Originally posted by darth_timon
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I am referring to when Deanna uses her empathic ability to locate the position of the Scimitar. First there was a volley of 6 quantum torpedoes to the Scimitar's forward shields, then another volley of at least a phaser shot and 3 more quantum torpedoes and 2 photon torpedoes and a continued exchange of fire on the Scimitar's forward shields while it follows directly behind the enterprise (unless you are somehow suggesting they plotted in a pursuit course while flying backwards or while sideways they were hitting the forward shields) A ship flying at relativistic speeds would actually be quite some force and since Picard ordered Geordi to divert all power to engines they had to be going pretty fast in reality. So the shields and momentum of the Enterprise coupled with damaged forward shields of the Scimitar could have produced a force great enough to overpower the forward shields of the Scimitar. And the shields must have been overpowered and down at that point since Picard transported on to the ship afterwards and Data jumped on to it. I all honestly a logical question for you to be bringing up is why didn't they just warp at the Scimitar if they wanted to ram and destroy it so badly. The fact that they did not shows an illogical element ie plot event. Actually in my mind that entire battle was illogical since it should have been easy for them to follow the cloaked ship once they hit it even once by simply setting a group of phasers to low power and wide dispersal to constantly hit the scimitars shields and follow their most probable trajectories allowing lock on with all other weapons. Another plot element would be how the auto-destruct was magically off line when Picard was ready to blow up the ship. How can the auto-destruct be offline when the warp core is still active and he could have easily just told someone to slap a bomb on or phaser the core or one of the antimatter storage tanks and that would have done it. This is all just to illustrate that plot events do happen, and every visual or scenario is not always how it would actually happen.
You're misrepresenting the facts. 'All of the evidence' does not support high firepower, in fact the visual evidence suggests the complete opposite. The fact remains, the simplest explanation is usually the right one- the chances of starship debris being the cause of the damage we see in Skin of Evil is highly unlikely, for the reasons I have already explained, plus the odds of such debris hitting a city instead of open space are highly unlikely. I have also explained why surface damage would not be apparently unless any hypothetical shield had already failed, so the most likely explanation in like of these simple bits of logic is weapons fire. It is pure assumption on your part that the weapons used would be something other than the norm, especially seeing as the Breen could have paralyzed the Federation's military and political bodies with a single shot under the firepower you claim.
I am saying that we have seen shields and weapons on surface instillation before. So having them on the Federations capital planet is logical. Also paralyzing an opponent with the first shot usually indicates use of the element of surprise. Since Earth would have been pretty fortified and the Breen do not possess cloaking technology I would say the element of complete surprise is not impossible but unlikely. Considering all your evidence on this episode is 100% circumstantial and hypothetical considering there is no dialogue or visuals of the events that took place besides the aftermath, I am choosing to not even address the episode “Changing Face of Evil†any longer.
More speculation on your part. You seek to dismiss the evidence with mystery mechanism and appeals to god-like entities having an influence on proceedings. The bottom line is, a fancy mechanism would have taken out the shields in the first instance, if this is how the shields were brought down, yet they didn't- application of greater power later on did.
Even if we are extremely generous and assume the asteroid was instead 20KM, the energy required to fragment such an asteroid is 8GT. The Enterprise D carried 275 photon torpedoes, so if we divide that by 8GT, we get 0.02GT per torpedo! Another way to do it is to divide 8,000MT by 275- you get 29MT per torpedo- and remember, 20KM is an extremely generous assumption, since the asteroid was in all actuality no bigger than 10KM at an absolutely maximum (in which case we are looking at 3.6MT per torpedo).
Voyager was not a 'good distance' away and neither were the 8472 ships- for that matter, the bright flash we see is not that big in relation to the 8472 ships we see! It's clearly not a huge explosion, no matter how you try to spin it.
A Hatak can take close proximity to a much more energetic star at far closer ranges. The star in Relics was a relative sedate type of star compared to the monster the Hatak sat near- the Hatak absorbed far more energy.[/QUOTE]
You have no evidence of closer ranges. Given the size of the star and the vessel seeing a large portion on the surface we can approximate the full diameter of the star using the shown curvature from that perspective would be a few meters and the Ha'tak is about a few inches. Given those two sizes we can conclude the Ha'tak is very very far away since a standad Ha'tak is only 600m wide and being able to even visually compare them with the Ha'tak being inches and the star not taking up the entire background.
Here is a scale picture of the sizes of the planets in our solar system:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lanets2008.jpg
Here is the difference between Sol and a blue giant and red giant star: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...comparison.png
Given that even in the picture showing only part of our sun earth is incredibly small. If using the two pictures to establish a perspective, compared to a blue giant Earth would not register as anything more than a dot and something less than 1/12,000th the diameter of Earth(The Ha'tak) would not even be seen. So at very least it is many times farther away from the blue giant than the enterprise is from the star with some peoples estimates being around one stellar radius(Half of that stars diameter) away.
Enterprise was stated to be 150,000km(which is more accurate that only visuals and words like “close proximity†and is definitely much less than a stellar radius) from the star during a period of instability and increasing flare activity with only partial shields. Also the Ha'tak would not have gone closer to the star than necessary further denoting a decent distance.
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