Star Trek Ships vs. Stargate Ships

[darth_timon]

Sorry to read that, my computer occasionally shuts off, pretty annoying when you're trying to write a reply, hence why if mine are gonna be lengthy I'll copy and paste them into office and save every chance I get.

I'm due a bonus at work, which, along with anything else I can scrape together may need to go toward a new PC. Which is annoying as we need carpet!

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

I'm just gonna sum up my point in case anything's gotten lost with my lengthy replies.

Drones eat through solid matter, we've seen them do this and they go through shields.
The simplest answer to this whole thing is that whatever allows them to easily eat through solid matter is what allows them to go through a Ha'Tak's shields.
This doesn't require any never before seen mechanism, like a phasing ability or the ability to hyper jump like a 302 through a shield.

So what if Drones don't create a glow on the shields, there is no law on this show that states this has to happen in order for something to penetrate a shield.
In every situation when this glow appeared some amount of energy is actually spreading over the outside of the shield and in all situations some energy is being absorbed onto the shield from the impacting weapon shot.
An Ancient Drone being a device that penetrates through creating a localized tiny gap in the field doesn't have to show the shield it's creating a hole in, it's also not an energy bolt or basic bullet/missile with no effect besides kinetic or explosive energy, the fact that it slips through a hole not much larger than itself should show how efficient it is at doing so, basically there's no fallout onto it's surroundings, it doesn't leave behind much evidence it's been there besides the hole it's made.

The link between an Ancient Drone drilling it's way through solid matter and the penetration through a Ha'Tak's shields is a very obvious one and doesn't require some extra mechanism which is neither mentioned to exist or shown in any visual evidence on the show.

You're reading far too much into something that isn't there to try and come up with something that isn't necessary to allow for a weapon to penetrate an energy shield.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

Just so you know Darth I've created a thread to pose the question of how Ancient Drones work in the SGA Tech folder.

Here's the link to it:

http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/8...ork?p=13246278

We can continue to discuss this whole issue here if you like or in that thread, but I thought it may get some interest from none ST fans or from those that don't partake of the general Vs discussion thing on Gateworld.

I did mention that this discussion here is what made me create the thread, I've also mentioned that you, Vancho and I were arguing about the topic.

[darth_timon]

Just so you know Darth I've created a thread to pose the question of how Ancient Drones work in the SGA Tech folder.

Here's the link to it:

http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/8...ork?p=13246278

We can continue to discuss this whole issue here if you like or in that thread, but I thought it may get some interest from none ST fans or from those that don't partake of the general Vs discussion thing on Gateworld.

I did mention that this discussion here is what made me create the thread, I've also mentioned that you, Vancho and I were arguing about the topic.

It's a good idea, as it does seem to be a seperate topic in many ways. We have lurched off on a tangeant!

I've had to do a factory restore on my PC, which so far, has it working ok. Now to download Star Trek Online again!

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

It's a good idea, as it does seem to be a seperate topic in many ways. We have lurched off on a tangeant!

I've had to do a factory restore on my PC, which so far, has it working ok. Now to download Star Trek Online again!

Yeah, hope that sorts out your PC.
I don't know what else can be said here, just posted some points in that thread, please feel free to have a read.

[McAvoy]

It does not need to be stated that shields glow upon weapon impacts because we see it happen every single time a weapon hits the shield, which serves as direct, observable evidence of weapon/shield interaction! The only time we don't see this obvious indicator of weapon/shield interaction is when drones are used. The onus is therefore on you to prove there is interaction between the drones and shields.

Here lies the problem: Assuming.

We are assuming that when the shields are up there will be reaction for the shieldswhen something hits it or goes through it. Obviously for Stargate we have to assume that the shields didn't react with the drones. Off of the top of my head I can't remember if this ever happened before where shields didn't react to something when they should have.

But again I stress this: Star Trek ships are made of totally different materials than Stargate ships. Their shields are possibly different as well. It is entirely possible that drones may bypass shields in Stargate but they may not in Star Trek.

The other issue is how powerful are these drones to begin with? From the times we saw, we have no definite clue if it was drones themselves or the drones hitting something critical within the ship. If Star Trek ships are vulnerable to these drones then I give it to Stargate (for those places/ships equipped) as Star Trek ships (at least in TNG) have toilet paper warp cores.

[qingbest]

If they're allowed to pull something like that out of nowhere then for the sake of fairness you have to allow the Romulans the same potential. Like blowing up the sun with trilithium, sneaking a Romulan agent into the US with a cloaked shuttle full of anti matter and a map to Cheyenne mountain, or firing one of their artificial singularities through the SGC stargate.

Episode 13 Alliances from Season 2 of Stargate Universe the Lucian Alliance sent a cloaked cargo ship to blow up the Pentagon and I believe they were detected upon entering the solar system but they didn't have time to throw up the defences for some reason I forgot.

I have to say that we were told the amount of power Arcturus generated by the characters in Trinity, it wasn't 120,000 ZPM's worth, it was 12 ZPMs worth at 50%, so if you're trying to imply arcturus was that powerful I'm affraid you're wrong, trying to generate that kind of power wouldn't be safe with arcturus, especially considering it's not controllable in it's weakened form.

Now I believe you misinterpret my statement. Perhaps I should restate it and rephrase it for your likings. The power levels I might be reading when they evacuated was 120,000 plus my Ancient writing is very limited and can only provide a assumption on the characters that are clearly translated.

Hyerspace windows are not like warp drives all warp is much much slower remember the stargate epsiode where carter said the gouald mothereship was atleast a year from earth.And they made it there in a day that means they where atleast 10,000 lightyears away.You know how long that would take with warp atleast 10 years.

The episode is Within The Serpents Grasp and The Serpents Lair. Also in the episode it states that it wouldn't be there for another year travelling at 10 times the speed of light and the equation goes:
300,000 km/s * 1 year which is 365 days
365 days * 24 hours = 8760 hours
8760 hours * 60 seconds = 525600 seconds
525600 seconds * 300,000 km = 157,680,000,000 km
157,680,000,000 km * 10 times as carter describes = 1,576,800,000,000 km is what Carter is assuming and it is probably more than that. I used 300,000 km just so I don't have a headache but the actual speed of light is 299,997 km/s

I honestly do not think the Goauld do not even have a thousand ships unless you count the smaller ones.

They do by canon in the movie Continuum where Apophis massed an attack on Earth and there would be every ship blocking exit or so and I could count a few hundred but who says there can't be more ships on the other side of Earth.

Anubis's weapon is a one off weapon that requires a unique power source and a way to utilize it. Star Trek can do this in a much more compact and efficient weapon.

Anubis was going to try Naqudridah but failed due to instability in the mineral....... and so on and so forth

[qingbest]

Doesn't it stand to reason though if you're up against any size force that is utterly unbeatable, than it would seem as though an all out invasion was inevitable? It's forecasting, sure, but if the foreseeable future didn't look promising in terms of a weapon capable of beating such powerful ships, then it may look like those mere four ships could 'take the fight' through the whole galaxy.

And then Vala came to earth by the still linked communication stones to warn Earth about a incoming invasion..... And when they came over 30 ships got crippled or destroyed in the battle including the Korolev and one Oneill class ship on top of about 30 or so Goa'uld motherships leaving one badly damaged and the Odyssey having less than 1 day of life support left.....

I know that Anubis basically subjugated all of the System Lords, but it seems like in every case of System Lord unification or conquest, that there were still several factions that had in some way or another separated themselves from the main force. All of the sudden there's a group of Goa'uld that Earth was unaware of who would ally with the SGC for the sake of beating a common enemy. Essentially, even the largest forces created by a Goa'uld never seemed to truly represent the whole of the Goa'uld species and their resources, as was the case with the Wraith.

I believe those in the fight were FREE Jaffa. And also they contributed alot towards the destruction of Anubis as well you know also I would like to inform you that all system lords love conquest and they love stealing also they are fond of symbiont which are controlling them not the human counterpart.

The APBWs were more effective than the majority of other SG weaponry, especially against the Wraith, they went through solid matter like the Ori's hulls like butter, the only race that seemed able to hold them back against their hull were the aliens from the alternate reality in Daedalus Variations.

However if you haven't noticed that they were targeting a specific system on that particular ship not the entire hull or something explosive like a power generator or a armoury or a missile tube or such.

You know, part of me is tempted to get back into this... but not without beer, and I've given up for Lent.

Please come back I beg you

The big trouble with both Star Trek and Stargate is an appalling lack of consistency with firepower and energy levels. Both shows seem to rely on 'plot of the week' circumstances- one week they're destroying mountains, the next they can't take out a single measly village.

I do wonder if we'll ever see a sci-fi show that has firepower shown in a consistent manner.

Perhaps Battlestar Galactica can fill that curiosity.

Lol, know that feeling, save the beers up for special occasions, you'll appreciate them more.

And I know how feeling exhausted is and I would give something to turn 18 for one single day.

It's also worth noting that Goa'uld ships have spent several hours in the corona of a star- 'Enemies' being the example. And it's also worth noting that this was a blue giant star. Whichever type of blue giant star, they are more energetic and powerful than the sub Sun-size star from TNG's Survivors.

Its also worth some calculations to be sent to BOINC to calculate however I believe being in a blue supergiant is approx. 100 times more powerful than Lantean CME.

Of course, as we've discussed at length before, there are certain things we should expect to see there really was 30% damage to the planet's surface- plumes of superheated material being blasted from the surface, fireballs, any sign of large energy release really. None of these are present in TDIC.

It's worth looking at this link http://stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essa...tml#ForeShadow. You can see what a crust-destroying level of firepower is supposed to look like.

I've tried to find a video to match but so far no luck. I guess Lexx simply isn't that popular!

I know you raised the idea that the destruction in TDIC wouldn't necessarily produce the expected visual effects due to the nature of the weaponry used, but this would require phasers/disruptors to violate the laws of thermodynamics- specifically that energy has to go somewhere. If they're operating through any means that violates the laws of thermodynamics then they become impossible to quantify. If they're operating through some kind of chain reaction then you can't use TDIC to work out firepower.

Nice link there I have been having rare moments where I can surf the internet freely and fine one due to DDOS attacks. Shall we begin the law of energy displacement lesson? To @Rise-of-the-Phoenix Anyway I will state some or one law of physics that can not be changed.
1. Atoms can not be created or destroyed however they can be changed from one form to another. Same goes for energy. Energy can not be created or destroyed but can be changed from one form to another. So the phaser and disruptor blasts have to go somewhere unless they completely changed the law of energy conservation. As I was saying phaser and disruptor blast have to end up in another form. Are you saying that the smoke and dust and other distortions on the planet the effects of "energy conservation" in the 24th or 25th century?

You've used this example before but you've never actually provided evidence of how far it went into the corona.
The very fact that we can see anything besides the actual plasma of the Blue Giant proves that the Ha'Tak had to have been a massive distance away from the most energy dense region of that star's corona, Tetsujin pointed this out to you in a reply he posted more than a year ago.
While a corona is a hotter region of a Star it's edge wouldn't be the hottest or most powerful part, logically that would be further inside the corona, so this argument of a Blue Giant's coronasphere automatically making the Ha'Tak withstand energy levels far in excess of a ship that sat right inside the Corona and just above the photosphere is unfounded.
Jacob says they just entered the Corona of the Blue Giant, that they went far enough in to mask them from their enemy's sensors, when the Ha'tak has settled and hasn't moved we can clearly see the edge of the Star, so it was a great distance from the Star and likely just below the outer edge of the Corona.
The burden of proof is on you to prove that Ha'Tak was actually withstanding more energy than the Enterprise D, since you are the one who actually brought this point up.
The Enterprise D was in a corona for an extended period of time, it was deep within the Corona, since the E D was not far from the Photosphere and Corona's can extend for millions of kilometers the E D would have been taking close to the maximum output of it's Star for the length of time it was in there.

And if you do go and google up star corona you will find that our star corona is at a effective 1 million degrees Kelvin and thats for a class-G or spectral class-K. Also a class-O star would radiate more heat where ever a ship or what is, however your point has been noted and will be made refuted on the next post if I ever get to it.
Even if the Enterprise D was in the corona of a class what star I believe class-M or class-G star. A class-O would be at least 10 times more powerful than our own star that we rely on. Anyway a star when a star is radiating its temperature will always remain sufficiently the same except when it has burned almost all its fuel, the process in which the star exchanges heat from the outer layers and the inner is convection by the time it come back out the heat will have most certainly cooled down to go back down into the inner layers for more heat and this process goes on for however long the star age and lifespan is.

Lexx is a TV show too, it's fiction and not necesserally an accurate depiction of such an event.
We don't have to assume that such plumes would always be visible or that they would even be witnessed, not when we consider how ST weapons behave when making contact with their targets, it's a fact of the show that they don't produce such byproducts.
I'm not denying that a straight heat or impact weapon would produce bright flashes or expose molten material, sending it far into orbit, but Trek weapons of 24th century era have never displayed such byproducts save for 8472's planet destroyer beam.
If you're trying to prove that ST has to show these effects then you need to provide evidence of such, you haven't, again the burden is on you.

Please refer to one of the earlier sections of this post in which I explained the law of energy conservation and the law of thermodynamics I think.

It's only ever stated by Picard what he thinks the Borg's motives were, say whatever you like about First Contact, but in no line of Diologue do the Borg actually say they wanted to destroy the missile complex.
It's been pointed out to you that simply landing stuff through the atmosphere could do far more damage than those blasts, there's no other way to see it, if their intent was to have destroyed that whole area they would and could have

I think it was torpedo or some sort of material they fired, it should have disintegrated upon re-entry of the atmosphere regardless of anti-matter or matter. I know enough science to have some point.

I agree that Asuran Drones are not a patch on Ancient ones, but it's never been stated that such interaction is necessary to down a Stargate shield, nor has it been stated that Ancient drones bypass, never in one line of text.

I do agree that not one line was said about it being able to bypass shields, but we can make an inference that it can from lines such as:
"OUR shields are of no use"
And others I just can't think of one.

Poor example, you said it yourself here energy is radiating around the shield, even though it's penetrated, you can't compare this to a Drone, it's not all energy or being stopped by the shield.

Ok a far better example to use is from the movie Ark of Truth when the Odyssey has taken 10 minutes of beating from 4 Ori vessels and when the shields are at 17% we see energy bleeding though even in small amounts the shield is still trying to stop or resist the blasts and deflect or absorb it in anyway possible and move it away from the ship to prevent damage but it can't it just keeps bleeding we can see clearly there are bubble like in the areas that are effected.

But again I stress this: Star Trek ships are made of totally different materials than Stargate ships. Their shields are possibly different as well. It is entirely possible that drones may bypass shields in Stargate but they may not in Star Trek.

Then again it penetrates matter and material. Examples are Wraith which are organic in nature and the hull of a Ha'tak which is Naquadah

The other issue is how powerful are these drones to begin with? From the times we saw, we have no definite clue if it was drones themselves or the drones hitting something critical within the ship. If Star Trek ships are vulnerable to these drones then I give it to Stargate (for those places/ships equipped) as Star Trek ships (at least in TNG) have toilet paper warp cores.

I must agree that the warp cores in TNG are very vulnerable to direct hits and also Voyager's as well. One drone hit on the warp core and there will be a warp core breach in progress happening and will make the ship explode in seconds

[Gormagon]

Wow this thread is still going lol.

[darth_timon]

One day this shall become the longest thread ever!

[McAvoy]

I must agree that the warp cores in TNG are very vulnerable to direct hits and also Voyager's as well. One drone hit on the warp core and there will be a warp core breach in progress happening and will make the ship explode in seconds.

Assuming that the drones can even pierce Star Trek shields. They behave differently than Stargate shields. Regardless, that can be said to any ship with a highly vulnerable spot.

However, we have seen many ships in the Dominion War getting torn to shreds without a warp core breach. The Odyssey (Galaxy class) took a direct ramming hit exactly where the warp core would be. No instant explosion as it took a few seconds where a pieve of debris took out the nacelle. The USS Galaxy herself in the first Battle of Chintoka, took a direct hit from one of the orbital batteries taking out a huge chunk of hull exactly where the warp core should be. The Defiant herself did not blow up like a warp core should when it was destroyed.

If anything, the only ship that showed warp core issues was the E-D herself.

The episode is Within The Serpents Grasp and The Serpents Lair. Also in the episode it states that it wouldn't be there for another year travelling at 10 times the speed of light and the equation goes:
300,000 km/s * 1 year which is 365 days
365 days * 24 hours = 8760 hours
8760 hours * 60 seconds = 525600 seconds
525600 seconds * 300,000 km = 157,680,000,000 km
157,680,000,000 km * 10 times as carter describes = 1,576,800,000,000 km is what Carter is assuming and it is probably more than that. I used 300,000 km just so I don't have a headache but the actual speed of light is 299,997 km/s.

From what I remember of the episode, no distance was given but she stated they were traveling at 10 times the speed of light. That isn't very fast. That is a very, very low estimate for Carter to give. Generally, people should ignore this as later episodes even state at one point 32,000 times the speed of light which is still too slow for intergalactic travel within days or even weeks.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

Episode 13 Alliances from Season 2 of Stargate Universe the Lucian Alliance sent a cloaked cargo ship to blow up the Pentagon and I believe they were detected upon entering the solar system but they didn't have time to throw up the defences for some reason I forgot.

The only defense Earth seems to have since EATG destroyed the Antarctica outpost chair is Atlantis and the 304s that are nearby.
Maybe a few squadrons of 302s.
It makes little sense but the Tauri don't appear to have bothered creating any dedicated planetary defenses that they can actually repair and place themselves.

Now I believe you misinterpret my statement. Perhaps I should restate it and rephrase it for your likings. The power levels I might be reading when they evacuated was 120,000 plus my Ancient writing is very limited and can only provide a assumption on the characters that are clearly translated.

No Ouroboros was stating what is canon fact, it is stated by characters in the episode Trinity that Arcturus was outputting 12 ZPMs worth of power, I don't know how can even think you know how to speak Ancient.

The episode is Within The Serpents Grasp and The Serpents Lair. Also in the episode it states that it wouldn't be there for another year travelling at 10 times the speed of light and the equation goes:
300,000 km/s * 1 year which is 365 days
365 days * 24 hours = 8760 hours
8760 hours * 60 seconds = 525600 seconds
525600 seconds * 300,000 km = 157,680,000,000 km
157,680,000,000 km * 10 times as carter describes = 1,576,800,000,000 km is what Carter is assuming and it is probably more than that. I used 300,000 km just so I don't have a headache but the actual speed of light is 299,997 km/s

I don't know why you were quoting this, you seem to be quoting from one person's posts at the start of their posts and then adding in stuff from other people's posts in this thread.
Please put which post you quoted each quote from otherwise it becomes awkward to find what this quote was in response to.

They do by canon in the movie Continuum where Apophis massed an attack on Earth and there would be every ship blocking exit or so and I could count a few hundred but who says there can't be more ships on the other side of Earth.

Are we meant to use this continuum example as proof of what the main SGverse has in the way of a fleet size?
I don't think that continuum can be taken as proof and even if it was the firepower of those Ha'Taks was very weak in relation to Trek.
Even if the Goauld can muster a fleet of this size it would make little difference to a fleet of warbirds, they'd own them with ease.

Anubis was going to try Naqudridah but failed due to instability in the mineral....... and so on and so forth

So Anubis still only had the one weapon that came remotely close to the firepower of an NX-01 from 200 years before the majority of ST canon.
Anubis's super weapon that leveled the dakara pyramid was destroyed, basically the Goauld have nothing that even comes close to the firepower of the weakest of ST ships.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

And then Vala came to earth by the still linked communication stones to warn Earth about a incoming invasion..... And when they came over 30 ships got crippled or destroyed in the battle including the Korolev and one Oneill class ship on top of about 30 or so Goa'uld motherships leaving one badly damaged and the Odyssey having less than 1 day of life support left.....

Camelot didn't show over 30 ships facing the Ori's motherships.
There were 10 ships, 2 304s, 1 Asgard ship, and 4 Ha'taks were there at first, then another 3 showed up that Teal'c managed to get from the Lucianne Alliance.

I believe those in the fight were FREE Jaffa. And also they contributed alot towards the destruction of Anubis as well you know also I would like to inform you that all system lords love conquest and they love stealing also they are fond of symbiont which are controlling them not the human counterpart.

Jaffa can be easily turned, the ST powers would find it easy to convince the Goauld's followers to change sides.

Perhaps Battlestar Galactica can fill that curiosity.

Has nothing to do with this discussion.

Nice link there I have been having rare moments where I can surf the internet freely and fine one due to DDOS attacks. Shall we begin the law of energy displacement lesson? To @Rise-of-the-Phoenix Anyway I will state some or one law of physics that can not be changed.
1. Atoms can not be created or destroyed however they can be changed from one form to another. Same goes for energy. Energy can not be created or destroyed but can be changed from one form to another. So the phaser and disruptor blasts have to go somewhere unless they completely changed the law of energy conservation. As I was saying phaser and disruptor blast have to end up in another form. Are you saying that the smoke and dust and other distortions on the planet the effects of "energy conservation" in the 24th or 25th century?

I know the basics of thermodynamics and laws of energy.
I wasn't taking about creating fission in atoms, I have always talked about separating atoms from each other.
We're seeing proof of solid matter being turned to dust, there doesn't have to be a huge energy release, think about it like nanotech, separating the atoms from each other, quite simple really, ST weapons have to be affecting the bond between atoms, especially if they're not releasing masses of energy, it's far more efficient than a nuke or some nuclear reaction.

And if you do go and google up star corona you will find that our star corona is at a effective 1 million degrees Kelvin and thats for a class-G or spectral class-K. Also a class-O star would radiate more heat where ever a ship or what is, however your point has been noted and will be made refuted on the next post if I ever get to it.
Even if the Enterprise D was in the corona of a class what star I believe class-M or class-G star. A class-O would be at least 10 times more powerful than our own star that we rely on. Anyway a star when a star is radiating its temperature will always remain sufficiently the same except when it has burned almost all its fuel, the process in which the star exchanges heat from the outer layers and the inner is convection by the time it come back out the heat will have most certainly cooled down to go back down into the inner layers for more heat and this process goes on for however long the star age and lifespan is.

Again you haven't properly read or understood the point I was getting at.
The Ha'Tak in Enemies was sitting on the outer edge of the star's corona, heat wouldn't be as intense on the edge of the Corona.
A star will have a hotter zone closer to it's photosphere, because this is where energy is being released from the Star's atmosphere.
The Enterprise D was basically sitting on top of the photosphere it was close to.
Prove that the Blue Giant in Stargate was hotter on the outer edge of it's corona than the just above the Photosphere of the yellow star of Star Trek.

You haven't refuted anything so far, I doubt you will refute this in the future.

Please refer to one of the earlier sections of this post in which I explained the law of energy conservation and the law of thermodynamics I think.

This has been dealt with.

I think it was torpedo or some sort of material they fired, it should have disintegrated upon re-entry of the atmosphere regardless of anti-matter or matter. I know enough science to have some point.

It was never stated what weapons the Borg were using to fire at the Phoenix's site, but they are not in the same league as lesser powers of the 24th century of ST.
If the Borg wanted to level the site they could have done by simply beaming a bomb down to the launch site, they could have used any one of a number of methods to take out the Phoenix, they didn't, so it cannot be said that destroying the phoenix was their plan.

I do agree that not one line was said about it being able to bypass shields, but we can make an inference that it can from lines such as:
"OUR shields are of no use"
And others I just can't think of one.

You cannot make an inference out of that, all it means is the shields can't hold back the drones, it's too amibiguous of a statement to say that bypassing is happening, in fact the other evidence we have for Drones proves that they'd don't bypass.
Please see the thread I linked to Darth to see what conclusions were made on how a Drone is most likely getting through shields and anything else.

Ok a far better example to use is from the movie Ark of Truth when the Odyssey has taken 10 minutes of beating from 4 Ori vessels and when the shields are at 17% we see energy bleeding though even in small amounts the shield is still trying to stop or resist the blasts and deflect or absorb it in anyway possible and move it away from the ship to prevent damage but it can't it just keeps bleeding we can see clearly there are bubble like in the areas that are effected.

Drones aren't bypassing, please see that thread I pointed out to you.

Then again it penetrates matter and material. Examples are Wraith which are organic in nature and the hull of a Ha'tak which is Naquadah

Drones penetrate an organic hull from Stargate, it's a material that's entirely foreign to Star Trek.
Thickness and density aren't known exactly.

I must agree that the warp cores in TNG are very vulnerable to direct hits and also Voyager's as well. One drone hit on the warp core and there will be a warp core breach in progress happening and will make the ship explode in seconds

A 304 can destroy a Hive by crashing into a section of it's hull.
Igniting a ship's fuel source or a vessel's generator would destroy it in most sci-fi universes.
It works for any show.

[darth_timon]

There is one area where I feel the Federation is superior to the Goauld. The Federation designs much prettier ships.

The Hatak is fairly functional but quite ugly. The Alkesh are slightly easier on the eyes but nothing beats the Defiant for looks.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

I like both shows for ship design.
Dispite their less curvy styles 304s or Auroras have something that makes them really appealing to me.

Gotta love an armored up Voyager.
The Sovereign has a lovely elegance to it, as do the Asgard's silver battle ships in New Order, it's almost like they cut one piece of silver and made a shiny ship out of it.

The O'Neill (the one in New Order or Revalations) looks like it's been thuroughly detailed like a perfect sports car, polished to perfection, absolutely gorgeous.