Star Trek Ships vs. Stargate Ships

[morrismike]

What happens when a Hatak runs into a simple cargo ship and gets blasted from the sky?

[qingbest]

OK, so you agree that Earth was able to make hyperdrive work, it's just that they lacked the necessary power to open a window?
I have seen Darkness and I agree that Destiny does trump the metaphasic shields of Enterprise D, but Enterprise D is still capable of something no other SG ship is capable of.

The reason I asked why you replied to those posts was because it's highly unlikely they will ever reply, since they don't appear to have posted even on Gateworld for years.

They didn't lack the requirements though they needed a buffer to prevent a overload. And watch Twin Destinies the shield was able to hold for about 17 hours (estimate) very close to a star.(approx. 100KM from it). Watch Blockade the Destiny is able to go through a blue supergiant to refuel but with difficulty and had most repairs undone. This is the degradation of the ship and has traveled approx. 7 B LYs across the universe. And the battles it was and is in. It can hold up against the whatever aliens who attacked for 45 minutes before jumping to FTL. What about the binary pulsar that kept striking the shield and I know how to read some ancient and it says that the pulsar is approx. 100GW pre strike. Reference Divided, Incursion both parts and Intervention. I know the have never posted in years, but the reason I only started to post is because I am 13

[qingbest]

It's true that in the real world satellites may not be of any use because the enemy will just drop out of ftl behind them, but in SG no one uses this strategy, so it's out of character.



I ST transwarp conduits are detectable, so it's possible something similar like hyperspace travel will be detected, especially with ships entering and exiting hyperspace.
BTW as I've said to darth Goauld Symbiots can be easily detected using XRay technology, sensors in the 24th century are far more advanced than this, there's no reason to think a symbiot would go undetected, trill are detectable and can be scanned with ease by Federation sensors.


They'd be detected by sensors, foreign life forms will be noticed inside of someone's body.

They can and they can't detect somethings without having a Xray in front of them.
1. Teal'c dropped the Cargo ship behind Aunbis's fleet and on its way to the South pole.
2. They didn't notice Teal'c's symboit until they had a scanner in front of him.
Reference is Children of the Gods and Lost city
I haven't watched ST so don't start complaining.
Ship against ship
Odyssey against Sovereign would be a very clear outcome that the Odyssey would win.
Daedalus against Sovereign would be a very cloudy judgement because of the firepower of the Daedalus.
BTW can someone get a Repository of Knowledge chair and have the annoying simulation that has been running in my head get removed and deleted or download it to the computer and watch it.

[qingbest]

ST worlds could detect Naquada (in the gould) from satelites or land based sensors. Infiltration is unlikely.

unlikely for lengthy periods of time. They just need to get what they need and they'll be off.

[qingbest]

What happens when a Hatak runs into a simple cargo ship and gets blasted from the sky?

simple answer the cargo ship explodes and the hatak would be 'fine.'I guess

[darth_timon]

Phoenix, I've set up a profile on debate.org. the sign up process is a bit long winded but I think it is the best site for our debate. I will try to address your question later

[qingbest]

Phoenix, I've set up a profile on debate.org. the sign up process is a bit long winded but I think it is the best site for our debate. I will try to address your question later

Wow! Really.

[darth_timon]

Whatever you like, I don't mind, if you wanna create a thread just for that feel free, just post a link in here to it's location and I'll post in there.
No underhand behavour though, just post the evidence as it's shown with links to episodes in question, no trying to sway people's opinions with tweaked info and I'll do as I've always done in here.

You'll probably have to call it something like Goauld Infiltration of Federation Space.

I was actually thinking of revisiting the firepower debate one last time- I've set up an account on http://www.debate.org/ and if you let me know once you've joined then we can start a proper debate for our peers to judge.

I wouldn't be surprized if we end up back here again though, there will always be people who have a vested interested in either side of the argument, I'm into both SG and ST, so I'm not biased to any side because of personal preferences, I just look at the facts and make my judgements based on them.

What I will attempt to do is to say to people 'forget what show you enjoy the most, try to be objective whilst looking at the evidence'. I doubt this will work with everyone, but hopefully we'll get at least some impartial comments.

BTW I would appreciate answers to any questions I've posted in my last replies to you, if you can quote any parts of my replies to you that have come accross like I'm being missleading or untruthful I would appreciate knowing where I've done this, because I honestly don't know how I can be accused of such things, can you do this?

To be honest, it might be a case of frustration boiling over. For example, the discussion about starship collisions- to me, the visuals are very clear on the matter, and relativisic speeds don't come into play- whereas you approach it from a dramatic licence point of view, which leads to very different conclusions, which I just can't accept. Plus, being accused of ignoring evidence myself hasn't exactly improved my responses. I think it's time for a deep breath, then we move this to debate.org, and let our peers decide who is closest to the truth.

[qingbest]

Question for everyone:
Can Federation shields take damage from Ori ship based weapons or any SG weapons?
Because Stargate shields have proof is the Odyssey in the Ark of Truth, what about the Daedalus taking on 10 hive ships or the Odyssey before the upgrades in Camelot and Flesh and Blood, what about the Prometheus taking hits from Anubis flag ship in Lost City or the Pegasus Project where Wraith attack the Odyssey and their shields only operate at 20% efficiency because of the black hole and they get closer to the black hole and beaming bombs aboard or what about the Atlantis's shield holding back ocean for 10,000 years or taking bombardment from 10 hives and their escorts in the Siege or the Daedalus sustaining damage in the forward section before shields could be brought online and they were just dropping out of hyperspace so they don't have the time to raise shields and return fire also power generators are all over the ship so one of them could have been damaged and also shield emitters could have been damage also some shield generators might be there so they could have been damaged and therefore reduced efficiency and strength, but both hives were damaged but still operating or what about the Daedalus in Search and Destroy when the Daedalus is continuously getting shot at by Micheal's cruiser also it had to drop shields to beam John and Ronon in to the infirmary so they would have sustained damage as a result they lost Sublight, Asgard weapons and hyperdrive also life support was also hit and was downed to 50% or what about Atlantis vs Superhive it only had one full ZPM and it took less than 1 minute to almost collapse them with the pressure of the Earth's atmosphere straining them and they are firing weapons to the hive so it would be very difficult to keep the city up and they didn't have enough power to keep firing and adjust the course which the ZPM was approx. 2-3%(assumption) remaining when they landed and cloaked. Lets list Universe ummm.... the ship Destiny held for 45 minutes with 3 ships firing at them and they made a FTL jump when the shield was failing approx. >10% because the ship never jumps at less than 10% which is preprogrammed next is the ship under attack from the same enemies but in the void and only 2 ships though the battle only lasted about 5-10 minutes as they were firing weapons and had strain on the shields from the battle next the fight with the drones they were in a ship graveyard and the incapacitated drones detected their presence and send one drone to investigate to find it is a ship and the shuttle go to one of the intact dormant ship and finds that they are attacking the fight lasted for approx. 2 minutes before shields started to weaken and were losing shields and some crashed into the ship and hitting the hull which indicates the shields are weaken by approx. 50% and the seed ship arrived and they diverted all remaining power to the shields to successful transit through the star and the battle with the command ship is more the seed ship takes them directly to the command ship and they are met with the full force of the drones and the fact they are firing from a 360 degree angle through out the battle the shields held for approx. 1-2 minutes before they started to weaken and they have to withdraw from the battle though they don't have FTL next episode the fight continues with the drones winning because they are losing structural integrity in most sections, and are losing shield emitter relays(shield emitter relays being burnt) they only defeated the command ship only because they jammed the subspace signal and destroyed the ship and Chloe's friends arrive to draw attention of the drones to them in order to fight the command ship. The aliens thought it was safe to contact the colony because they defeated the command ship they got the signal back in machine language and the next command ship is on approach in hyperspace and therefore they retrieve one and used it for study and how to permanently jam the subspace signal they were unsuccessful however Eli found the program that was assigned to the drones from the command ship and prepares to write a new one to get the existing drones to battle the operational drones to give enough time to restore shields however when they do the shields are at 5% and they risk tearing the ship apart if the shield can not attenuate under the pressure of FTL. Next the battle at the star at they were going to refuel but they jumped to FTL when the ship was under attack approx. 20 seconds since the drones started to shoot they go away. Next is the drone attack on the Novan evacuation colony from the homeworld Novus and Destiny because of the Stargate activation the drones know the location of both coordinates, and advances to attack they damaged the Stargate and they have damaged the Destiny however they were able to jump to FTL in reasonable time. Last episode they have a command ship at every Stargate on Destiny path through the galaxy, they have the element of surprise and they organize an attack on it by modulating the shields and attacking the command ship specifically they destroy it and they get some supplies and they know it won't work again, they decide to go into stasis pods and wait 3 years however due to the damage 8 pods are not responding and therefore they need a material called Palladium Hydride to repair the super heat conductors, they drop out of FTL and they lure the command ship to shuttle which was set to self destruct when it got close to ship and they got the Palladium Hydride they jump and repair the pods but one of them was more damaged than they thought and it wouldn't engage, Eli volunteer.

[morrismike]

Question for everyone:
Can Federation shields take damage from Ori ship based weapons or any SG weapons?
Because Stargate shields have proof is the Odyssey in the Ark of Truth, what about the Daedalus taking on 10 hive ships or the Odyssey before the upgrades in Camelot and Flesh and Blood, what about the Prometheus taking hits from Anubis flag ship in Lost City or the Pegasus Project where Wraith attack the Odyssey and their shields only operate at 20% efficiency because of the black hole and they get closer to the black hole and beaming bombs aboard or what about the Atlantis's shield holding back ocean for 10,000 years or taking bombardment from 10 hives and their escorts in the Siege or the Daedalus sustaining damage in the forward section before shields could be brought online and they were just dropping out of hyperspace so they don't have the time to raise shields and return fire also power generators are all over the ship so one of them could have been damaged and also shield emitters could have been damage also some shield generators might be there so they could have been damaged and therefore reduced efficiency and strength, but both hives were damaged but still operating or what about the Daedalus in Search and Destroy when the Daedalus is continuously getting shot at by Micheal's cruiser also it had to drop shields to beam John and Ronon in to the infirmary so they would have sustained damage as a result they lost Sublight, Asgard weapons and hyperdrive also life support was also hit and was downed to 50% or what about Atlantis vs Superhive it only had one full ZPM and it took less than 1 minute to almost collapse them with the pressure of the Earth's atmosphere straining them and they are firing weapons to the hive so it would be very difficult to keep the city up and they didn't have enough power to keep firing and adjust the course which the ZPM was approx. 2-3%(assumption) remaining when they landed and cloaked. Lets list Universe ummm.... the ship Destiny held for 45 minutes with 3 ships firing at them and they made a FTL jump when the shield was failing approx. >10% because the ship never jumps at less than 10% which is preprogrammed next is the ship under attack from the same enemies but in the void and only 2 ships though the battle only lasted about 5-10 minutes as they were firing weapons and had strain on the shields from the battle next the fight with the drones they were in a ship graveyard and the incapacitated drones detected their presence and send one drone to investigate to find it is a ship and the shuttle go to one of the intact dormant ship and finds that they are attacking the fight lasted for approx. 2 minutes before shields started to weaken and were losing shields and some crashed into the ship and hitting the hull which indicates the shields are weaken by approx. 50% and the seed ship arrived and they diverted all remaining power to the shields to successful transit through the star and the battle with the command ship is more the seed ship takes them directly to the command ship and they are met with the full force of the drones and the fact they are firing from a 360 degree angle through out the battle the shields held for approx. 1-2 minutes before they started to weaken and they have to withdraw from the battle though they don't have FTL next episode the fight continues with the drones winning because they are losing structural integrity in most sections, and are losing shield emitter relays(shield emitter relays being burnt) they only defeated the command ship only because they jammed the subspace signal and destroyed the ship and Chloe's friends arrive to draw attention of the drones to them in order to fight the command ship. The aliens thought it was safe to contact the colony because they defeated the command ship they got the signal back in machine language and the next command ship is on approach in hyperspace and therefore they retrieve one and used it for study and how to permanently jam the subspace signal they were unsuccessful however Eli found the program that was assigned to the drones from the command ship and prepares to write a new one to get the existing drones to battle the operational drones to give enough time to restore shields however when they do the shields are at 5% and they risk tearing the ship apart if the shield can not attenuate under the pressure of FTL. Next the battle at the star at they were going to refuel but they jumped to FTL when the ship was under attack approx. 20 seconds since the drones started to shoot they go away. Next is the drone attack on the Novan evacuation colony from the homeworld Novus and Destiny because of the Stargate activation the drones know the location of both coordinates, and advances to attack they damaged the Stargate and they have damaged the Destiny however they were able to jump to FTL in reasonable time. Last episode they have a command ship at every Stargate on Destiny path through the galaxy, they have the element of surprise and they organize an attack on it by modulating the shields and attacking the command ship specifically they destroy it and they get some supplies and they know it won't work again, they decide to go into stasis pods and wait 3 years however due to the damage 8 pods are not responding and therefore they need a material called Palladium Hydride to repair the super heat conductors, they drop out of FTL and they lure the command ship to shuttle which was set to self destruct when it got close to ship and they got the Palladium Hydride they jump and repair the pods but one of them was more damaged than they thought and it wouldn't engage, Eli volunteer.

Nobody is going to read that. Use bullets.

[qingbest]

I was actually thinking of revisiting the firepower debate one last time- I've set up an account on http://www.debate.org/ and if you let me know once you've joined then we can start a proper debate for our peers to judge.



What I will attempt to do is to say to people 'forget what show you enjoy the most, try to be objective whilst looking at the evidence'. I doubt this will work with everyone, but hopefully we'll get at least some impartial comments.



To be honest, it might be a case of frustration boiling over. For example, the discussion about starship collisions- to me, the visuals are very clear on the matter, and relativisic speeds don't come into play- whereas you approach it from a dramatic licence point of view, which leads to very different conclusions, which I just can't accept. Plus, being accused of ignoring evidence myself hasn't exactly improved my responses. I think it's time for a deep breath, then we move this to debate.org, and let our peers decide who is closest to the truth.

Someone has debated about USS vs Atlantis so yeah it went for 4 rounds but why don't you do the same.

[qingbest]

I posted to Darth Timon that in the episode The Travelers Rodney makes reference to residual radiation from hyperspace activity.
There's also the similarities between the reality drive and hyperspace technology that Rodney mentions in Daedalus Variations, we can only draw the conclusion that all varieties of hyperspace technology leave behind a noticable radiation signature that is left in space after a window has been activated.

Also the Ancients had technology that could scan subspace (in The Siege Atlantis detects Hives and Cruisers traveling in hyperspace, with it's sensors), the Federation usually detects transwarp signatures from Borg Transwarp Conduits while they are in subspace, so it's highly possible that they could detect such subspace activity from ships traveling using hyperdrive.



Not necessarily, if the federation could duplicate the energy needed to open a window.
All vessels with a warp drive are capable of generating much larger quanities of energy than that of the Tauri, figures of how much energy of how much power the Enterprise D produces have been given within this thread and it was far greater than that of the Beliskner, which has intergalactic hyperdrive technology far beyond that of the Goauld.
BTW this scenario of Darth's has the Goauld arriving in the Milky Way of the Star Trek universe, so there would be no races of the SG universe besides the Goauld.

Being that slipstream can be made using just a slight modification of shunting warp power through the navigational deflector of Voyager in the episode Hope, I think something similar will allow Federation starships to utilize hyperspace, so no new specific drive, just a slight modification and their already existing massive quantities of power generated by their Matter/Antimatter reactors and Fusion power sources.

Where would they get the Naquadriah from? Ok more importantly where will they get the Neutronium that the Asgard technology is made from. Yes Neutronium is obtained from solar panels but where will they get those. Yes thats only Ancient technology there has been no other incidences where in SG they can detect the Subspace dimension created by the hyperdrive. Ok what about the FTL on the Destiny assuming the material they use is hydrogen obtained from a star so where will they get the hydrogen and the materials that are usually obtained in a star? How long can the Enterprise survive while in a star? Because Destiny can survive approx. 18 hours near the star in twin Destinies. Can Federation ships generate ZPM power levels or what about the power levels of the project Icarus, which was used to dial Destiny and exploded due to orbital bombardment and the fact the power they need comes directly from the planets core.

[qingbest]

Question for everyone:
Can Federation shields take damage from Ori ship based weapons or any SG weapons?
Because Stargate shields
*The Odysseys shield in the Ark of Truth taking 188 Ori beam weapons within 10 minutes and collapsed.
*what about the Daedalus taking on 10 hive ships or
*the Odyssey before the upgrades in Camelot and Flesh and Blood taking 2-3 Ori beam weapons
*what about the Prometheus taking hits from Anubis flag ship in Lost City
*the Pegasus Project where Wraith attack the Odyssey and their shields only operate at 20% efficiency because of the black hole and they get closer to the black hole and beaming bombs aboard a wraith hive
*what about the Atlantis's shield holding back ocean for 10,000 years or taking orbital bombardment from 10 hives and their escorts in the Siege
*the Daedalus sustaining damage in the forward section before shields could be brought online and they were just dropping out of hyperspace so they don't have the time to raise shields and return fire also power generators are all over the ship so one of them could have been damaged and also shield emitters could have been damage also some shield generators might be there so they could have been damaged and therefore reduced efficiency and strength, but both hives were damaged but still operating
*what about the Daedalus in Search and Destroy when the Daedalus is continuously getting shot at by Micheal's cruiser also it had to drop shields to beam John and Ronon in to the infirmary so they would have sustained damage as a result they lost Sublight, Asgard weapons and hyperdrive also life support was also hit and was downed to 50%
*what about Atlantis vs Superhive it only had 3 ZPMs but almost depleted 2 while getting to Earth and it took less than 1 minute to almost collapse them with the pressure of the Earth's atmosphere straining them and they are firing weapons to the hive so it would be very difficult to keep the city up and they didn't have enough power to keep firing and adjust the course which the ZPM was approx. 2-3%(assumption) remaining when they landed and cloaked.
Lets list Stargate Universe ummm....
*the ship Destiny held for 45 minutes with 3 ships firing at them and they made a FTL jump when the shield was failing approx. >10% because the ship never jumps at less than 10% which is preprogrammed
*next is the ship under attack from the same enemies but in the void and only 2 ships though the battle only lasted about 5-10 minutes as they were firing weapons and had strain on the shields from the battle
*next the fight with the drones they were in a ship graveyard and the incapacitated drones detected their presence and send one drone to investigate to find it is a ship and the shuttle go to one of the intact dormant ship and finds that they are attacking the fight lasted for approx. 2 minutes before shields started to weaken and were losing shields and some crashed into the ship and hitting the hull which indicates the shields are weaken by approx. 50% and the seed ship arrived and they diverted all remaining power to the shields to transit through the star
*the battle with the command ship is more the seed ship takes them directly to the command ship and they are met with the full force of the drones and the fact they are firing from a 360 degree angle through out the battle the shields held for approx. 1-2 minutes before they started to weaken and they have to withdraw from the battle though they don't have FTL next episode the fight continues with the drones winning because they are losing structural integrity in most sections, and are losing shield emitter relays(shield emitter relays being burnt) they only defeated the command ship only because they jammed the subspace signal and destroyed the ship and Chloe's friends arrive to draw attention of the drones to them in order to fight the command ship.
*The aliens thought it was safe to contact the colony because they defeated the command ship they got the signal back in machine language and the next command ship is on approach in hyperspace and therefore they retrieve one and used it for study and how to permanently jam the subspace signal they were unsuccessful however Eli found the program that was assigned to the drones from the command ship and prepares to write a new one to get the existing drones to battle the operational drones to give enough time to restore shields however when they do the shields are at 5% and they risk tearing the ship apart if the shield can not attenuate under the pressure of FTL.
*Next the battle at the star at they were going to refuel but they jumped to FTL when the ship was under attack approx. 20 seconds since the drones started to shoot they go away.
*Next is the drone attack on the Novan evacuation colony from the homeworld Novus and Destiny because of the Stargate activation the drones know the location of both coordinates, and advances to attack they damaged the Stargate and they have damaged the Destiny however they were able to jump to FTL in reasonable time.
*Last episode they have a command ship at every Stargate on Destiny path through the galaxy, they have the element of surprise and they organize an attack on it by modulating the shields and attacking the command ship specifically they destroy it and they get some supplies and they know it won't work again, they decide to go into stasis pods and wait 3 years however due to the damage 8 pods are not responding and therefore they need a material called Palladium Hydride to repair the super heat conductors
*they drop out of FTL and they lure the command ship to shuttle which was set to self destruct when it got close to ship and they got the Palladium Hydride they jump and repair the pods but one of them was more damaged than they thought and it wouldn't engage, Eli volunteer.
So has any Federation ship sustained such abuse

[darth_timon]

Qingbest, whilst I appreciate that you are arguing in favour of the Gate side, you need to provide more evidence for some of the things you claim, and work on your post structure- it still reads like a giant block of text, which is difficult to follow.

[qingbest]

Qingbest, whilst I appreciate that you are arguing in favour of the Gate side, you need to provide more evidence for some of the things you claim, and work on your post structure- it still reads like a giant block of text, which is difficult to follow.

Evidence is clearly there in the post or is it too long. I only favor SG side is because I have only seen a small number of ST episodes. If you want evidence play ST bridge commander and download the following: SG ship pack 1-3, Kobayshi Maru, and the Destiny ship pack. All have been confirmed by me to work and have accurate information(calculations on damage, etc). All we need to do is get a hive ship and get it to self destruct when its in the federation territory or we lure them to it and it can take enemies out in a 15000 meter radius(ref Stargate Atlantis The hive)