Homosexual/bisexual characters?

[Skydiver]

an argument could be made that - since opposing genders are usually required to reproduce, and our world is frankly overpopulated, that maybe what the human race is experiencing is 'mother nature' trying to 'fix' things by toning down the 'must breed' impulse in our species, thus allowing for people to have more of a choice in their companionship. Since increasing the population is not necessary for survival - and one could argue that our survival actually depends on our population decreasing, not increasing - then as the impulse to breed lessens it allows for people to CHOOSE or have chosen for them their sexuality (whether you fall into the 'gays choose to be gay' or 'gays are hardwired to be gay')

What some of this could simply be is our species - quite unconsciously - trying to correct this planet's overpopulation.

In the same vein, this could be how homosexuality is brought into the show. We, as 21st century humans, simply cannot tell other species/races that their lifestyle is wrong. Cause 'wrong' is relative and 'wrong' for us may very well be 'right' for them.

Well, what if they run across a planet where the gender preference is very much a choice and is open and accepted. People love who they love, and gender simply isn't an issue. Kinda like the Tok'ra and Asgard. Those two aliens do not reproduce with sex, rather are spawned or clone.

If we have a planet where reproduction isn't necessary or is easily accomplished by other means - what if these humans are reptilian in lineage and - like some species of frogs - can fertilize themselves?

Then the gender of one's companion is a choice and not a biological imperative.

that would be a very easy way to bring a gay character onto the show - bearing in mind that we humans will call him/her gay, but as far as they're concerned, we're the odd and backwards ones cause we're tied to our gender preferences

[immhotep]

an argument could be made that - since opposing genders are usually required to reproduce, and our world is frankly overpopulated, that maybe what the human race is experiencing is 'mother nature' trying to 'fix' things by toning down the 'must breed' impulse in our species, thus allowing for people to have more of a choice in their companionship. Since increasing the population is not necessary for survival - and one could argue that our survival actually depends on our population decreasing, not increasing - then as the impulse to breed lessens it allows for people to CHOOSE or have chosen for them their sexuality (whether you fall into the 'gays choose to be gay' or 'gays are hardwired to be gay')

What some of this could simply be is our species - quite unconsciously - trying to correct this planet's overpopulation.

In the same vein, this could be how homosexuality is brought into the show. We, as 21st century humans, simply cannot tell other species/races that their lifestyle is wrong. Cause 'wrong' is relative and 'wrong' for us may very well be 'right' for them.

Well, what if they run across a planet where the gender preference is very much a choice and is open and accepted. People love who they love, and gender simply isn't an issue. Kinda like the Tok'ra and Asgard. Those two aliens do not reproduce with sex, rather are spawned or clone.

If we have a planet where reproduction isn't necessary or is easily accomplished by other means - what if these humans are reptilian in lineage and - like some species of frogs - can fertilize themselves?

Then the gender of one's companion is a choice and not a biological imperative.

that would be a very easy way to bring a gay character onto the show - bearing in mind that we humans will call him/her gay, but as far as they're concerned, we're the odd and backwards ones cause we're tied to our gender preferences

Couldnt agree more, the wraith could have been an ideal example of a insect sexuality, withonly a single queen which is asexual but produces male offspring. Keeping patriarchal control, leaving all other wraith male, meaning homosexual. We have never known a wraith to be in a "relationship" with a queen, only to be ruled by one. So its possible even likely that wraith are Homosexual withonly a single Asexual reproductive being who is incontrol and female.
As to the whole Homosexuality is natures way of fixing overpopulation, its entirely possible and in some ways i would support it, but its not the only explaination, you are right that population increase is not required for evolution.

[~Dave]

So now gay/bi is a choice and not just something natural? We are so sure of evolution and the fact that it has been responsible for the origin of life on this planet up to and including us. Modern mankind. And yet here we are at the point where we no longer trust evolution to take us into the future. We now, as superior intellects must take the reigns in order that no one feel bad if they get selected out by nature. Maybe it's our own actions and motives, along with their validity which should be in question here.

*edit* It would not be original to say that we are so preoccupied with if we can do something, that we don't question if we should do it.

~Dave

[immhotep]

You are very very carefully questioing the morallity of sexuality, its interesting how youve posed the questions. Very interesting. But the answer is that sexuality is a topic that is both biological, psychological and relgious. There are some who choose to accept thier sexuality, there are some that choose to be gay, there are some who are born gay but psychologically supress thier own natural desires. Every story is different, nature vs nurture. Sexuality is an issue in that it divides along the great fault lines of modern and historical intellectual debate. Is it natural and genetic, is it psychological or is it unnaturally and immoral. The third can be ruled out. It is Natural because even outside our species there are example of non-hetrosexuality in nature, meaning it isnt only in sentient life forms where homosexuality is present. To make a choice to be gay requires self awareness and self control. While i cant explain the complex biology the existence of homosexual traits in non human species gives weight (even proof) that hetrosexuality isn't the only natural sexual relationship. The Psychological debate is one im not entirely qualified to discuss, maybe Arctic goddess can help here with her professional perspective. But it is not considered a mental condition, even though argument could be made that it was, they are largely rejected. As to the debate about Sexual Orientation, Sexual Behaviour and Sexual Identity. Orientation is almost certainly biological, this is the gender to which we are sexually attracted. Behavior and Identity are psychological and sociological matter. Biologically your Orientation is determined but you do choose who you have sex with, and decide the morality, and appropriateness of your own sexual orientation in the context of our own culture and society. That is how it can be natural and a choice. I can choose not to have sex with men, but it doenst mean i am not gay, just as i can choose to have sex with a woman and be gay. Who you have sex with is a choice, why you have sex with them over another is a choice, but your primary attraction not a choice, but the choice to supress it is a choice. I know people who have been in the closet for decades while still being gay. Earlier in the thread people made comments about married men or woman just becoming gay, look at the whole ross/carol thing in friends for a familier example. You can suppress orientation and choose to be "normal" but it wont ever be personally natural to your own orientation because that it predetermined by your genetics. Unless you truely are Bisexual or Asexual (in the sexual sense not the reproductive) in which case you are significantly more open in general.

[jenks]

an argument could be made that - since opposing genders are usually required to reproduce, and our world is frankly overpopulated, that maybe what the human race is experiencing is 'mother nature' trying to 'fix' things by toning down the 'must breed' impulse in our species, thus allowing for people to have more of a choice in their companionship. Since increasing the population is not necessary for survival - and one could argue that our survival actually depends on our population decreasing, not increasing - then as the impulse to breed lessens it allows for people to CHOOSE or have chosen for them their sexuality (whether you fall into the 'gays choose to be gay' or 'gays are hardwired to be gay')

Selection doesn't work like that, there's no consciousness behind it, no will, natural selections aren't made to best help the species, it's just a simple process in which one animal, for whatever reason, manages to spread it's genes more effectively than another and thus following generation share it's genetic traits. No species would ever evolve a characteristic that would make it more difficult to reproduce, it completely defeats the purpose. Besides, homosexuality is hardly anything new, and it happens with animals too (though I know in that case homosexuality is the wrong word).

[~Dave]

immhotep, please. I have not been very carefully wording my posts. I have been trying to use the most direct language I can think of in voicing my concerns. Simply dismissing my concerns as being deceptive is a red herring which adds nothing to the debate. Unless you can read my mind.

~Dave

[immhotep]

You have been carefully wording your posts ive replied to all of them and you have been very carefully wording them to get in to the morallity and science of sexuality but without mentioning god or religion. Its clever, im impressed by it, even respect it, but i would like to know what you are trying to find out for yourself?

[~Dave]

You have been carefully wording your posts ive replied to all of them and you have been very carefully wording them to get in to the morallity and science of sexuality but without mentioning god or religion. Its clever, im impressed by it, even respect it, but i would like to know what you are trying to find out for yourself?

I'm trying to follow this discussion to a logical conclusion. I'm trying to voice my concerns about the subject. I'm asking questions I would like the answers to. If there are no answers, then ok, but don't avoid them by question my sincerity. I seem to make you nervous and so you seem to want to discredit me in some way. Not productive to the discussion. And I'm not trying to do that to you in return. If you want to label me a liar, then just do it.

~Dave

[immhotep]

No no, i do not, you have been a driving force in the discussion, im enjoying it, you have posed challenging and interesting questions, absolutely, so dont be offended by me saying that, IF you wanted to talk about sexuality form a religious perspect then i respect you for not being another Daniel Jackson, if you have not wanted too, then i applolgise, it just seemed the natural conclusion to your questions would have been a religious or moral response, if it has not been then i am sorry i mistook that. Not trying to discredit you atall, actually ive respected your questioning enough to do some researching and questioning to higher authorities myself (ie my sexuality professor at university) so its been entirely productive. but we are now so far offtopic we need to revert back in some way...

Could an Ancient on Destiny be gay? perhaps the AI on Destiny as a gay character?

[~Dave]

No no, i do not, you have been a driving force in the discussion, im enjoying it, you have posed challenging and interesting questions, absolutely, so dont be offended by me saying that, IF you wanted to talk about sexuality form a religious perspect then i respect you for not being another Daniel Jackson, if you have not wanted too, then i applolgise, it just seemed the natural conclusion to your questions would have been a religious or moral response, if it has not been then i am sorry i mistook that. Not trying to discredit you atall, actually ive respected your questioning enough to do some researching and questioning to higher authorities myself (ie my sexuality professor at university) so its been entirely productive. but we are now so far offtopic we need to revert back in some way...

Could an Ancient on Destiny be gay? perhaps the AI on Destiny as a gay character?

Well, thank you for the kind words. Several posts back I stated that my concerns are not religious or philosophical. In fact they are quite rooted in natural science and our seeming desire to interfere with it.

An AI gay character? LOL! Interesting. What about 2 straight AI programs producing a gay one.

~Dave

[immhotep]

I think it would be the most plausable way to introduce one, the Destiny is highly like to have been running on AI, if they wanted a gay character, a holographic gay is as good as any. The ancients are theoretically Gay friendly and an artificial intelligence may well have human traits. Also because a computer program has no ability or need to reproduce its concept of sexuality may be entirely different but still show at least bisexual tendancies...

[~Dave]

I think it would be the most plausable way to introduce one, the Destiny is highly like to have been running on AI, if they wanted a gay character, a holographic gay is as good as any. The ancients are theoretically Gay friendly and an artificial intelligence may well have human traits. Also because a computer program has no ability or need to reproduce its concept of sexuality may be entirely different but still show at least bisexual tendancies...

I would have thought, based solely on my current understanding of computer programs, that an AI would be gender neutral. But if it's possible for an AI to become "sentient" then who knows what would happen in that area?

~Dave

[Reefgirl]

I'm trying to follow this discussion to a logical conclusion. I'm trying to voice my concerns about the subject. I'm asking questions I would like the answers to. If there are no answers, then ok, but don't avoid them by question my sincerity. I seem to make you nervous and so you seem to want to discredit me in some way. Not productive to the discussion. And I'm not trying to do that to you in return. If you want to label me a liar, then just do it.

~Dave

Isn't the question something like what would the effect be of having a Homosexual/Bi character in the show not a scientific/religious/moral debate on justifying personal views.

And to get back on topic I would love to see a homosexual character in the show, but they would have to change the writer's and showrunners first, preferably bring in Russel T Davies and Steven Moffatt to do it, then bring in an actor of quality to play the character.

[~Dave]

....Isn't the question something like what would the effect be of having a Homosexual/Bi character in the show not a scientific/religious/moral debate on justifying personal views....

I quite agree. One thing that made me cringe was when Sen. Kinsey said he was only trying to do God's own work. GEEZ!

~Dave

[Reefgirl]

Well those types usually do say things like that