would get information from Ori about magical frequency which can disrupt newest replicator blocks.
3) Ori forces would rape replicators.
4) Surviving replicators will run away, hide, adapt and come back in force.

This process will repeat itself until one side dies. The Ori will probably lose because they can't match the force-production capability of replicators.

Well said. One small variation, initially the replicators would take some damage until they learned to adapt and build their numbers. For their sake, they hope they adapt before they're all destroyed. Then the tide turns. Even better if they have the human form replicators.

When I saw Camelot, and the combined milky way forces were getting beat up by the Ori followers, I thought the replicators would be a handy ally now. If it is even possible to "ally" with them (or just hide behind them!).
Say if you found a small pocket of replicators still in our galaxy, would you throw them at the Ori? If the replicators won, would they leave us lower tech races alone? Or would we have created an even worse problem?