Destiny C02 Scrubber SPOILERS/Spec SGU S1

[knowles2]

Don't mean to sound dumb, but "it is what it is." It is a problem they had when they entered the ship, and had to fix it. Stay in the moment, guys. There are THINGS TO DO to stay alive.

I'm glad y'all know the science and stuff, but IT'S A SHOW! If someone is shooting at you, do you say, oh that's a .22! No...you RUN.

I know you new and all this is what the science and technology area of the forum for, to discuss the technical aspects of the show. An rip it to pieces when necessary or pat them on the back when they get it right.

[Inquisitor]

using realistic equations, they have bought themselves 18 hours of air (on top of what they first had)

assuming they brought 50 kg of lime (which is alot)

True, but you're missing the secret ingredient of TV magic!

[thekillman]

cut that crap. please, if you think that way, this area should be restricted for you.


this is sci and tech, where an episode is ripped apart, studied, commented on, flamed, bashed, ignored, checked for truth, pieced together again to the form that it should be, and then again ripped apart.

that's our fun. technically, they can not survive for much longer than 2 days. however, we might take a shuttle there sometime later and recover more of the stuff.

[Kailias]

Even an ancient ship that is millions of years old... is still countless generations of technology beyond us.

It's possible that with that amount of material, the ancient ship with it's FAR superior technology can maintain the life support system for 100 people for well over one hundred years.

This plot line is over as it's been done and solved now... the writers are going to move onto bigger and better things.

[thekillman]

it's not technology. it's chemistry, and it involves everything we know, ergo we can check it.

still, it bought us time, so obviously rush could work out what the ancients used, get offworld and get it.

like in SG1 and SGA, we probably dont get to see them doing that, as there's no plot to build an episode around. merely getting to a different planet, gathering the stuff and permanently repairing it.

[UniverseSizePlotHole]

Question?: Was Destiny built in space/orbit, in atmo or at sea level?
Note (as per Ark of Truth and Rising - Ancient spacecraft/cityship takeoff to orbit not much of an issue)
I ask that as either way there was effective life support when it was built and launched. So we get to the SGU:now and we have a gunked up chamber so its clearly a maintenance/damage/degredation issue not a systems design flaw.

We are probably talking about a complex system (though you would have though there'd be redundancies too). They have fixed (well maybe hacked is more like it!) to do the job for the moment and as per speculation here that could be under a day effectively.

I however are going to assume that:-
a) this scrubber is not by itself and part of a larger system and as such its sole funcion may be the process that the Destiny team are actually using it for,
b) that the computer system would then advice that its now operating and not flag it as an issue again so soon or for that matter spit out a checklist of what is next to do. Unless the 'ship/AI/computer system' knows it has dumb humans and not 80 Ancients on board it should darn well show everything that's wrong with life support so they could all fix it AT THE SAME TIME!

so to Kailias - +1 plot is moving on

to the chemists I see your point if it was a closed system with no other technology present eg Apollo 13, submarines etc or even Deady in No Man's Land (backup Life Support was destroyed there). Destiny is BIGGGGG. The system cannot just be these 3 scrubbers and a few cement bags of lime.

I'm no Spaceflight Life Support Systems Specialist just a viewer with an opinion!

PS Internation Space Station diagram below shows 'Overboard Venting' for CO2
http://www.nova.org/~sol/station/recycle2.gif

[knowles2]

Question?: Was Destiny built in space/orbit, in atmo or at sea level?
Note (as per Ark of Truth and Rising - Ancient spacecraft/cityship takeoff to orbit not much of an issue)
I ask that as either way there was effective life support when it was built and launched. So we get to the SGU:now and we have a gunked up chamber so its clearly a maintenance/damage/degredation issue not a systems design flaw.

We are probably talking about a complex system (though you would have though there'd be redundancies too). They have fixed (well maybe hacked is more like it!) to do the job for the moment and as per speculation here that could be under a day effectively.

I however are going to assume that:-
a) this scrubber is not by itself and part of a larger system and as such its sole funcion may be the process that the Destiny team are actually using it for,
b) that the computer system would then advice that its now operating and not flag it as an issue again so soon or for that matter spit out a checklist of what is next to do. Unless the 'ship/AI/computer system' knows it has dumb humans and not 80 Ancients on board it should darn well show everything that's wrong with life support so they could all fix it AT THE SAME TIME!

so to Kailias - +1 plot is moving on

to the chemists I see your point if it was a closed system with no other technology present eg Apollo 13, submarines etc or even Deady in No Man's Land (backup Life Support was destroyed there). Destiny is BIGGGGG. The system cannot just be these 3 scrubbers and a few cement bags of lime.

I'm no Spaceflight Life Support Systems Specialist just a viewer with an opinion!

PS Internation Space Station diagram below shows 'Overboard Venting' for CO2
http://www.nova.org/~sol/station/recycle2.gif

One got to wonder why they built a system which vents hydrogen into space when it could be use to power the space station itself.

[morrismike]

I'd assume that there was some sort of benefit in terms of longevity for the Ancients to use such a method perhaps due to whatever 'magical' chemical they used to scrub the CO2 in the first place?

The lifesupport did last for hundreds of thousands of years if not millions.

A solution containing Ca++ cations is about as simple as you can get. I'm sure a race capable of ftl travel (without using warp or hyperspace) could figure out how to scavage C and O2 from a concentrated liquor of CaCo3. Most scrubber technology we used is based upon similar concepts (although efficient regeneration of a Calcium ion based liquor is beyond us). It's not like they can't use some kind of transporter to beam up element Calcium or even store a few tons of it in some kind of sealed container.

[morrismike]

yes but there's a difference between being used and barely being used.

the lime buys them 18 hours. the destiny needs some very fancy scrubbers for longer periods.

SPOILERS

Spoiler:

we know there's an aeroponics lab, so the plants growing there might act as a better system

Submarines use a scrubbing system must smaller than what is shown used by the destiny and there are over a hundred people on a sub. The point you're missing is that the lime was not spread on the floor, it was put into a unit which used liquor to scrub and then extracted CO2 from the liquor. This is 1960s technology. You are thinking way too hard on this topic.

[morrismike]

the air escaped out through the holes in the ship, there was little air left, then 80+ people arrived. hence more CO2.

CO2 goes through scrubbers, carbon bonds to the calcite and oxgen is released

Where did you take your chemistry at?

[morrismike]

Question?: Was Destiny built in space/orbit, in atmo or at sea level?
Note (as per Ark of Truth and Rising - Ancient spacecraft/cityship takeoff to orbit not much of an issue)
I ask that as either way there was effective life support when it was built and launched. So we get to the SGU:now and we have a gunked up chamber so its clearly a maintenance/damage/degredation issue not a systems design flaw.

We are probably talking about a complex system (though you would have though there'd be redundancies too). They have fixed (well maybe hacked is more like it!) to do the job for the moment and as per speculation here that could be under a day effectively.

I however are going to assume that:-
a) this scrubber is not by itself and part of a larger system and as such its sole funcion may be the process that the Destiny team are actually using it for,
b) that the computer system would then advice that its now operating and not flag it as an issue again so soon or for that matter spit out a checklist of what is next to do. Unless the 'ship/AI/computer system' knows it has dumb humans and not 80 Ancients on board it should darn well show everything that's wrong with life support so they could all fix it AT THE SAME TIME!

so to Kailias - +1 plot is moving on

to the chemists I see your point if it was a closed system with no other technology present eg Apollo 13, submarines etc or even Deady in No Man's Land (backup Life Support was destroyed there). Destiny is BIGGGGG. The system cannot just be these 3 scrubbers and a few cement bags of lime.

I'm no Spaceflight Life Support Systems Specialist just a viewer with an opinion!

PS Internation Space Station diagram below shows 'Overboard Venting' for CO2
http://www.nova.org/~sol/station/recycle2.gif

A scrubber on a submarine capable of supporting well over a 100 people is not much bigger than a refrigerator. I'm assuming folks capable of ftl travel with warp or hyperspace could improve upon that. What you are seeing them pull out is the liquor resevoir. The spray wash system (which wasn't shown) could be larger than your house and have 10000s of cfm of air flowing thru it.

[morrismike]

One got to wonder why they built a system which vents hydrogen into space when it could be use to power the space station itself.

It is easier to bring liquid hydrogen and dispose of gaseous hydrogen. A human being needs around 1 scfh of O2 and the corresponding amount of hydrogen is not worth the safety risks of trying to do something with it.

[thekillman]

Submarines use a scrubbing system must smaller than what is shown used by the destiny and there are over a hundred people on a sub. The point you're missing is that the lime was not spread on the floor, it was put into a unit which used liquor to scrub and then extracted CO2 from the liquor. This is 1960s technology. You are thinking way too hard on this topic.

its merely what i know on the subject.

[Jper]

i assumed the rest of the life suport still works it was just the scrubber that was screwed

Yes, that's what is mentioned and what I think to be true. Only this little part of the life support system was broken. And I think, the scrubber itself works fine and all, it's only the liquid, the CO2-capturing component that had "burned out" or whatever had happened to that.

using realistic equations, they have bought themselves 18 hours of air (on top of what they first had)

assuming they brought 50 kg of lime (which is alot)

Only when you're assuming they only use the Calcium-Oxide to capture the CO2 and then let it rest and it's just trash. However, I would think the Ancients would just use the liquid or whatever is present in the container to capture the CO2 as a filter. I'm sure they could turn the formula around and create the Calcium Oxide again. So then there would be a continuous loop/cycle which would last for thousands of years if it's efficient enough and which would probably only need power. Anyway, I don't have a degree in chemistry, but I do know some things about it. Seems possible to me, if I were an Ancient at least. Probably I would then use another substance than Calcium Oxide, too.

It's possible some of the Ancients did occupy the ship for a time, or maybe someone else found it, lived there, and the current crew just havn't found signs of them yet.

I would say everything is possible. Certainly now. It's only been three episodes.

[lumacman]

another mentioned this above, however I want to ask this again.

What on the ship could be putting out CO2?
items that the show mentioned so far.
1. We don't know the exact launch date but we do know the ship is very old. its FTL drives are apparently something unknown before, and quite fast from scenes we have seen. So its safe to say that this ship thousands of years old.

2. Dr. Rush said that the Ancients were never on the ship. If you believe that or not is up to you. Dr. Rush is that type of person that lies for a reason or to benifit himself. I don't see the reason in lieing about that, however I'm not in his head so i cant be sure. this also does not preclude other peoples getting to the ship. however for a very old ship the parts that our crew have explored show a very clean ship. no debri. no signs of past habitation. we have not seen self cleaning functions on the ship, but they could exist.

So again What on the ship could be putting out the CO2 that fouled up the scrubbers?