Reaching Destiny

[Janus]

The problem with this idea is that it is exceedingly unlikely that 8-Chevron addresses extend out as far as the Destiny has traveled. There are only so many possible 38-choose-7 strings (with the eighth symbol being the Point of Origin), and there are a lot of galaxies within a billion light-years.

For the record, there are 63,606,090,240 possible 8-chevron addresses and 63 million galaxies within 1 billion light-years of Earth. While this would seem to indicate the existence of more than enough addresses to cover the number of galaxies (roughly 1000 addresses for each galaxy), there is a problem. If the addresses really do represent the coordinates of "random" positions in space, then the vast majority of them should fall in the spaces between galaxies.

For example, the Milky Way galaxy has a volume of about 8 trillion cubic light-years. There are three similarly sized galaxies (Milky Way, Andromeda, and Triangulum) in the Local Group, as well as a number of dwarf galaxies that, all together, should add about as much volume as a forth. There is, therefore, about 25 trillion cubic light-years worth of galaxy within the Local Group.

The Local Group, being about 10 million light-years across, has a total volume of about 1,000,000,000 trillion cubic light-years, meaning that it contains about 40,000,000 times as much empty space as it does galaxy.

Then, you look at the fact that the Local Group is a tight pack of galaxies in what is mostly emptiness, and you begin to realize that 63,606,090,240 eight-chevron addresses doesn't even come close to covering the needs of the nearest billion light-years, let alone a few more billion out. Indeed, there are over 7 trillion galaxies in the visible universe - more galaxies than addresses!

Owww....Good point. Okay, Plan C anybody ?

[glennh73]

Simple simple simple. Here is what you do. First you need to grab an extra Zpm. Second you find out from Destinys computers where it went thru the Pegasus galaxy and when. When is very important.

Three, you get the time ship puddlejumper, with the Zpm and crew of 2 or 3 on a mission they wont come back from and Timejump to Destiny while its going threw the Pegasus galaxy Millions of years ago.
While on Destiny park the Puddlejumper in a spot already determined spot and cloaked and left there for the crew of present day.

The two or three member crew can do whatever hence its millions of years ago and wont affect anything.

Present day crew of Destiny having determined the spot of cloaked Puddlejumper can open it up, get the zpm out along with anything else they needed , plug it into the Destiny and power the gate and go home.

Simple really!

[Janus]

Nice

[webxro]

except the fact that you need more then a zpm

[kernl sandrs]

Stargates usually make a precise aimed connection because they all know each other's location thanks to Correlative Updates. Without that, over time because of stellar drift a connection could no longer be made. It would just aim at empty space and get nothing. This bit is established canon.

My theory about the 9 ch. code is that it uses a completely different communication protocol - like sending a signal in all directions because Destiny could be anywhere (proof: massive power usage even before the connection was established), instead of a highly directional beam like normal gate communication. It keeps broadcasting with increasing energy (needing astronomical levels of power, like a whole naquadah planet) until eventually it gets a hit. That initiating signal crossed the vast distance (through some layer of subspace) from the MW to the Destiny in *all* directions to be able to find it. Imagine an ever expanding sphere. This makes sense - Destiny's is a moving gate so it will never have a precise stationary position for a significant amount of time.

....

Now that I posted that to make things clear - to answer your question: if we could somehow precisely determine Destiny's location in one point in time - we can use an 8 chevron address and establish a connection directly (aimed) without needing the lookup signal. It would save some energy, but how much of a difference it would make is yet to be determined - we don't know what it takes to maintain the wormhole vs. sending the signal.

morbosfist's question was "Why would it take any less power to dial an eight-chevron address over the same distance as a nine-chevon one?"

The answer is....It wouldn't [take any less power]. DHD's are able to supplement enough power to the gates for intra-galaxy travel. When dialing another galaxy, it requires extraordinary power to establish a wormhole. We see this in SGA when they don't have enough power to dial the Milky-Way, but can effortlessly dial other planets within that galaxy. The same is seen when needing to establish a wormhole of the supergate, between our galaxy and the Ori galaxy. It was so far away, in fact, that it required the destruction of an entire planet down to a singularity to provide enough power. It's safe to say that the farther away the gate is, the more power it requires. Dialing a galaxy near Destiny would take just as much power as dialing the ship itself.

My theory about the signal is also supported by the events in Air, Incursion and Lost - Destiny will receive the signal for a 9 chevron dialing while in FTL and drop in normal space to receive the wormhole,

Destiny dropped out of FTL for those instances because they dialed the gate properly and had sufficient power.

but won't stop for a standard 7 chevron connection that wouldn't use a signal like this (like in Lost).

Is THIS the episode you're referring to? It didn't drop out of FTL because, if I recall correctly, *ahem* THEY COULD NOT DIAL THE GATE TO DESTINY. They were out of range, and had to 'gate hop' to catch up with Destiny.



I didn't read your WHOLE post, but is it too early to post this?

[Mike.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY


I stopped reading at "time ship puddlejumper", but I did eyeball a few words and phrases of the rest.

[dislike]

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh15/supporter555/picard-facepalm.jpg

You should consider toning down the insults a bit and actually providing real arguments if you want to be taken seriously.

morbosfist's question was "Why would it take any less power to dial an eight-chevron address over the same distance as a nine-chevon one?"

A question which was answered further down the post. The large exposition was necessary to explain what my argument is based on.

The answer is....It wouldn't [take any less power]. DHD's are able to supplement enough power to the gates for intra-galaxy travel. When dialing another galaxy, it requires extraordinary power to establish a wormhole. We see this in SGA when they don't have enough power to dial the Milky-Way, but can effortlessly dial other planets within that galaxy. The same is seen when needing to establish a wormhole of the supergate, between our galaxy and the Ori galaxy. It was so far away, in fact, that it required the destruction of an entire planet down to a singularity to provide enough power. It's safe to say that the farther away the gate is, the more power it requires. Dialing a galaxy near Destiny would take just as much power as dialing the ship itself.

The point is there are plenty of irregularities between the 9 chevron system vs. the 7 or 8 system that leave room for a lot of speculation. So far there is not enough evidence (provided by the show or TPTB) to completely dismiss anything and replace it with something bullet-proof. Any of our 'pet' theories could be correct. I made it clear that parts of what I posted were speculation.

Your theory is also standing on the same shaky grounds BTW.

Destiny dropped out of FTL for those instances because they dialed the gate properly and had sufficient power.

Using a remote is also "dialing a gate properly" - it's how the Ancients designed them to be used. Also considering the distance (at that point in the show) they also had enough power (standard 7 chevron distance). By your theory it should have worked as both requirements are satisfied.

Is THIS the episode you're referring to? It didn't drop out of FTL because, if I recall correctly, *ahem* THEY COULD NOT DIAL THE GATE TO DESTINY. They were out of range, and had to 'gate hop' to catch up with Destiny.

No. At that point in the episode they had already hopped through enough gates to be in range of Destiny. The remote confirmed this. The first time Eli tried to dial he got a busy signal - Rush was returning from another planet at that moment. When he dialed in the second time Destiny had already jumped in FTL. All of this is canon BTW and is also mentioned in the link you posted. You did read it, right ?

I didn't read your WHOLE post[...]

Clearly.

[Quadhelix]

It was so far away, in fact, that it required the destruction of an entire planet down to a singularity to provide enough power.

That was, if you recall from "The Pegasus Project," also due to the Supergate's size - it was explicitly stated that the power requirements were proportional to the size of the event horizon.

Also, remember that they used a naturally occurring black hole to connect to the Supergate from Pegasus.

Dialing a galaxy near Destiny would take just as much power as dialing the ship itself.

Do you have any evidence for this? Your examples show that dialing a planet/galaxy near Destiny would certainly require a significant amount of power, you haven't shown that the amount required would be the same as dialing Destiny's nine-chevron address.

Destiny dropped out of FTL for those instances because they dialed the gate properly and had sufficient power.

And yet, it didn't drop out of FTL in "Lost," in spite of the fact that the 'Gate on the planet had enough power (re: "Sabotage") and Destiny was apparently still in range (re: "Sabotage").

Is THIS the episode you're referring to? It didn't drop out of FTL because, if I recall correctly, *ahem* THEY COULD NOT DIAL THE GATE TO DESTINY. They were out of range, and had to 'gate hop' to catch up with Destiny.

He was talking about the end of "Lost," when Destiny was in range but also in FTL.

I didn't read your WHOLE post, but is it too early to post this?

Yes. Far too early.

Present day crew of Destiny having determined the spot of cloaked Puddlejumper can open it up, get the zpm out along with anything else they needed , plug it into the Destiny and power the gate and go home.

A) That would require giving up a ZPM, of which we have only about five, in order to bring back about 80 people

B) There is no reason to think that a ZPM is capable of providing enough power, especially since nobody seems to have considered it an option for sending things to Destiny (such as the intended expedition).

[JustAnotherVoice]

Simple simple simple. Here is what you do. First you need to grab an extra Zpm. Second you find out from Destinys computers where it went thru the Pegasus galaxy and when. When is very important.

Three, you get the time ship puddlejumper, with the Zpm and crew of 2 or 3 on a mission they wont come back from and Timejump to Destiny while its going threw the Pegasus galaxy Millions of years ago.
While on Destiny park the Puddlejumper in a spot already determined spot and cloaked and left there for the crew of present day.

The two or three member crew can do whatever hence its millions of years ago and wont affect anything.

Present day crew of Destiny having determined the spot of cloaked Puddlejumper can open it up, get the zpm out along with anything else they needed , plug it into the Destiny and power the gate and go home.

Simple really!

I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that mission call up.

O'neill - Volunteers for a one way trip back a million or so years ago! You'll have limited food and supplies, so the trip probably won't be too long, and the company probably won't be great. You'll never see your friends or family again, nor will you ever have a home cooked meal. The good news is, you can bring all the reading material you could ever want, and you'll get a guaranteed 30 years worth of hazard duty packpay deposited straight into your next of kin's accounts! Oh, yeah, you'll all get a single 9mm round for your sidearms. I shouldn't need to explain that. So, hands up!

[vszulc]

One little detail: Why would a ZPM work aboard the Destiny? It's an technology thats much newer than Destiny, and it's either completely uncompatible, or the work needed to modify Destiny would be beyond the possibilities of the present crew.

It would be like trying to hook up a nuclear reactor to a steam locomotive, for crying out loud!

[pillwokie]

SGC was integrateand use a ZPM with the SGC stargate and also on a BC304. So....how is it not possible to find a way to use it on destiny?

The destiny as a ships looks far more advance than the BC304 and the stargate at SGC, even if it is XXXXXXXXXX years older.

[pillwokie]

The SGC was able integrate and use a ZPM with the SGC stargate and also on a BC304. So....how is it not possible to find a way to use it on destiny?

The destiny as a ships looks far more advance than the BC304 and the stargate at SGC, even if it is XXXXXXXXXX years older.

[morbosfist]

The SGC was able integrate and use a ZPM with the SGC stargate and also on a BC304. So....how is it not possible to find a way to use it on destiny?

The destiny as a ships looks far more advance than the BC304 and the stargate at SGC, even if it is XXXXXXXXXX years older.

Looks can be deceiving. A 304 is far more advanced than Destiny technologically.

[pillwokie]

I disagree. It depends on what you consider as more advanced.
Yes the Destiny has no hyperdrive system.
But, if you evaluate few things like Durability(materials it's made of), having its own stargate, holoscreens, being powered by star energy, weapons (by the moment the 304 used the zpm it had only rail guns and nuclear warheads), plus technologies not yet discovered by the crew. Then.......i don't think a 304 is far more advanced.

I really doubt that any 304 could last as long as the destiny have and still be in the condition the destiny is.

[Mike.]

Also Destiny's FTL is not that inferior compared to hyperdrives, the ship crossed that void pretty fast. The shields are used regularly for star diving. In terms of power generation the combined output of Destiny and a seeder ship is on par or better than a ZPM - something which the 304s are not even close to. pillwokie already mentioned the durability.

[morbosfist]

True, in certain areas Destiny is more advanced, longevity chief among them. As far as armament, defenses, etc. go, it has to be behind. Its FTL is pretty fast across the void, better than a standard hyperdrive, but a 304 is faster. The seeder ship's output probably far exceeds that of Destiny, even at full power.