Brotherhood ZPM

[Hypochondriac]

So because we are basically Squatters in the house of the Ancients, we shouild be able to lay claim to all that was theirs?

Not Squatters, after all toward the end of Season 1 didn't they prep Atlantis for our arrival? Also Wouldn't abandonment laws come into effect?

[2ndgenerationalteran]

I see things the exact opposite. a civilization that resorts to bullying and abusing the innocent doesn't deserve to stay around.

to put it in Tealc's words: freedom without honor is meaningless.

A civilization that doesnt fight for its survival doesn't survive. And taking the ZPM from them would benefit more people than letting the Dagarians store it. We could use it on Atlantis to fight the wraith or put it on a ship and actually destroy hives with them. Not taking it from them would even lessen our chances of freeing the pegasus galaxy from the wraith and asurans, you would have to choose the lesser of the two evils. And if you replace it and they don't know there is no harm done.

So because we are basically Squatters in the house of the Ancients, we shouild be able to lay claim to all that was theirs?

The ZPM would be used to protect the Ancient city, and if we have to recall the things they gave out to do so it is not ethically wrong at all. If we had 3 ZPMs and then kidnapped the girl and killed people to get the zpm it would be unethical but we have no ZPMs and we have ways of getting the ZPM without killing people

[wise one]

we could always go back and poke them with a re'ol ring and say im that female leader who hid that ancient ancestor device....now give it to me!!!!!

and then beam away!

maybe they do do this but does the daedalus or any other earth ship look or scan planets for zpm's, they done it on earth before like when looking for ra's zpm but the prommie couldnt find its unique signiture in egypt.

[Heaven]

A civilization that doesnt fight for its survival doesn't survive. And taking the ZPM from them would benefit more people than letting the Dagarians store it. We could use it on Atlantis to fight the wraith or put it on a ship and actually destroy hives with them. Not taking it from them would even lessen our chances of freeing the pegasus galaxy from the wraith and asurans, you would have to choose the lesser of the two evils. And if you replace it and they don't know there is no harm done.

I don't recall the Daganians or any other race enlisting us to protect them from the Wraith, nor did any of them approve stealing in the name of that cause.
the fact that we could put it to better use doesn't give us the right to steal it.

The ZPM would be used to protect the Ancient city, and if we have to recall the things they gave out to do so it is not ethically wrong at all. If we had 3 ZPMs and then kidnapped the girl and killed people to get the zpm it would be unethical but we have no ZPMs and we have ways of getting the ZPM without killing people

It's called stealing. and we would be thieves.

[garhkal]

And if you replace it and they don't know there is no harm done.

How can you say that. We wil have to abduct and in effect torture someone to get that info and knock out any defenders that guard it.

The ZPM would be used to protect the Ancient city, and if we have to recall the things they gave out to do so it is not ethically wrong at all. If we had 3 ZPMs and then kidnapped the girl and killed people to get the zpm it would be unethical but we have no ZPMs and we have ways of getting the ZPM without killing people

How is that being ethically right. Stealing the ZPM is just that stealing. We did not give it out, the ancients did. Since we are only decendents of them as are those in the pegasus galaxy, how do you feel we have more of a right to it than they do?>

[Steven_the_Atlantean]

is that being ethically right. Stealing the ZPM is just that stealing. We did not give it out, the ancients did. Since we are only decendents of them as are those in the pegasus galaxy, how do you feel we have more of a right to it than they do?>

Again, I am agreeing with you 2ndgenerationalteran

McKAY: Desperate times call for desperate measures.
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MCKAY: Atlantis might fall, If we don’t take this back. And it would serve no purpose. You really think the ancestors would of wanted that?
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McKAY: A ZedPM is a ZedPM. Who cares where it comes from?


ANCIENT HOLOGRAM: The Atlantis Stargate was the one and only link back to Earth from this Galaxy, and those who remained used it to return to that world that was once home. There the last survivors of Atlantis lived out the remainder of their lives. This city was left to slumber, in the hope that our kind would one day return.


It is a full functioning Zero Point Modules, THESE PEOPLE ARE WAITING FOR THE ANCIENTS,..ITS BEEN 10 000 YEARS, AND AS WE ALL KNOW THE ANCIENTS WILL NEVER RETURN! THEY HAVE DONE WHAT THEY WANTED AND LEFT THEIR CITY FOR THE PEOPLE OF EARTH! IT WOULD BE STUPID TO TURN A BLIND EYE IN THIS CASE, WE NEED A ZPM, AND THE CLIFFHANGER OF ‘FIRST STRIKE’ GIVES US MORE REASON IN NEEDING IT!

[Heaven]

THEY HAVE DONE WHAT THEY WANTED AND LEFT THEIR CITY FOR THE PEOPLE OF EARTH! WE NEED A ZPM

yes, and left the ZPM for the people of Dagan.

do you think the ancients would have supported stealing it?
they don't even want us in their city as evidenced by The Return
and they also didn't allow old Weir to return to the future with a ZPM to save the city

a need isn't an excuse to commit a crime.

[falconx24]

People have been saying that if Rodney kept his mouth shut, but really we are the descendants of the ancients in the shows Universe, the Second Evolution and how would he know that they would go from a technically un-advanced race to one with Genii Weapons.

[Steven_the_Atlantean]

LOL THIS IS A JOKE RIGHT,…its not my fault that Myself, 2ndgenerationalteran, Doctor Weir and Sheppard’s team think alike,…
McKAY: Well, the Brotherhood stole it from us, Ladon stole it from the Brotherhood – it's not really stealing, it's, um ...
SHEPPARD: ... recovery!
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WEIR: Yes. And most of these guys are on an operation with Sheppard right now. We are raiding Ladon's warehouse and stealing back the ZeePM.

“do you think the ancients would have supported stealing it?”.. JANIS: Thank you – for giving me the hope that Atlantis will survive another ten thousand years ... after you discover it again.

JANIS, AN ANCIENT WENT BEHIND THE COUNCIL’S BACK IN ORDER TO MAKE MODIFICATIONS TO ATLANTIS, IN ORDER FOR PROTECTED, SOME OF THE ANCIENTS WOULD OF SUPPORTED IT, AFTER ALL ITS THEIR CITY THAT IS BEING PROTECTED, IF AN ANCIENT HIMSELF WENT BEHIND THE COUNCILS BACK, EVEN MERLIN AND MORGAN,…..AS MACKAY SAID “ Desperate times call for desperate measures”.

HOLD ON, “they don't even want us in their city as evidenced by The Return”,….THE ANCIENTS NEW THAT THEY WERE NOT GOING BACK, THE ANCIENTS OF THE SHIP TRIA, WERE HEADING TO EARTH AS FAR AS THEY ARE CONCERED THEY WERE MOVING ON! THE ONLY REASON THEY KICKED THE ATLANTIS EXPEDITION OUT WAS NOW THAT THEY HAVE RETURN THEY ARE NO LONGER NEEDED BUT WHEN THEY LEFT, THE EXPEDITION TEAM COME BACK INTO THE EQUATION LIKE RISING PART 1!...REPITION!

[2ndgenerationalteran]

I don't recall the Daganians or any other race enlisting us to protect them from the Wraith, nor did any of them approve stealing in the name of that cause.
the fact that we could put it to better use doesn't give us the right to steal it.

The only race i can imagine we would rush to their aid would be the Taranians and the Athosians. If the Daganians allowed us to take the ZPM as we originally agreed on it wouldn't have to be retaken, and why would a race of any matter allow us to steal something? That destroys the action of stealing, as it is only stealing when you take and the other party disaproves. If they approved it would be practically them giving.

It's called stealing. and we would be thieves.

It would be called recalling, it is safe to say the ZPM was given to them to be taken at a later time probably in defense of Atlantis. We went there, dug it up from them, got set up and mugged when trying to do the exact same thing the Ancients were doing. I dont understand how you people are so upset about some misdemeanor crime in order to save a discovery that could save a galaxy, especially if we replace it and they never know.

Its like a tribe of people worship a battery but it has been lost because the tribe previous to that one lost it, they ask your help to find it and tell you in the end you can use it. After you find it for them they steal it back and hide it. You and friends are lost in the jungle and you have a dead satellite phone that uses the same battery, and some how you can read minds. Your saying it's wrong for us to replace their battery, so you can save yourself?

How can you say that. We wil have to abduct and in effect torture someone to get that info and knock out any defenders that guard it.

Have you been reading what we posted? We probably now have access to Tokra memory recall devices, Gallaran memory devices, and what ever the Ancients and the asgard had. None of it involves torture, you just put the sensors on and ask a question. you could be done in 10 minutes. Being that we can detect the ZPM on sensors and probably home in and beam it out, we wouldn't have to make an assault to retrieve it. There is probably no shielding that would prevent us from beaming the ZPM because neither the Genni nor the Daganians possess the level of technology to block beam transports. The only painful part may be retrieving the girl by stunning then restraining her, then stunning her again to return her. Minimally invasive.

How is that being ethically right. Stealing the ZPM is just that stealing. We did not give it out, the ancients did. Since we are only decendents of them as are those in the pegasus galaxy, how do you feel we have more of a right to it than they do?>

It is recalling, and we have a right to it because hell if you want to get technical it wasn't theirs in the first place. The Brotherhood was in charge of it, so the girl is not a legitimate heir of that original brother hood. Its just a religious artifact from an earlier civilization that lived on their planet. Its just they live on the planet was hidden on. We came to an agreement and they chose to double cross us, we did the digging and thinking for them so technically it is ours. Daganians again have NO USE for the ZPM which would be BETTER USED IN OUR POSSESSION FIGHTING THE WRAITH AND ASURANS.

Again, I am agreeing with you 2ndgenerationalteran

McKAY: Desperate times call for desperate measures.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MCKAY: Atlantis might fall, If we don’t take this back. And it would serve no purpose. You really think the ancestors would of wanted that?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

McKAY: A ZedPM is a ZedPM. Who cares where it comes from?


ANCIENT HOLOGRAM: The Atlantis Stargate was the one and only link back to Earth from this Galaxy, and those who remained used it to return to that world that was once home. There the last survivors of Atlantis lived out the remainder of their lives. This city was left to slumber, in the hope that our kind would one day return.


It is a full functioning Zero Point Modules, THESE PEOPLE ARE WAITING FOR THE ANCIENTS,..ITS BEEN 10 000 YEARS, AND AS WE ALL KNOW THE ANCIENTS WILL NEVER RETURN! THEY HAVE DONE WHAT THEY WANTED AND LEFT THEIR CITY FOR THE PEOPLE OF EARTH! IT WOULD BE STUPID TO TURN A BLIND EYE IN THIS CASE, WE NEED A ZPM, AND THE CLIFFHANGER OF ‘FIRST STRIKE’ GIVES US MORE REASON IN NEEDING IT!

YES! Some one here has a clear sense of reason!

[2ndgenerationalteran]

yes, and left the ZPM for the people of Dagan.

No, they left it for the Sundarians. The Sundarians fell and the Daganians were the new race. Its like they gave it to the Romans hidden in Italy, and now we found it for the Italians.

do you think the ancients would have supported stealing it?

To save their city? Well, hmm, how about a yes to that one?

they don't even want us in their city as evidenced by The Return

They've been stuck on their ship for 400 years, probably in stasis, knowing that when they reach their destination all their people would probably be gone. Instead they return to the place they ran from, alone, and the last people of their once powerful race. To them they have just escaped war and loss. They would want to be alone to mourn in the only place that held the memories they once had. They were kind enough to let jack and woolsey come over and stay, to talk about letting us back in.

and they also didn't allow old Weir to return to the future with a ZPM to save the city

Because it would further mess with the time line, they were trying to preserve a time line that they hoped would work but eventually didnt. If it wasnt for Janus the city would have been submerged seemingly permanently, but the fact he did help us as Steven_The_Atlantean said shows they DO want us in their city.

a need isn't an excuse to commit a crime.

Its not even that big of a crime, and it would lead to much much more good than harm.

[Steven_the_Atlantean]

a need isn't an excuse to commit a crime.

WEIR: We did wake up the Wraith – and while, yes, that would have happened eventually without our interference, our access to Ancient technology puts us in a unique position to help those people. We can’t just walk away.

The ZPM will help the expedition team even more, because they will be able to access New systems, even new defense capabilities!
The Expedition team prevented several cullings, with a ZPM, It can become tremendously useful, this is not just anything, In this case, everything matters!

[wise one]

i reckon they just buried it unlike the brotherhood with all their maps and boxes

or they could be stupid enough to put it back into the orginal chamber...

well thieves or not...

Spoiler:

sheps team will be stealing zpm after forst strike

[Heaven]

No, they left it for the Sundarians. The Sundarians fell and the Daganians were the new race. Its like they gave it to the Romans hidden in Italy, and now we found it for the Italians.

ok, I assent that. in that case I suppose it would be ok if we scan for it by ship and beam out the ZPM. but I can't condone kidnapping and invading their minds.

To save their city? Well, hmm, how about a yes to that one?

I'll have to disagree there.

If it wasnt for Janus the city would have been submerged seemingly permanently, but the fact he did help us as Steven_The_Atlantean said shows they DO want us in their city.

not they, him. he also kept it a secret from the others.
I'm pretty sure the ancients intended to return there themselves one day and not leave it for us.

Its not even that big of a crime, and it would lead to much much more good than harm.

sorry kidnapping is a serious crime as far as I'm concerned.

[Steven_the_Atlantean]

not they, him. he also kept it a secret from the others.
I'm pretty sure the ancients intended to return there themselves one day and not leave it for us.

You no what I am not going to waste my energy on that, Why don't we just a Quote from two ancients themselves!

ANCIENT HOLOGRAM: "The Atlantis Stargate was the one and only link back to Earth from this Galaxy, and those who remained used it to return to that world that was once home. There the last survivors of Atlantis lived out the remainder of their lives. This city was left to slumber, in the hope that our kind would one day return."
JANIS: "We are about to evacuate this city in the hope that it will lie safe for many years and then, one day, our kind will return. (He looks at Elizabeth.) And they have."

Conclusion: THE CITY OF ATLANTIS IS INTENDED FOR THE PEOPLE OF EARTH!
Next time you get yourself into a debate/Argument, back yourself up!

sorry kidnapping is a serious crime as far as I'm concerned.

SHEPPARD: We come from the city of ancestors, that ZPM was intended for us.

AS JANIS SAID, THE FUTURE ATLANTIS EXPEDITION ARE THE NEW INHABITANTS OF THE CITY, THE ZPM WAS INTENDED FOR THEM,
...(MY ASSUMPTION)...LOOK

WEIR: ".....and if it was possible and you had a ZeePM I could take back with me.."

The ancients are aware Earth is not advance to the point of creating Zero Point Modules, after Doctor Weir presents the case of power depletion to the ancients, could it be possible that the Ancients gave the ZPM to the Brotherhood to give to the future Expedition team,..............the only reason I say this is think about it, WHY WOULD THE ANCIENTS GIVE AWAY A ZPM,...WHY DIDN'T THEY JUST LEAVE IT IN ATLANTIS, I BELIEVE THEY DIDN'T BECAUSE IF THEY DID THAT MEANS THE COUNCIL CHANGED THE FUTURE OF ATLANTIS SO INSTEAD OF DELI PRATING CHANGING IT THEY FOUND A WAY TO BENEFIT THE FUTURE WITHOUT CAUSING A FABRIC IN TIME!

LOOK AT MOROS/MERLIN (HE USED HIS ASCENDING POWERS AND KNOWLEDGE TO CREATE THE WEAPON THAT IS CAPABLE OF WIPING OUT ASCENDED BEINGS)!
AND AS WE SAW IN ATLANTIS MOROS WAS THE ONE OF THE COUNCIL WHO SIMPLY SAID NO WHEN DOCTOR WEIR WANTED TO GO BACK IN TIME, I BELIEVE HE DOES HAVE GOOD INTENTIONS,... FOR ALL WE KNOW HE IS THE ONE WHO GAVE THE BROTHERHOOD THE ZPM! (ASSUMPTIONS) BUT THIS IS SCI FI, AND ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!!