Megathread - Versus battles

[mickhhh]

Sorry but we'd be crushed. Enough Earth fanwank already I don't understand how you can actually believe the 'Allied' fleet stands a chance.

It was stated numerous times throughout season 5 that even a single Wraith civil war fraction would be a serious adversary. Thats a single fraction of their entire fleet, now imagine that fraction multiplied 4 fold there's no way we could match them.

3 Hives > 304

The beam weapons have never demonstrated greater ranges than Wraith pulses and certainly have never taken advantage of any supposed advantage.

The Odyssesy would pose a problem, but the other 4 304's would be overwhelmed shiftly, it took less than a minute and a half for the Phoenix to be virtually crippled in 'The Last Man' I imagine with even greater numbers of Wraith ships the standard 304's would go down just as quickly.

The Traveller ships never came across as more formidable that Wraith Cruisers and the Cruisers posses a numerical advantage + Darts so the Travellers get owned hard.

The Odyssesy is then handed its ass by the collective Wraith fleet and the Wraith go on to rule Pegasus for another 10,000 years.

Now that atlantis is on earth it does not need the 3 ZPMs so we could take 2 of those and the 1 that was powering earths defence. If we give them to our 304s we would have 4 ZPM powered ships. Which would be a very big threat.

I dont mean the beam weapons have a bigger rang than the wraith weapons but not all the wraith ships would arrive in rang at the same time. we would stant a chance if we could destory them as they came in to rang that way we wont come underfire from all the wraith ships at the same time. but when u think about it we shoud be able to destory hive ships b4 they can hit us because they will find it hard to dodge our beams weapons at a big distance but it should not be to hard for us.

[Buba uognarf]

Now that atlantis is on earth it does not need the 3 ZPMs so we could take 2 of those and the 1 that was powering earths defence. If we give them to our 304s we would have 4 ZPM powered ships. Which would be a very big threat.

I dont mean the beam weapons have a bigger rang than the wraith weapons but not all the wraith ships would arrive in rang at the same time. we would stant a chance if we could destory them as they came in to rang that way we wont come underfire from all the wraith ships at the same time. but when u think about it we shoud be able to destory hive ships b4 they can hit us because they will find it hard to dodge our beams weapons at a big distance but it should not be to hard for us.

We'd have 3 ZPM powered 304's which would be a big problem but then again the Wraith would outnumber those 304's over 10:1 in just Hive ships. IMO it would probably be closer to 20:1 in just Hive ships throw in the Cruisers and it quickly becomes apparent that the Wraith numerical advantage is so vast that adding some ZPMs is unlikely to make a difference beyond allowing the Allies to inflict heavier losses before they're crushed.

There is no way for the Allies to win this battle.

[Galactic Hitchhiker]

We'd have 3 ZPM powered 304's which would be a big problem but then again the Wraith would outnumber those 304's over 10:1 in just Hive ships. IMO it would probably be closer to 20:1 in just Hive ships throw in the Cruisers and it quickly becomes apparent that the Wraith numerical advantage is so vast that adding some ZPMs is unlikely to make a difference beyond allowing the Allies to inflict heavier losses before they're crushed.

There is no way for the Allies to win this battle.

Tell that to the Russians. Remember what happened when they tried to invade Finland.. And tactics wise, Wraith aren't any better than what the Russians were back in 1939-1945..

[Stewart5]

This isnt a situation where grit and determination can win. 20:1 at the same time = earth loss. And the wraith have displayed great tactics on occasion.

[mickhhh]

We'd have 3 ZPM powered 304's which would be a big problem but then again the Wraith would outnumber those 304's over 10:1 in just Hive ships. IMO it would probably be closer to 20:1 in just Hive ships throw in the Cruisers and it quickly becomes apparent that the Wraith numerical advantage is so vast that adding some ZPMs is unlikely to make a difference beyond allowing the Allies to inflict heavier losses before they're crushed.

There is no way for the Allies to win this battle.

actually we could have 4 ZMP powered ships and 1 asgard core powered ship.
like I said if we can destory them as quick as they come into rang we wont have to take on them all a the same time. as 4 the cruisers the travels should be able to take care of most of them.
plus if we are bout to lose, the oddy could always turn the time field on and disconent the ZPM and rig it to explode and then turn off the time field, then beam the ZPM bomb in to space and run. by by wraith fleet.

[Stewart5]

Fan. Wank. Fan. Wank. And why would the Tauri, who you imbue with such great tactical ability, get themselves into a situation where they had to use that tactic?

[Buba uognarf]

actually we could have 4 ZMP powered ships and 1 asgard core powered ship.
like I said if we can destory them as quick as they come into rang we wont have to take on them all a the same time. as 4 the cruisers the travels should be able to take care of most of them.
plus if we are bout to lose, the oddy could always turn the time field on and disconent the ZPM and rig it to explode and then turn off the time field, then beam the ZPM bomb in to space and run. by by wraith fleet.

The Asgard Core has never been stated to be ZPM comparable the fact it only powers the Computer core and leaves the ZPM to power the rest of the ship implies that it would be of no benefit to the ships power supply to have Asgard power core sharing the load.

So the Odyssesy still needs its ZPM meaning we have 3 ZPM powered ships. Why should we have the advantage of firing first? You're changing the conditions of the battle to an ambush, not that it makes a difference the Wraith still whoop us with over 20:1 odds, if we include Cruisers it may well be closer to 50:1!!!!!!

So 15 Traveller ships vs 100's of Cruisers? I have serious doubts about Traveller ships being able to handle Wraith Cruisers 1 on 1 let alone when facing serious superior numbers of Cruisers.

If the Odyssesy turns on the TDF and blows up the ZPM it is a draw as our other ships would be trapped and the Odyssesy probably wouldn't be able to escape with its power source.

So basically its a loss for the Allies. Without a doubt.

[mickhhh]

The Asgard Core has never been stated to be ZPM comparable the fact it only powers the Computer core and leaves the ZPM to power the rest of the ship implies that it would be of no benefit to the ships power supply to have Asgard power core sharing the load.

So the Odyssesy still needs its ZPM meaning we have 3 ZPM powered ships. Why should we have the advantage of firing first? You're changing the conditions of the battle to an ambush, not that it makes a difference the Wraith still whoop us with over 20:1 odds, if we include Cruisers it may well be closer to 50:1!!!!!!

So 15 Traveller ships vs 100's of Cruisers? I have serious doubts about Traveller ships being able to handle Wraith Cruisers 1 on 1 let alone when facing serious superior numbers of Cruisers.

If the Odyssesy turns on the TDF and blows up the ZPM it is a draw as our other ships would be trapped and the Odyssesy probably wouldn't be able to escape with its power source.

So basically its a loss for the Allies. Without a doubt.

The fact that the asgard said the energy core was there so the the asgard computer did not drain the ZMP must mean that the asgard energy core is some were never the ZPMs level. It should not be 2 hard 2 run some of the ships systems off it.
Even if the oddy did keep its ZPM there would still be 4 ZPM powered ships (we could get 2 ZPMs from atlantis and the 1 earth was using) and 1 normal 304.

I am not changing the conditions. The reason we could fire first is because from a long distance we could dodge there shots at a rang they could not dodge ours. Also if we destroy there front ships first we will not come under fire from all there ships at the same time.

Plus who says there are 100 cruisers. We seem to come into contact with more hives than cruisers. So there are probly less cruisers than hives. Theres no way to be sure but the travellers ships seem to be more than match off wraith cruisers. Every time we have seen them fight they have done very well.

[Stewart5]

Faulty logic. Your assuming because the SGA team have come across the odd Hive without escorts that there must be more hive,s but every time there have been Cruisers there has been a 4:1 ratio. It's easier and quicker to make smaller ships, so why not have a heap to run interference for the big buggers.
You cannot dodge that much wraith firepower. Say conservatively there are only 35 Hives left in the Wraith fleet after all the oens we've seen destroyed. Including the sheer wave of Darts and the attending escorts, YOU CANNOT DODGE A FIELD OF FIRE THAT BIG!!!!!!!!!

[Buba uognarf]

The fact that the asgard said the energy core was there so the the asgard computer did not drain the ZMP must mean that the asgard energy core is some were never the ZPMs level. It should not be 2 hard 2 run some of the ships systems off it.
Even if the oddy did keep its ZPM there would still be 4 ZPM powered ships (we could get 2 ZPMs from atlantis and the 1 earth was using) and 1 normal 304.

Why must it mean the Asgard core is near ZPM levels? You're reading into the statement far too much, all we know is the ZPM powers the ship, the Asgard power core has its own powersource. It was a for your information statement, I have no doubt the Asgard power core is powerful but does it contain enough energy to atomize a planet? Doubt it.

If the one the Earth was using is salvagable we don't know if it was at area 51 when the dart hit.

I am not changing the conditions. The reason we could fire first is because from a long distance we could dodge there shots at a rang they could not dodge ours. Also if we destroy there front ships first we will not come under fire from all there ships at the same time.

We've never fought at a long distance before. We'd be surrounded and destroyed.

Plus who says there are 100 cruisers. We seem to come into contact with more hives than cruisers. So there are probly less cruisers than hives. Theres no way to be sure but the travellers ships seem to be more than match off wraith cruisers. Every time we have seen them fight they have done very well.

Actually we've seen far more Cruisers than Hives, 9 in the first wave of the Siege, 20-30 more in the second wave plus probably 10 more on the odd encounter possibly more. It seems likely that there are far more Cruisers than Hives.

Even so you fail to address the fact that Sheppard someone far more in the know then you feels a single Wraith civil war fraction would be serious adversary. The whole collective Wraith fleet would steamroll us.

[mickhhh]

Faulty logic. Your assuming because the SGA team have come across the odd Hive without escorts that there must be more hive,s but every time there have been Cruisers there has been a 4:1 ratio. It's easier and quicker to make smaller ships, so why not have a heap to run interference for the big buggers.
You cannot dodge that much wraith firepower. Say conservatively there are only 35 Hives left in the Wraith fleet after all the oens we've seen destroyed. Including the sheer wave of Darts and the attending escorts, YOU CANNOT DODGE A FIELD OF FIRE THAT BIG!!!!!!!!!

first of all its not 4:1. it was more like 2:1. we dont have to dodge it all, just the bulk

[mickhhh]

Why must it mean the Asgard core is near ZPM levels? You're reading into the statement far too much, all we know is the ZPM powers the ship, the Asgard power core has its own powersource. It was a for your information statement, I have no doubt the Asgard power core is powerful but does it contain enough energy to atomize a planet? Doubt it..

it was said the asgard core would drain the ZPM so the fact the asgard energy core can run the asgard core and power some of the oddy systems for over 50 years seems to suggest that the core is as powerful as a ZPM. Any way it does not need to be as powerful as a ZPM it would only need to be powerful enough to fully power a 304. It probly only takes a faction of a ZPM to power a 304

If the one the Earth was using is salvagable we don't know if it was at area 51 when the dart hit.

Ok then this ZPM is a maybe. We don’t really no if it was destroyed or not

We've never fought at a long distance before. We'd be surrounded and destroyed.

We would not be surrounded if we did not led them surround us. If the battle was just a standard battle, so both fleets would meet head on then my tactic could work. If we meet the wraith fleet like this we would meet some ships before others and if we can destroy them fast enough we would take on there fleet part by part

Actually we've seen far more Cruisers than Hives, 9 in the first wave of the Siege, 20-30 more in the second wave plus probably 10 more on the odd encounter possibly more. It seems likely that there are far more Cruisers than Hives.

If there were 3 times as many cruiser we would see more of them.

Even so you fail to address the fact that Sheppard someone far more in the know then you feels a single Wraith civil war fraction would be serious adversary. The whole collective Wraith fleet would steamroll us.

Sheppard never thought he would be able to get this kind of fire power

On AOT the oddy lasts minuets against 4 ori ships if there shields were as power as that we would have a while to destroy them before they could take our shield down.

[Ouroboros]

Faulty logic. Your assuming because the SGA team have come across the odd Hive without escorts that there must be more hive,s but every time there have been Cruisers there has been a 4:1 ratio. It's easier and quicker to make smaller ships, so why not have a heap to run interference for the big buggers.
You cannot dodge that much wraith firepower. Say conservatively there are only 35 Hives left in the Wraith fleet after all the oens we've seen destroyed. Including the sheer wave of Darts and the attending escorts, YOU CANNOT DODGE A FIELD OF FIRE THAT BIG!!!!!!!!!

Hell if it came right down to it the Wraith could just suicide a near empty hive or cruiser into each of Earth's uber ships. Their reactor's cooking off release enough energy to vaporise the entire 11km mass of the ship, and even a fraction of that energy that escapes can still 1 shot another hive nearby.

Suicide tactics like that are right in their playbook to. Sacrifice a few drone crewed ships in exchange for billions of humans to feed on.

[Buba uognarf]

it was said the asgard core would drain the ZPM so the fact the asgard energy core can run the asgard core and power some of the oddy systems for over 50 years seems to suggest that the core is as powerful as a ZPM. Any way it does not need to be as powerful as a ZPM it would only need to be powerful enough to fully power a 304. It probly only takes a faction of a ZPM to power a 304

It was stated that core would not draw power from the ZPM, Thor was giving information on the new systems he was simply telling Carter that the Core had its own powersource. It was never hinted to be near ZPM level.

Its all speculation, lets leave the Odyssesy ZPM powered and not put ifs and buts about the APC into the debate.

We would not be surrounded if we did not led them surround us. If the battle was just a standard battle, so both fleets would meet head on then my tactic could work. If we meet the wraith fleet like this we would meet some ships before others and if we can destroy them fast enough we would take on there fleet part by part

If we're running around trying to avoid their ships (the Wraith have shown the smarts to flank enemies before) we won't be able to get in as many beam weapon hits.

If there were 3 times as many cruiser we would see more of them.

Why would we? We don't intentially look for Wraith ships and the galaxy is a big place. We've seen probably at least twice as many Wraith Cruisers as Hives, factor in the fact that we've seen them quite often when actively avoiding the Wraith and it seems likely that there are far more Cruisers than Hives. We see them enough just roaming the galaxy hear and there I assume there would be even more around the larger fleets of Hives we know exist.

Sheppard never thought he would be able to get this kind of fire power

On AOT the oddy lasts minuets against 4 ori ships if there shields were as power as that we would have a while to destroy them before they could take our shield down.

Sheppard knows more about the state of pegasus than you or I, having a couple more ZPM powered ships will not offset the sheer numbers the collective Wraith have.

In Unending the Odysesy was heavily weakened after a few shots of the Ori main weapons, the Replicators were also on the Odyssesy in AOT and the ship wasn't moving or shooting there are too many unknowns to claim thats standard shield power.

Enough ludacris Earth fanwank please, Ouroboros has a point too its not above the Wraith to use suicide tactics the Earth fleet wouldn't survive.

[mickhhh]

It was stated that core would not draw power from the ZPM, Thor was giving information on the new systems he was simply telling Carter that the Core had its own powersource. It was never hinted to be near ZPM level.

Its all speculation, lets leave the Odyssesy ZPM powered and not put ifs and buts about the APC into the debate.




If we're running around trying to avoid their ships (the Wraith have shown the smarts to flank enemies before) we won't be able to get in as many beam weapon hits.



Why would we? We don't intentially look for Wraith ships and the galaxy is a big place. We've seen probably at least twice as many Wraith Cruisers as Hives, factor in the fact that we've seen them quite often when actively avoiding the Wraith and it seems likely that there are far more Cruisers than Hives. We see them enough just roaming the galaxy hear and there I assume there would be even more around the larger fleets of Hives we know exist.



Sheppard knows more about the state of pegasus than you or I, having a couple more ZPM powered ships will not offset the sheer numbers the collective Wraith have.

In Unending the Odysesy was heavily weakened after a few shots of the Ori main weapons, the Replicators were also on the Odyssesy in AOT and the ship wasn't moving or shooting there are too many unknowns to claim thats standard shield power.

Enough ludacris Earth fanwank please, Ouroboros has a point too its not above the Wraith to use suicide tactics the Earth fleet wouldn't survive.

We could go on forever like this. I think it would be best to just agree to disargee.

if we were going to go all out to try and destroy the wraith maybe a better way to do it would be to get our ships together and keeping hiting smaller groups of hives. then when they get there fleet together we could sent the oddy to meet them and it could go out of phase then beam a ZPM bomb into space and then put it back into normal space and detonate it. then the wraith would be a much smaller problem