Good Goa'uld?

[Annubis' hitman]

Well in mind theres two types of goauld.
Pure evil and semi evil.

Annubis was pure evil, sokar, aphois, nirti. They all were very evil.

self centered baal, yu, goauld who loved jonas. These goauld have shown spots of humanity.

There are no good goauld though.

[brains12]

A good Goa'uld is always a possibility.

Jolinar could be considered a good Goa'uld as her story involved her with an army trying to overthrow a Goa'uld only to be defeated when Apophis joined the battle against her. So she was fairly powerful, however it's also possible she was acting as a Goa'uld like Zaren in 'Endgame'.

I don't really see why Egeria and her offspring should be the only ones to be considered good, because we don't know what caused her to start the resistance in the first place. So I think it's possible there are more like Jolinar.

It's equally possible that like Egeria, Jolinar and even Garshaw may have all been good, however Garshow didn't like being called Goa'uld so who knows about her.

If we are talking about the Goauld as a species, then yes the ones mentioned above are "good". But if we are talking about Goauld as a faction then the ones above arent Goauld, they are Tokra. So in this case, there are no good Goauld

[SaberBlade]

If we are talking about the Goauld as a species, then yes the ones mentioned above are "good". But if we are talking about Goauld as a faction then the ones above arent Goauld, they are Tokra. So in this case, there are no good Goauld

Yes, but the point of the thread is good Goa'uld, not Tok'ra. So it's about a good Goa'uld faction and not the Tok'ra.

Egeria by default would count as a good Goa'uld as she went on to create the Tok'ra so that's all we really know.

[nebulan]

I don't like the concept of a badguy that is inheritly evil. Ba'al's not evil, just out for himself. Yu was honorable. Amaunet and Kirrana's Goa'uld both had something that others never felt: Love. Amaunet's was for Shifu. I got the impression that at the end of the episode where Share gave birth, Amaunet knew that Daniel and the others were there but didn't expose them to Apophis for the love of her son. She's also the one that made sure the baby got to Kheb, a place that didn't treat her own kind nicely (goa'uld's weren't treated real well by Oma) but she knew it was the best place for Shifu. *shrug* that's just what I think

I too don't really understand why all the good Goa'uld had to be the children of Egeria. that doesn't really make sense to me.

[Jaffa]

what about Apophis's son, Klorell i think it was, the Goa'uld that took over Skarra's body, didn't he save the life of Teal'c when O'Neill convinced him not to have him killed

[SaberBlade]

what about Apophis's son, Klorell i think it was, the Goa'uld that took over Skarra's body, didn't he save the life of Teal'c when O'Neill convinced him not to have him killed

Yes, but that doesn't make him good. Klorel seemed to have only did it so he could see O'Neill and Teal'c suffering from their failure, before finally killing them. It's possible Jack managed to get through to Skaara which in turn had Klorel show some form of compasion only to get his kicks from making Jack see the destruction of Earth.

So not good, just motivated differently.

[CityofGlass]

I don't like the concept of a badguy that is inheritly evil. Ba'al's not evil, just out for himself. Yu was honorable. Amaunet and Kirrana's Goa'uld both had something that others never felt: Love. Amaunet's was for Shifu. I got the impression that at the end of the episode where Share gave birth, Amaunet knew that Daniel and the others were there but didn't expose them to Apophis for the love of her son. She's also the one that made sure the baby got to Kheb, a place that didn't treat her own kind nicely (goa'uld's weren't treated real well by Oma) but she knew it was the best place for Shifu. *shrug* that's just what I think

I too don't really understand why all the good Goa'uld had to be the children of Egeria. that doesn't really make sense to me.

I am with you here. I always had trouble with the "inherent evil" aspect of the Goa'uld, even though the writers seem to establish this pretty heavily in a few episodes. But personally, I always liked more complex adversaries. I certainly would have liked to have seen more "good Goa'uld", beyond the Tokra--Goa'uld who simply made conscientious decisions to go against the culture of their race. Otherwise, if the Goa'uld were doomed from birth to be evil, in some ways one could almost pity their existence: They have no choice but to be parasites and moreover, they have no say in their morality/moral-code/philosophical decisions.

Beyond this, there is also the difficulty in understanding how they survived as long as they did if they were "inherently evil". With such advanced technology at their disposal and with such a monstrous moral code combined with an incredibly aggressive and warlike nature, they should have self-destructed. They'd never have survived the "nuclear age" in their evolution.

I have the same trouble with the Ori. When I first saw them, they seemed very cool and a logical departure from the Alterans--a race of Ascended who did not believe in the non-interference policy of the Ancients. However, as time progressed, we find out that all they do is use lower-beings and they are hell-bent on the destruction of all who oppose them. This seems at odds with the concept of Ascension(a state of enlightened existence) and makes the Ori a little too one-dimensional. I do like the idea that they are using the prayers of their worshippers for power/fuel, but I wish it was a bit more grey--more of a philosophical/ideological difference than a good v evil one. Why couldn't the Ori help some of their worshippers, the ones they deemed worthy, Ascend for instance?

[garhkal]

Keep in mind that Yu didn't consider himself a god, so that may have played a role in his being a little more rational than the other System Lords.

Good point.. So maybe the gou'ald from brief candle was good in the sense he did not consider himself a god, and therefore did not 'rule over his people' like a god..

They say that "good guys finish last", and when you consider just how bad some Goa'uld can be, I don't think very many good Goa'uld could have survived ten thousand years of living in the Goa'uld Empire. The Tok'ra only managed to survive by hiding, and even they are now pretty scarce.

Valid point.. Though i could easily see 1-2 here and there in hiding..

Amaunet and Kirrana's Goa'uld both had something that others never felt: Love. Amaunet's was for Shifu. I got the impression that at the end of the episode where Share gave birth, Amaunet knew that Daniel and the others were there but didn't expose them to Apophis for the love of her son

Interesting hypothesis,... but i cannot fault it.

[SaberBlade]

The Amonet this is a good possibility. We do know that he symbiote shares the emotions of it's host, so if Shaure's love for her son was powerful enough, it's quite possible that Amonet couldn't help but be influenced. The whole material bond between a mother and child could be so strong not even the symbiote can resist it.

However both Amonet and Kianna may have felt love, one ended up trying to kill Daniel and the other was still interested in keeping Naquadriah all to herself. So love only goes so far with the idea of a good Goa'uld.

[Rac80]

Isn't that like a "good" dictator. Or in other words, not as bad as the Idi Amins and Hilters of this world but still a dictator ?