Anubis over the edge ?

[Ugly Pig]

We didn't see Shifu ascend onscreen, so that's pure assumption as well. He may have committed some kind of suicide so that he could ascend. We've yet to see anyone ascend without being in a very near-death state. So as of now, this remains an unanswered question, though it seems to lean towards dying first based on all the examples we've seen so far.

I disagree. Yes, ascension has been used (repeatedly) as a "way out" for dying characters. But it has never been implied that one has to die to do so. In fact, dialogue between Daniel and the monk guy in Maternal Instinct seems to indicate that this is not the case ("I don't have to die, right?").

[Dramaqueen]

We didn't see Shifu ascend onscreen, so that's pure assumption as well. He may have committed some kind of suicide so that he could ascend. We've yet to see anyone ascend without being in a very near-death state. So as of now, this remains an unanswered question, though it seems to lean towards dying first based on all the examples we've seen so far.

I disagree. Yes, ascension has been used (repeatedly) as a "way out" for dying characters. But it has never been implied that one has to die to do so. In fact, dialogue between Daniel and the monk guy in Maternal Instinct seems to indicate that this is not the case ("I don't have to die, right?").

I've been wondering about the Shifu-ascension-thing for quite a while...
Shifu was obiously ascended in a bit different way than, for example Daniel because Shifu was able to retake human form while he was ascended, and so was Orlin, but I think that that was, again, different. When Orlin retook human form he wasn't able to re-ascend without the help of the others...
On Abydos Shifu took the form of a sandstorm then his human body and later, when they wanted to test him with that Tok'ra detector thing he took that ascended glowy form. So he seems to be able to switch back and forth between ascended and human form...
So my guess was that it depends on whether you die before you ascend or not. So that if you die and ascend you can't re-take human form again, but if you don't die and, let's say Oma helps you to ascend you are able to switch between ascended and human form...
So maybe it was the same thing with the monk guy in MI, that he was ascended like Shifu at first but then, when he got shot (and died) by a Jaffa he had to ascend completely...
So anyway, that's just a theory, but I agree with you Ugly Pig that death is not necessarily a condition for ascension

[Ugly Pig]

Shifu was obiously ascended in a bit different way than, for example Daniel because Shifu was able to retake human form while he was ascended, and so was Orlin, but I think that that was, again, different.

(Spoilers for season 6!)

Ascended beings can appear to others as "human" without actually retaking human form. Orlin, Shifu, Daniel and Skaara have all done this while ascended, as well as Oma (though only inside Daniels mind). This is not the same thing as actually becoming human again for real the way Daniel and Orlin eventually did.

[Dramaqueen]

(Spoilers for season 6!)

Ascended beings can appear to others as "human" without actually retaking human form. Orlin, Shifu, Daniel and Skaara have all done this while ascended, as well as Oma (though only inside Daniels mind). This is not the same thing as actually becoming human again for real the way Daniel and Orlin eventually did.

Yeah, but there's a difference between appearing in human form, like Daniel appeard in some season 6 episodes and the way Shifu appeared in human form. When Daniel appeared nobody could actually touch him whereas Shifu was touchable and Sam actually strapped him to a chair when they wanted to do this Tok'ra test with him. So I think there is again a difference between retaking human form like Daniel and Orlin did and Shifu.

[Ugly Pig]

When Daniel appeared nobody could actually touch him whereas Shifu was touchable and Sam actually strapped him to a chair when they wanted to do this Tok'ra test with him.

Perhaps ascended beings appearing as human can choose whether they want to fake being "solid matter" or not. I don't know, I just don't buy that there are different kinds of ascension.

[Dramaqueen]

Perhaps ascended beings appearing as human can choose whether they want to fake being "solid matter" or not. I don't know, I just don't buy that there are different kinds of ascension.

Well, maybe I've been thinking about this a little too much, but if he had the choice wouldn't Daniel have chosen the "solid matter" human form, just to be a bit more convincing, I mean he had a quite hard time convincing Jack that he was in fact not just an illusion. But anyway... I don't want to try to convince you that there are different kinds of ascension... I just didn't find another way to explain all this to myself.

[Teal'c]

Onscreen ascensions:
Kheb Monk: He died.
Daniel: He died (Remember the beeeeeeeeeeeep from the ECG?)
Skaara: He died

See... not definate, but the evidence speaks for itself.

[Ugly Pig]

See... not definate, but the evidence speaks for itself.

Ah, but you're ignoring the above mentioned conversation between Daniel and the monk which flat out says you don't have to die.

[uknesvuinng]

Ah, but you're ignoring the above mentioned conversation between Daniel and the monk which flat out says you don't have to die.

Actually, the monk told Daniel he did not have the same evil (a symbiote) within him, but he had his own burdens which had to be released.

The best evidence for your position probably comes from "Abyss", but even it isn't conclusive that ascension can happen without death.

[Ugly Pig]

Actually, the monk told Daniel he did not have the same evil (a symbiote) within him, but he had his own burdens which had to be released.

...in response to the question of whether or not he needed to die. Taken in context, the monks (admittedly cryptic) answers appears to mean "No - but you need to sort out some issues".

[uknesvuinng]

...in response to the question of whether or not he needed to die. Taken in context, the monks (admittedly cryptic) answers appears to mean "No - but you need to sort out some issues".

He doesn't "appear to mean" anything. He means what he says. Daniel took it to mean that he didn't have to die, but we saw how much Daniel misunderstood in that episode.

[Ugly Pig]

He doesn't "appear to mean" anything.

Given the context of the line, yes he does appear to mean something to me.

He means what he says.

...which was "You have your own burdens of which to rid yourself". It is the significance of this line we seem to disagree on. Personally, I don't see how this line could ever be interpreted as "yes - you need to die".

The bottom line is: Daniel says "I don't, uh, I don't have to die, right?" and the monk answers this question with "You do not have the same evil within you". It seems like a pretty straight-forward answer indicating a big fat "no" to me.

[Teal'c]

Ah, but you're ignoring the above mentioned conversation between Daniel and the monk which flat out says you don't have to die.

He didn't ascend onscreen (Unless Harsesis actually have the power to become sandstorms )

[Ugly Pig]

He didn't ascend onscreen (Unless Harsesis actually have the power to become sandstorms )

I'm not talking about what we saw in "Absolute Power". I'm talking about what we were told in "Maternal Instinct". Pay attention.

[greytop]

Anubis may have ascended. If he wasn't over the edge, he wouldn't be Anubis. Every Scifi show has to have the badest of the bad.