Can I just point out in the arguement of the Ori weapon and the mountain, The beam was shot from space onto the planet, an extremely far distance and going through the planets atmosphere before it reached the planet, alot of the energy would've been lost because of this. In space however it wouldn't have these factors against it before it hit a hive. I just watched the clip against and I noticed the weapon actually acted different to how it has previously, almost like it was heating up the mountain before the explosion or travelling deep inside it or the planet before a visible effect. teal'c also said complete and utter destruction and dakaara is no more, does that mean the ori ship blew up the entire planet? If so then that's a very scarey thought for the wraith.
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Originally posted by kirmit View PostCan I just point out in the arguement of the Ori weapon and the mountain, The beam was shot from space onto the planet, an extremely far distance and going through the planets atmosphere before it reached the planet, alot of the energy would've been lost because of this. In space however it wouldn't have these factors against it before it hit a hive. I just watched the clip against and I noticed the weapon actually acted different to how it has previously, almost like it was heating up the mountain before the explosion or travelling deep inside it or the planet before a visible effect. teal'c also said complete and utter destruction and dakaara is no more, does that mean the ori ship blew up the entire planet? If so then that's a very scarey thought for the wraith.
It doesn't drill into the mountin either. If you watch the video of the scene you can actually see places on the mountain that get hit, then seem to not even be damaged at all after the beam subsides.
It's weird the way it blows up. It also seems like it wouldn't even have blown up at all had the Ori beam not hit the weapon itself as it was opening. That's when everything started to explode so it's even possible that it was the ancient weapon blowing up, and not the Ori beam at all, that caused the mountain to explode.
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Originally posted by PG15 View PostI'm not so sure of that. Directed beams focus their energy much better than an omni-directional blast from a nuke (believe me, I'm a Trekkie from the land of phasers). It's like comparing an arrow to a frying pan...or something.
The reason for that is the beam, when it hits, will superheat some of the rocks/dirt into gas/plasma and this will rapidly expand causing a large explosion and that will go in all directions. It won't be as powerful as a nuke of the same starting power as the beam but it will still by fairly nasty.
What's important here is that even the final explosion isn't very big. With that in mind, and the inefficiencies of beam weapon's you've pointed out, it obvious that the beam didn't pump singificnat amounts of energy into the mountain here because there's simply no accounting for such energy.
Nothing melts, nothing vaporises, there's no excessive collateral damage from the beam hitting in the area, explosive or otherwise, there's just a fairly modest explosion at the end that probably doesn't even completely destroy that little city at the foot of the mountain.
For example, the Ancient satellite cut right through a Hive, but most of the rest of the ship was virtually undamaged (until it blew up, of course).
If they were that weak, then you can't really explain how those beams go through entire Hataks, including their shields.
That only really leaves the Ha'tak hull which evidently isn't so hot when it comes to resisting a more focussed energy beam like the Ori one. The Goa'uld's own weapons seem to rely more on explosive or even kinetic effects so it's not to out there to think their armour might not be optimised to deal with something like the Ori weapon since it's not something they're accustomed to facing. There's also the possability that the Ori beam uses some sort of non-scientific StarTrek like Phaser wanktech. Where it disintegrates/destroys matter in some exotic way other than with simple direct energy transfer.
If that's the case it just needs to drill into a Ha'tak and hit some of the explody parts inside that make them blow up, just like an ancient drone which also uses some sort of disitegration and/or "phasing" wanktech to damage things.
Also to clairify when I said they were primarily anti shield weapons I didn't mean to suggest that they were completely useless against matter. They can damage matter to, just not to the extent that they seem to punch through shields. They're disproportionatly more effective on shields in other words.
Also, I wouldn't put all my money on that armor either. We know for a fact that drones can cut through them like nothing, and the unascended Ancients have other tech that allows them to do the same thing. And of course, not all of the Hive is armored (we can see exposed parts in No Man's Land, for example).
Drones fly through everything so it's not surprising the Wraith armour doesn't stop them very well either. Nothing seems to.
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Originally posted by Ouroboros View PostThe reason for that is the beam, when it hits, will superheat some of the rocks/dirt into gas/plasma and this will rapidly expand causing a large explosion and that will go in all directions. It won't be as powerful as a nuke of the same starting power as the beam but it will still by fairly nasty.
Of course, all this is moot to begin with, because you're still assuming that it's harder to destroy a Wraith than it is to destroy a mountain, when we have no evidence to support it. For instance, the Replicators are highly advanced, and RepliCarter makes it clear that they intend to destroy the weapon on Dakara ("Thanks to you, it will soon be no more."). So why don't they just hit it from orbit? Obviously, it must be harder than it sounds.
Nothing melts, nothing vaporises, there's no excessive collateral damage from the beam hitting in the area, explosive or otherwise, there's just a fairly modest explosion at the end that probably doesn't even completely destroy that little city at the foot of the mountain.
Yeah the satellite is definately the driling type of weapon. Very tightly focussed and aimed at penetration rather than explosive effects. It still created some explosive effects to though, even in space.
http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s1/1...l/102x464.html
Either the Wraith ships are fragile enough to blow up with C4, or there are weak points littered throughout. Again, you can't have it both ways. What we know is that John, with very little knowledge and very little time, managed to do extensive damage to the Wraith ship. There is no reason why an Ori beam couldn't do the same.
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here we go again...
Originally posted by Schrodinger82 View PostOf course, all this is moot to begin with, because you're still assuming that it's harder to destroy a Wraith than it is to destroy a mountain, when we have no evidence to support it. For instance, the Replicators are highly advanced, and RepliCarter makes it clear that they intend to destroy the weapon on Dakara ("Thanks to you, it will soon be no more."). So why don't they just hit it from orbit? Obviously, it must be harder than it sounds..
so firstly a hive ship is far bigger than the monument(which is what it actually is) on dakara which probably wasn't designed to withstand heavy attacks from orbit but still withstood at least half a dozen focued hits without exploding...
the hive ship by comparrassion is far larger and relies on armor solely for defense, so it's logical to assume that this armor would be advanced and able to withstand alot of stress...which it has been shown to do e.g nuke hit...
Yet when even less impressive examples occur in Sateda, where the hive blasts fail to even destroy a metal barrel that it hits head on, we're told that the same weapons are supposed to be in the multi-GT range.
the blasts you keep refering to from sateda were about the size of a puddle jumper, the blast i've shown above is bigger than the deadalus probably a thousand times larger than the one in sateda, are you saying that blast in excess of 700m long carries the same yield as an amram and the same energy as one about a thousandth of it's size?
oh and here's another picture of wraith blasts doing alot more damage...
here's some close up images of these blasts more comparable to a nuke than to an amram...
the blasts in sateda are comparable to dart shots and are within the established fire power ranges for darts, it's absurd to think that hive ships are armed with dart canons...
Did it? Or were those secondary explosions that came from all the completely unprotected, highly violatile system that you claim that John managed to find at least three of the first time he was walking on the Wraith ship with no prior experience with alien technology, back when time was crucial and ship destruction wasn't even a main priority?
http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s1/1...l/102x464.html
Either the Wraith ships are fragile enough to blow up with C4, or there are weak points littered throughout. Again, you can't have it both ways. What we know is that John, with very little knowledge and very little time, managed to do extensive damage to the Wraith ship. There is no reason why an Ori beam couldn't do the same.
we don't no where the C4 was placed all we can actually see is smoke, there aren't any massive craters in the ships the implie massive damage, if you let off explosives in a confined space there's going to be fires and damage and we're talking about internal explosions, and the ori beam would have to pierce the hull before it could cause such explosions...
remember in counter strike
Spoiler:cam and tealc thought that could actually destroy an ori ship with C4
the truth is if wraith weapons and armor are so weak they'd be far easier to destroy, heck fighers could cause serious damage and yet we don't see f-302's taking shots at the wraith hull, only at the exposed area's like hyperdrives...Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
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Originally posted by PG15 View PostMitch and Teal'c placed the C4 near (what they assumed to be) the power-core of the ship, therefore it'll obviously be the explosive force of the damaged powercore that's gonna destroy the ship, and not the C4 itself.Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
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Originally posted by Buba uognarf View PostOk, 'the mountain' if you can call it that, on dakara was very small it didn't have the size of a hive ship it was more like a mound of rock than a mountain...
the hive ship by comparrassion is far larger and relies on armor solely for defense, so it's logical to assume that this armor would be advanced and able to withstand alot of stress...
we have visual evidence of wraith weapons doing far more damage but if want to ignore that then here's a picture for you...
oh and here's another picture of wraith blasts doing alot more damage...
so the wraith ship was so badly damaged that it could get up and fly away and break orbit covered in tones of rock
we don't no where the C4 was placed all we can actually see is smoke, there aren't any massive craters in the ships the implie massive damage,
if you let off explosives in a confined space there's going to be fires and damage and we're talking about internal explosions, and the ori beam would have to pierce the hull before it could cause such explosions...
remember in counter strike
Spoiler:cam and tealc thought that could actually destroy an ori ship with C4
the truth is if wraith weapons and armor are so weak they'd be far easier to destroy, heck fighers could cause serious damage and yet we don't see f-302's taking shots at the wraith hull, only at the exposed area's like hyperdrives...
Further, the fact that John would target the most important system doesn't mean that the rest of the system isn't vulnerable too. That's like saying, "Osama Bin Laden had airplanes fly into the WTC on 9/11, because he knew thw that every other building in the country would be tough enough to withstand the attack!" No, Bin Laden had airplanes fly into WTC because it was a high priority target.
Originally posted by Buba uognarf View Postthats the whole point, we don't know where the C4 was placed, an internal explosion is an internal explosion we don't know what was affected by it, and it's an absurd statement to say C4 can cripple hive ships, when if well placed it could cripple an ori ship aswell...
But hey, that doesn't mean that the Ori couldn't hit these same systems as well.
P.S. Here's another picture of lightning from space. How many GT would you say this is?
http://www1.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/i...from-space.gifLast edited by TameFarrar; 29 October 2006, 12:38 AM.
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[QUOTE=Schrodinger82;5920131]Which could still be far enough away to dampen massive heating and expansion.[quote]
Sure. A multi megaton or gigaton nuke that explodes a few hundred meters away from the surface, or even less, is going to loose soooo much energy. Yes. Obviously.
Which would depend heavily distance. Also keep in mind that the part of the armor that heated up would move omnidirectionally, rather in a in a single direction away for the bomb.
Because you were wrong, your arguments were vague, unsubstantiated, circular, and directly contradicted by Sateda, the Siege, NML, and Fail Safe. {Snip}
My arguments were not wrong, nor vague, nor unsubstantiated, nor circular (I wonder how they could, since it's direct observation -> conclusion, size of the explosions = x amounts of energy; {snip}), and above, perfectly in line with rationalizations from other episodes.
Sateda? IF coming from a hiveship, they're just dialed down ( you {snip}claim that Sateda corresponds to the max yields?). Or they come from darts, and everybody's happy safe , as usual.
The Siege? Irrelevant.
No Man's Land? Irrelevant.
Fail Safe? Irrelevant, unless you want to argue that a naqahdah filled asteroid as any relevance to the observation of the size of fireballs occuring at the surface of a planet which is fired at.
Of course, it's easier to {snip} refuse rationalization and only go head to head and happily enjoy contradictions, nevermind if your explanation of Misbegotten {snip}.
{Snip}
What nuclear explosion? The beamed cleaved straight through the ship, cutting through all its armor in the process.
I was saying that the armour is able to withstand gigatons of energy, yet was pierced by a thick beam powered by, at best, a reactor that could eventually release a few tens of kilotons of energy. I said this shows that the ancient beam is more about an exotic mechanism than about raw energy transfer.
But there, you said that it proved the gigaton-level armour claim wrong, as a kiloton level beam could not destroy a gigaton level armour, so I was wrong in claiming some gigaton level armour.
Of course, this would stand if we were talking about pure energy direct transfer, which of course we're not.
If it had been the case, then the beam going through the ship's would have released its energy through the far less armoured inner structure and artificial atmosphere of the hive, which obviously is all you need to fuel a several kiloton nuclear type explosions (remember that nifty part about fireballs in atmosphere, 82), with all the blinding flashes and that.
Which did not happen, of course.
So we're not dealing with a mainly DET weapon, but with some kind of funny exotic crisp, and thus the argument against the gigaton level armour is null.
No, they just have the ability to penetrate through solid matter as though it weren't even there (including going in one end of a hive ship and out the other, and then going against for a second trip), and be mentally operated to attack specific targets. e.g., the types of targets that Jack O Neil would be aware of that would serve as weak points in the ships construction.
The purpose of the drones isn't that they're massively explosive, the purpose of the drones is that they completely ignore defense. Now, if you're saying that the Ori beams operate under the same principles as the drones, well, big plus to the Ori.
We've seen that two missiles with minor explosive yields is enough to crack up a Ha'tak when hitting sensible points. The theoretical deal is the same here.
Driller goes through and hit fragile parts ready to blow up at any minute.
The point is that the beam themselves are not particularily powerful in terms of DET, but that they just happened to hit sensible parts.
Remember, unshielded Ha'taks can be damaged by puny Al'keshes. It comes as no surprise that a Ha'tak could be pierced by weapons that don't even atomize mountains.
If an ori beam NDFes stuff away, then it's another deal.Last edited by TameFarrar; 29 October 2006, 12:42 AM.
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Originally posted by Schrodinger82 View PostBig deal. Unlike a hive ship, the Dakara mountain is almost entirely solid, where as the hive ship would be mostly hollow and contain highly violatile systems.
the fact remains the beam took multiple shots to pierce a few dozen metres of rock, hive armor is roughly as thick in places and probably harder...
Circular reasoning. "A lot" is a highly relative term.
Wow, so energy and charged matter spreads out and disperses and gets larger as it travels through empty space? In terms of sheer power, that proves, let's see... absolutely nothing. It's like pointing out the spread of a buckshot expands after it's been fired, and using it to argue that that the buckshot must be superpowerful.
and what makes you think energy blasts even do that atall?
the fact is we've seen many different sizes of wraith blast so your reasoning it expands in space is moot without evidence your making up a {snip}theory to escape the truth use actual show evidence next time...
remember siege III? the blasts from the hive ships don't change size as they leave the ship and reach atlantis...
assuming your {snip} theory is right you're saying the blast increase in size by 1000% is a mere illusion?
Wow, it looks comparable to the amount of damage that John managed to do with simple C4. Maybe because they hit the same systems that John supposedly did?
or maybe the wraith vital systems are stuck to the hull?
the fact is i have given you evidence just as valid as your sateda evidence showing higher wraith yields...
Wow, space ships are designed so that they can take external damage and still function in space, especially assuming that they have time to do repairs? Yes, shocking.
you're the one who keeps claiming that the C4 caused massive damage to the hive...
taking a page from your book when you responded to explosions visable from space in misbegotten...just cause you can see the explosions doesn't mean they're actually that big
Watch the episode, you can see the explosions yourself.
And why wouldn't it be able to do that?
Yes, because they had people with technical expertise on their ship, and prior experience with the technology. Sheppard and Ford did not.
the fact is unless you know where the explosives were placed your point carries no weight...
That's because the 302s have a finite number of missiles, which usually get intercepted by the darts. Flying in close enough to fire directly would put them in harm's way, since they would be outnumbered 50:1.
amrams fired at close range are far harder to intercept than nukes, and anyway it would only take afew dozen as seen in 'the hive'...
the fact is we've seen dart fire hitting hives in the same episode and it doesn't even damage the hive ship, and darts have shown firepower similar to whats been seen in sateda and amrans, are you saying that a hive ships arnaments consists of a couple dozen dart guns??
that still doesn't change the fact that a fleet of wraith ships can drain a planet destroying Z.P.M in days...
Further, the fact that John would target the most important system doesn't mean that the rest of the system isn't vulnerable too. That's like saying, "Osama Bin Laden had airplanes fly into the WTC on 9/11, because he knew thw that every other building in the country would be tough enough to withstand the attack!" No, Bin Laden had airplanes fly into WTC because it was a high priority target.
heck if that were true a couple of puddle jumps could demolish them!!!
so me an amram doing considerable damage to the hull of a hive ship and i'll believe you, i've already proved hive weapons are more powerful than that...
Right. So John managed to access and identify highly violatile, completely unguarded, unprotected, and unarmored systems. Completely off camera, becuase hey, no one wants to see that. Three times. All on his way to find his friends. On limited time. Without once getting captured.
But hey, that doesn't mean that the Ori couldn't hit these same systems as well.Last edited by TameFarrar; 29 October 2006, 12:45 AM.Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
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Originally posted by Mister Oragahn View PostSure. A multi megaton or gigaton nuke
My arguments were not wrong, nor vague, nor unsubstantiated, nor circular (I wonder how they could, since it's direct observation -> conclusion, size of the explosions = x amounts of energy;
http://www1.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/i...from-space.gif
Hey look everyone, multi-gigaton explosions taking place all over the globe in both pictures! The "direct observation" says so.
Oh wait, the hive blasts are different, you say. How do we know they're different? Because they're multi-gt, where as the lightning bolts are not. Since hive blasts are multi-gt while the lightning bolts are not, they couldn't possible be operating under similar principles.
Clearly, this isn't circular at all.
The Siege? Irrelevant.
No Man's Land? Irrelevant.
Fail Safe? Irrelevant,
That makes perfect sense. Far more sense than say, "Hey, I have comparable pictures of lightning doing the same thing, so maybe hive blasts are visible for the same reason?"
{snip}
I was saying that the armour is able to withstand gigatons of energy, yet was pierced by a thick beam powered by, at best, a reactor that could eventually release a few tens of kilotons of energy. I said this shows that the ancient beam is more about an exotic mechanism than about raw energy transfer.
"The hive armor must be able to withstand multi-gt because they can withstand hive blasts, and the hive blasts must be multi-gt in order to hurt the hive armor." The problem being that you can substitute any value in place of "multi-gt", and it would make just as much sense.
At which point, you fall back on independent evidence of how strong the hive blasts and hive armor are. e.g., Rising, Sateda, NML, and the Siege. Maybe a naquadah reactor was able to harm a hive ship, because that's all you need. No exotic principles required.
If it had been the case, then the beam going through the ship's would have released its energy through the far less armoured inner structure and artificial atmosphere of the hive, which obviously is all you need to fuel a several kiloton nuclear type explosions (remember that nifty part about fireballs in atmosphere, 82), with all the blinding flashes and that.
Of course, I do not claim they're the same. {Snip} My point is that Ori beams drill through matter, and of course, with ships, they're ought to hit sensible parts.
We've seen that two missiles with minor explosive yields is enough to crack up a Ha'tak when hitting sensible points. The theoretical deal is the same here.
It comes as no surprise that a Ha'tak could be pierced by weapons that don't even atomize mountains.
If an ori beam NDFes stuff away, then it's another deal.Last edited by TameFarrar; 29 October 2006, 12:48 AM.
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Originally posted by Buba uognarf View Postthe beam still has to pierce the armor which i expect would be harder than rock...
the fact remains the beam took multiple shots to pierce a few dozen metres of rock, hive armor is roughly as thick in places and probably harder...
the fact remains it withstood a nuke hit (whether it was naquadah enhanced or not is debatable) and still owned the deadalus, only the secondary explosions in the dart bays brought it to a draw...
stop making this up with no evidence, the blast doesn't expand as it leaves the hive ship...
remember siege III? the blasts from the hive ships don't change size as they leave the ship and reach atlantis...
utter rubbish seeing as the C4 was inside the ship
{snip}...so all 3 dozen hits hit the same vital systems more than once???
internal explosions actually there's a huge difference...what makes you so sure the C4 wasn't next to outside of the ship...
taking a page from your book when you responded to explosions visable from space in misbegotten...just cause you can see the explosions doesn't mean they're actually that big
ok what prior experience did they have i doubt vala and daniel had a tour while they were on board and they didn't tell them where to put the explosives...
{snip}the fact is that f-302's have the maneuverablity to get in close enough to fire we saw that in No Mans Land...
the fact is we've seen dart fire hitting hives in the same episode and it doesn't even damage the hive ship, and darts have shown firepower similar to whats been seen in sateda and amrans, are you saying that a hive ships arnaments consists of a couple dozen dart guns??
that still doesn't change the fact that a fleet of wraith ships can drain a planet destroying Z.P.M in days...Last edited by TameFarrar; 29 October 2006, 12:50 AM.
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Originally posted by Schrodinger82 View PostNo evidence of this, circular reasoning. Try again.
Point me to a nuke fired by the Daedalus that's clearly been way below the megaton range and you may have a point, or even one that's capable to release a near 2 km fireball in vacuum.
http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s3/3...otten0580.html
http://www1.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/i...from-space.gif
Hey look everyone, multi-gigaton explosions taking place all over the globe in both pictures! The "direct observation" says so.
Oh wait, the hive blasts are different, you say. How do we know they're different? Because they're multi-gt, where as the lightning bolts are not. Since hive blasts are multi-gt while the lightning bolts are not, they couldn't possible be operating under similar principles.
Clearly, this isn't circular at all.
Oh. Wait. We did, but you conveniently dismissed it in the last thread.
If it was only that, but the overall cloud density within a several hundreds kilometers radius is strikingly dissimilar when we look at your storm picture and at Misbegotten's grab.
Oh, nevermind, since it's perfectly valid to assume that it's all about a storm, and all about clouds, ain't it?
In the Siege, 6 GT level nukes are supposed to be the main line of defense. The Wraith apparently see them as enough of a threat to take them out with asteroids, 100 of which are apparently enough to blow up every single nuke (implying that they have quite a large proximatey.). But we're supposed to believe that each individual hive blast is more powerful than al these nukes combined, and that even a severely damaged hive ship can withstand hundreds of them.
Not to say that at that time, the terrans had really no real idea as to how much energy was necessary to shoot down a hiveship from the outside.
So you're making up stuff, again.
As for the rest, we can see that you have nothing worth it to add to your defense regarding the complete irrelevance of those references you made.
That's a gentle concession that a I finely accept.
There actions from "The Siege" diasgrees with you. Actually, everything does. Except for your own circular reasoning.
"The hive armor must be able to withstand multi-gt because they can withstand hive blasts, and the hive blasts must be multi-gt in order to hurt the hive armor."
The problem being that you can substitute any value in place of "multi-gt", and it would make just as much sense.
The real reasoning... you know it, but you're feeling fine with swinging strawmen in spades.
At which point, you fall back on independent evidence of how strong the hive blasts and hive armor are. e.g., Rising, Sateda, NML, and the Siege. Maybe a naquadah reactor was able to harm a hive ship, because that's all you need. No exotic principles required.
Not even counting the gravity here.
Right, because that's exactly how nuclear explosions are caused, too.
{snip}
Remember in Ethon, how the satellite punched a hole clean through the prometheus, and how it triggered a nuclear explosion as a result? Because that's what happened. {snip}
Please. The final explosion occured years after the final beam hit the ship.
{snip}
Which are apparently highly plentiful and accessible on Wraith ships. See: Rising.
Plus ori beams obviously have certain limits, since only one of them is not enough to overwhelm asgard shields.
One would wonder what that limit in power would mean anything against armor like the Wraith's one, if there was a link between the beam mechanics and its effects on matter.
Yes, after being controlled by Jack O Neill, who had previous access to Ha'tak blueprints and knew the absolute best points to hit.
It's even possible that drones can reach for the point which seems to emit the most energy.
After all, Jack already had access to those blueprints since the first seasons of SG-1, yet he didn't limit himself to two drones per Ha'tak in Lost City.
{snip}.
In the end, it does not change the fact that the puny missiles hit sensible parts, and the end result was the total destruction of the Ha'tak, pretty much the way the Ori beat them up.
Looking at the sheer size of an ori beam in comparison to a Ha'tak, it's more ought to touch one of those sensible parts when making its way through the superstructure, without even having to aim at anything in particular.
Now, notice how, in No Man's Land, an entire drone wave passing through a hiveship wasn't enough to blow it up in just once swipe, but actually had to return inside to actually effectively damage it, despite the fact that all scientists from the expedition team, including Zelenka, previously had neat access to complete hiveship blueprints. Nevermind if those plans were erased, because they still saw them, and it's quite easy to vaguely remember where things such as where giant reactors are, for example.
Right, because atomizing mountains is just so easy, too!Last edited by TameFarrar; 29 October 2006, 12:54 AM.
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