Megathread - Versus battles

[ianjones1246]

As far as I'm aware the 303 is quite a bit smaller than a 304, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if the 304 has a lot more hull plating/armor than the 303 does.
By the time Earth built the Daedalus they had been in more close contact with the Asgard, Prometheus was if I recall correctly built entirely from pre-Asgard knowledge (as in before they started to even discuss the idea of giving us their hyperdrives and shields), so wouldn't necessarily have a fraction of the hull strength of a 304, which was built two years later and had an Asgard hyperdrive from the get go so I'd bet their knowledge on hull/material construction was provided too as it wasn't anything offensive.

Like I've said above it's also possible that the Asgard helped with the construction and materials of the 304s hulls and they could be a lot thicker, so Death Gliders may not do hardly any damage to a 304s hull, especially if the Asgard taught us better ways of refining Trinium, mixing with other metals, I'm not sure if it's accurate or not but I've heard it said by someone on Gateworld that the 304's hull is a Titanium-Trinium alloy so it is possible that a 304's hull is many times stronger than the Prometheus's was.

You can't really draw the conclusion that a 303 and 304 have remotely the same level of hull strength.
Earth had advanced quite a bit by the end of season 8 of SG1 (I say this coz this is when Daedalus was nearing completion and it's not certain when construction began on it), they had gained some intergalactic hyperdrive tech, been using materials like Trinium and potentially making alloys with it, they were in closer contact with the Asgard by this point so could quite easily have improved the hulls of their ships by many times with assistance, which could explain why the Daedalus was even able to take a pounding from those Wraith blasts with it's shields down.
IMO with all of this taken into consideration I highly doubt Death Glider fire is anywhere near as powerful as a Hive's.

Hives can take Nukes like this: http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/dis...um=292&pos=675 hit directly on them and keep on going, I don’t recall anything as powerful as a Stargate nuke being mentioned to exist on BSG.
Remember also that Hives are 11km long so that blast is a good few kms in diameter.

If a Hive can take something like the Daedalus’s nuke and then shrug it off to continue fighting, then another two blast each other to pieces, well one breaks through the other's armor in only a few volleys causing that massive internal explosion in The Hive, how would a Battlestar be able to take the same?
That doesn’t sound right to me.
A Hive's weapons would have to be a fraction, like a 30th or something the power of Daedalus's nuke (estimating ) per shot maybe more.
Remember a 304 may have a hull many times stronger than the Prometheus.

IMO BSG weaponry just isn’t on the level of something like a Hive’s weaponry and a Hive’s armor could probably take Galactica’s nukes and cannon fire for days.

The speculation about Prometheus and the X304's armour is just that.... speculation. Remember Prometheus only really finished construction in series 6 - Deadalus arrived at Atlantis fully combat operational at the end of season 8.

Thats less than a 2 year gap to design and completely build a new class of warship. Thats a remarkable achievement in itself. When the Deadalus is first introduced, Mkay mentions the basic differences between Deadalus and Prometheus... basically that all the "add on's" on Prometheus are integrated into Deadalus's design. Realistically (since we are talking about the USA in this modern earth, just with a bit of alien tech) it would be near impossible to build a completely new class of warship in 2 years - let alone redesign the ship from scratch.

You d be talking about changing the manufacturing lines, suppliers etc... - and if your using a different material for the hull, this would almost certainly mean new construction techniques, and a host of other supply chains established just to refine the materials - and god knows what else to build a ship of the scale of Deadalus and Prometheus.

Going off this, its fair to say that realistically, as far as we know - the Deadalus isn't too far removed to Prometheus. Its external view is different - but as Mkay says in the siege part 3... Deadalus's biggest difference is its integration of alien tech. This means large components of the ship are likely similar/ the same design to Prometheus - simply to prevent time delay and massive cost increases which would come with redesigning the ship, and especially with redesigning and changing a fundamental feature such as the hull. If in the case of Earth, you need everyship you can get and more - you ll want to keep the construction of the vessels as similar and streamlined as possible.

Deadalus may have a different hull to Prometheus... but there has been nothing said to support it in the show. Its a fair bet given the huge cost and time delay, plus considering we don't even know for sure if the Asgard gave superior/ new hull designs (or whether Prometheus wasn't already kitted out with Asgard hull modifications for that matter... since it did always end up back in dry dock being repaired a lot! i.e. chance to modify the hull) - that the Deadalus and Prometheus's hull are almost certainly made of the same materials, just integrating better construction techniques and designs which have been learnt from the experience of building Prometheus. Logistically changing a fundamental component on a class of ship such as Prometheus would be one huge logistical nightmare which would delay things a lot - which at the end of the day, with Earth pumping out ships as fast as it possibly can.. is something which would almost certainly be avoided.

Consequently.... the comparison between Death Glider fire vs. Prometheus Hull and Wraith Hive Fire vs. Deadalus's hull can't be disproved

I think we ll have to agree to disagree on this to be honest - there is too much inconsistency in the stargate universe to make a reasonable thought out line of thinking i.e. a primitive Geni Nuke vapourises a Wraith Hive, yet a Earth Nuke fails to?

But... one thing i will say - if a race of Humans with earths technology capabilities when the Atlantis expedition was launched (season 8) could survive against the Wraith, and eventually defeat them - then at the time Colonial technology i would have said in pretty much every area was superior to Earths (we only had prometheus... which generally i d class as more of a failure than a success!) .... but if Earth could have eventually beaten the Wraith, and held them off with a handful of personal, and the odd ship... then i reckon the colonials could have done so - PROVIDED they did what Earth did... and fought the Wraith in Pegasus i.e. in a different galaxy to their homeworlds.

Realistically, much as if the Wraith find their way to Earth in full strength (even with the Asgard Legacy) Earth wouldn't stand a chance, i ll probably say that should the Wraith have ever made it to the 12 colonies, the colonial fleet would have been overrun by sheer weight of numbers.... so pretty much like the Ancients themselves were, and what Earth would be if it wasn't for the distance between Milky Way and Pegasus.

If there's one thing the Wraith have going for them - its not so much the technological capabilities of their ships, but the massive availability of medium (not necessarily high tech) technological ships - which in enough numbers can lay waste to even the most advanced warship.

Before the Wraith civil war... they were probably the single powerfullest race ever on SGuniverse.. and potentially still are. lol

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

The speculation about Prometheus and the X304's armour is just that.... speculation. Remember Prometheus only really finished construction in series 6 - Deadalus arrived at Atlantis fully combat operational at the end of season 8.

Well you speculated that the two designs had roughly the same armor strength, I speculated that they were potentially massively different, which is very likely given how much different and larger than the Prometheus the Daedalus/304s are.
Prometheus was finished (well it was operational) in mid season 6, Daedalus was either finished or not quite finished at the season finally of season 8.
SG1 had to get the ZPM in Mobeus so Daedalus hadn't left until after that episode.

Thats less than a 2 year gap to design and completely build a new class of warship. Thats a remarkable achievement in itself. When the Deadalus is first introduced, Mkay mentions the basic differences between Deadalus and Prometheus... basically that all the "add on's" on Prometheus are integrated into Deadalus's design. Realistically (since we are talking about the USA in this modern earth, just with a bit of alien tech) it would be near impossible to build a completely new class of warship in 2 years - let alone redesign the ship from scratch.

Actually it's probably more than two years to design and build Daedalus, it wasn't launched until after Mobeus and Prometheus was almost finished in mid-season 6.
BTW we're not talking about the real world, it is sci-fi/fantasy, but Daedalus is a completely new design of ship, the only things IMO that make it look a bit like the Prometheus is the fact that it has a similar profile and it's a similar looking color.

You d be talking about changing the manufacturing lines, suppliers etc... - and if your using a different material for the hull, this would almost certainly mean new construction techniques, and a host of other supply chains established just to refine the materials - and god knows what else to build a ship of the scale of Deadalus and Prometheus.

Well between finishing the Daedalus and making the next 304 the Air Force found the time to add extra space to it's production facilities for another ship, I don't see how they wouldn't have been able to tweak a few parts of the construction and assembly process to accommodate newer and better materials that could potentially save the lives of the crew of Daedalus when it was being built.

Going off this, its fair to say that realistically, as far as we know - the Deadalus isn't too far removed to Prometheus. Its external view is different - but as Mkay says in the siege part 3... Deadalus's biggest difference is its integration of alien tech. This means large components of the ship are likely similar/ the same design to Prometheus - simply to prevent time delay and massive cost increases which would come with redesigning the ship, and especially with redesigning and changing a fundamental feature such as the hull. If in the case of Earth, you need everyship you can get and more - you ll want to keep the construction of the vessels as similar and streamlined as possible.

It is Stargate and Daedalus is a completely new design of ship compared to the Prometheus, which has been seen, it looks much more solid, if the Air Force wanted to make sure this new ship would actually survive then they'd build it to do just that.
Honestly do you think they wouldn't have learned from getting pounded on by a few Death Gliders, whatever else and not bothered to improve a fundamental feature like the hull to actually survive those attacks much better in the future?

Deadalus may have a different hull to Prometheus... but there has been nothing said to support it in the show. Its a fair bet given the huge cost and time delay, plus considering we don't even know for sure if the Asgard gave superior/ new hull designs (or whether Prometheus wasn't already kitted out with Asgard hull modifications for that matter... since it did always end up back in dry dock being repaired a lot! i.e. chance to modify the hull) - that the Deadalus and Prometheus's hull are almost certainly made of the same materials, just integrating better construction techniques and designs which have been learnt from the experience of building Prometheus. Logistically changing a fundamental component on a class of ship such as Prometheus would be one huge logistical nightmare which would delay things a lot - which at the end of the day, with Earth pumping out ships as fast as it possibly can.. is something which would almost certainly be avoided.

Consequently.... the comparison between Death Glider fire vs. Prometheus Hull and Wraith Hive Fire vs. Deadalus's hull can't be disproved

The thing is Daedalus is a completely different ship, why even bother to go to the lengths of building something completely new without making fundamental improvements to things like the materials and adding extra layers of plating.

IMO you've actually failed to prove that Death Glider fire is as strong as a Hives weapons, you've not even bothered to tackle the issue of a Hive getting hit by the Daedalus's nuke in No Man's Land and surviving, yet two others blasting each other to pieces in a very short space of time in the episode the Hive.
Would you actually say, in all seriousness that Death Glider can do something with it's shots that can't even happen against Ha'Taks, even Alkesh which are stronger than Gliders can't tear apart a Ha'Tak on it's own which is a fraction of the size of a Hive.
In saying that Glider shots are the same or close to being the same in damaging power to a Hive's you're actually saying a Death Glider can kill a Hive in the same number of shots, when the blasts would be about the same size as a Darts and they can't really touch Hives unless a massive swarm, hits one for ages.

I think we ll have to agree to disagree on this to be honest - there is too much inconsistency in the stargate universe to make a reasonable thought out line of thinking i.e. a primitive Geni Nuke vapourises a Wraith Hive, yet a Earth Nuke fails to?

Of course believe what you want to believe about shots thing, my points above are just what I think about it.

BTW the Genii Nuke was detonated inside of the Hive's Dart Bay, so it bypassed the armor, didn't have to deal with that and I believe caused a bunch of major secondary explosions which caused the Hive in The Siege Part 3 to blow up, the No Man's Land one hit outside as in had to damage the armor to harm the Hive, so IMO it's not really an inconsistency, just two different weapons being detonated in completely different places on Hives.

But... one thing i will say - if a race of Humans with earths technology capabilities when the Atlantis expedition was launched (season 8) could survive against the Wraith, and eventually defeat them - then at the time Colonial technology i would have said in pretty much every area was superior to Earths (we only had prometheus... which generally i d class as more of a failure than a success!) .... but if Earth could have eventually beaten the Wraith, and held them off with a handful of personal, and the odd ship... then i reckon the colonials could have done so - PROVIDED they did what Earth did... and fought the Wraith in Pegasus i.e. in a different galaxy to their homeworlds.

Remember Earth's never really launched an all out attack against the Wraith. if they had, they'd probably have had as ship like Daedalus captured by now, to defeat the Wraith they'd to use every technological advantage they have (beams and everything), would most certainly need a fleet several times larger, like maybe 50 or so times larger than they've currently got, some upgrading of the current 304's stuff would be needed IMO and built into a proper warship, instead of a carrier/transport with a few decent weapons built in.
The civil war would have to play a major part as would mapping PG for hyperspace activity, surprise runs all over the place, in every possible angle, allies like the jaffa, travelers and whoever else we can get wouldn't go a miss too.

Realistically, much as if the Wraith find their way to Earth in full strength (even with the Asgard Legacy) Earth wouldn't stand a chance, i ll probably say that should the Wraith have ever made it to the 12 colonies, the colonial fleet would have been overrun by sheer weight of numbers.... so pretty much like the Ancients themselves were, and what Earth would be if it wasn't for the distance between Milky Way and Pegasus.

If there's one thing the Wraith have going for them - its not so much the technological capabilities of their ships, but the massive availability of medium (not necessarily high tech) technological ships - which in enough numbers can lay waste to even the most advanced warship.

Before the Wraith civil war... they were probably the single powerfullest race ever on SGuniverse.. and potentially still are. lol

TBPH the Wraith would just keep pounding on the colonials and Cylons until they were all gone, the way they can just keep replacing their fleet with no infrastructure means that without the proper prep, feinting, bobbing and weaving with attacks to stop them from settling I doubt any race would be able to permanently defeat them.

IMO there's more than enough evidence to show that Wraith weaponry would be way more than just a pest to something like Galactica or a Basestar, the No Man's Land nuke comparison I made being a major part of it and how the Hives can out do that by a few times in quick time with some volleys of their shots.

[Buba uognarf]

lol, yet another gateworld member who twists things to his advantage?

Nice personal attack there. I'm stating things from my point of view, I could easily make remarks about you but in the spirit of a good discussion I'm not going too. How about you just respond to what I've said without commenting on me as a person.

So, basically what your saying - is that of all the times we ve seen Wraith Hives engage other ships, despite the fact they ve never ONCE made nucleur yields vs. other ships, even when they are about to be blown to pieces themselves, that they ll magically increase their firepower by several 1000/million/billion factors? - even though in every single ship engagement, we ve yet to see them do it against another ship?

Or maybe their weapons don't cause massive explosions in space because there's no atmosphere? I could easily say its unlikely that Wraith weapons which can drain gigaton level shields are going to be in reality millions of times weaker vs hulls. We've seen examples of Wraith Hives ripping each other to shreds in about 20 shots before e.g. the Hive + the Seer, they made large explosions as well. Possible nuclear yields?

That was an anomoly, orbital strike... whatever, the point is - its a one off, the vast majority of occassions, infact EVERY SINGLE occassion where a Wraith has engaged another ship, its failed to produce this level of firepower. Its a fair bet to say it wouldn't simply start doing so against Battlestars or basestars. Perhaps that was a orbital strike capability it used? Eithier way... we ve never seen a Wraith Hive manage the same level of firepower per shot against enemy ships - and can't assume that just for the purposes of this discussion they ll start doing so now.

Or maybe their weapons don't make big fireballs in space but still pack nuclear levels of energy? There's no air to make the fireballs in space but their weapons could still pack a lot of energy in the form of heat or whatever else. You achknowledge that the Wraith have demonstrated nuclear level yields yes?

As for the rest.. you ve completely skipped over bits. You glossed over the fact a couple of death gliders damaged Prometheus's hull enough for it to have to leave a couple 100/ 1000 people isolated in the pegasus galaxy, with no idea of their fate - simply by saying it was a different ship? Yeah.. that makes sense... even if prometheus's hull is virtually the same as the X304's. I guess to admit Prometheus's Hull and the X304's hull are similar, and that death gliders managed to cause substantial damage on a hull similar to the one the X304's have, would kinda screw your argument if it means that if the wraith fire really was powerful, then it would have killed the X304 there and then.

I replied to the points made about the Wraith, I skipped over some bits of your response which I thought weren't relevent in an effort to not go over the character limit.

Why can this not be an anomaly as you put it Prometheus has a trinium alloy hull, trinium has been stated to be 100x stronger than steel.

CARTER
Yeah, I remember hearing about this. It's supposed to be 100 times lighter and stronger than steel.

The death gliders damaging it is an anomaly it surviving powerful hits isn't.

As for the death gliders hitting a "exposed system" on Prometheus's hull... i see, so on the one hand, a critically massively important component of the Wraith Hive - its Hyperdrive, happens to be unarmoured, unprotected and utterly exposed to F302 fire... thus explaining away any possible (god forbid!) weaknesses to the Wraith Hull... and now, your saying the same for Prometheus's hull - that the enemy just got lucky and hit a weak point?

It is unarmoured. The hyperdrive is underneath the big dome things, its bound to have some protection but its not protected by the main hull. If anti air fighter missiles were able to cause so much damage to Wraith hulls why have rail guns never affected Hives (aside from when firing inside the ship)? We've seen rail guns pepper Hive ships for minutes and cause no damage, no explosions nothing. The rails are bound to pack a lot more punch than a glider canon and a much better rate of fire, yet they do nothing. This doesn't prove nuclear yields but it supports Wraith weapons being far stronger than glider canons.

Anyway, as quoted from the transcript from the episode Prometheus unbound, according the gateworld transcript:

"NOVAK: We managed to get the shields and hyperdrive back online. However, there was significant hull damage. I wouldn't recommend a long journey in hyperspace."

Those death gliders didn't "hit a exposed system" - they inflicted significant hull damage. 2 death gliders shot up a trinium based hull - the same hull you keep saying is 100 times stronger than steel - and inflicted damage which has potentially compromised structural integrity since Prometheus isn't recommended to remain in hyperdrive for very long. The Prometheus and X304 hull's are similar. If 2 death gliders can cause significant damage... then if Wraith Hive fire was really all you made it out to be, it would have torn through the X304's hull like its butter - since the X304's hull is clearly weak and paper thin. How do i know its paper thin... its called windows - you get a good sense of the thickness of the hull when they show the bridge, mess etc...

Ok your right, it did cause significant hull damage. Its a plot hole, a trinium hull should easily resist death glider canons. Thats just SG inconsistancy for you.

Like it or not, 2 death gliders managed to significantly inflict damage to Prometheus's hull... yet similar hulls to the Prometheus's have withstood significant levels of Wraith Hive fire, and survived. I ll say again - if 2 death gliders can cause serious damage to Prometheus's hull, then it stands to reason anything with more firepower would cause even more damage - and anything with a *bit* more firepower would simply blow the hull to pieces. The Wraith Hives are undoubtedly more powerful than the Death Gliders... but not by much. The fact Deadalus is still alive is a testimony to that fact.

No its the testement to the fact that the Deadalus has a tough hull, Wraith Hive weapons are clearly far more powerful than glider canons. Evidence is they can do damage comparable to large nukes and rip ships which can be peppered by rail guns all day long apart.

As for the missile hitting a exposed section of the Wraith Hive to knock out its hyperdrives. What i saw was a well aimed missile hitting the hull of the Wraith Hive, punching through it, and destroying/ damaging the hyperdrive component under the hull. That place that missile hit was no different in colour, texture or really any visible difference to the rest of the hull. The hull failed to protect one of the most critical aspects of the Hive - its ability to find food, engage targets and run away. If thats destroyed, potentially every living Wraith onboard that ship is dead. It isn't going to be unarmoured or unprotected. The same applies to the cruisers weapon systems.

Er...no. The missile hit underneath the big dome thing. Thats been stated to be a critical weak stop, as I've said rail guns do no damage to the hull of Hive ships so obviously without hitting an exposed section neither will anti fighter missiles. The weapon systems need to be open to space to fire, hence they're not defended by armor.

Throw into this other factors - such as a primitive Geni Nuke managing to take out a entire Wraith Hive, or a single drone managing to destroy a cruiser, then the Wraith Hull really isn't that strong - plus the fact the Wraiths own weapon systems - which are incapable of quickly destroying a X304's hull which can be significantly damaged by Death Gliders - thus are relatively weak against hulls, still manage to slick through their own armour fairly easily.

304's have never been damaged by gliders. A geni nuke detonating inside a ship, we've seen Wraith ships violently explode before from bombardment from other Hives, obviously the nuke caused something inside the ship to overload. A kiloton level nuke couldn't vaporize somethign the size of a Hive ship. When the Deadalus beamed its own nuke aboard there were two explosions, an initial one conisiding with the nuke detonating and then a much much large one which took out the ship. This supports by theory. An internal nuke detonation inside whats been shown to be a key place to cause secondary explosions (e.g. the dart bay) does not equal an outside the hull nuke hit.

If the weapons are weak, and their armour doesn't last overly long against their own weapons... this also supports the conclusion their armour is weak.

If their weapons are strong then it reverses though.

This is pure logic. You can't simply say that the death gliders randomly got lucky shots on the Prometheus, or that for whatever reason the Wraith, even when they are loosing ship after ship in battles, decide to use their weapons on "luke warm setting" compared to dialing their firepower up to make the sort of firepower we saw on misbeggotten.

You admit we've seen high levels of firepower then. There's also enough evidence to suggest their weapons are a lot more powerful then you give them credit for if you look at my above arguments e.g. ineffectiveness of rail guns, strength of trinium etc...

The facts are as they are - Wraith Hives have never again generated the sort of firepower seen in Misbeggotten. Prometheus is the proto-type design for the X304's, with a similar hull. 2 death gliders can significantly damage Prometheus's hull. Wraith Hive's fail to destroy ships with similar hulls to the Prometheus.

How do you know they haven't generated that firepower? They drain gigaton level shields? That implies massive firepower, maybe the hulls are just really strong and the death glider incident is the one out of place?

Conclusion: Standard every-day Wraith firepower isn't overly powerful if it only manages to inflict similar levels of damage on a similar hull as what 2 Death Gliders manage to achieve.

It doesn't though, I've answered this above.

If F302 missiles, Wraith weapons fire and rail guns can damage/ destroy critically vital components to the Hive, and in some cases destroy the entire Wraith Hive fairly easily - then their armour isn't that great eithier.

I've answered this above.

As for the rest - Galactica did show visible signs of heating... but survived. She's also been on the verge of being swallowed up by a supa-nova, yet survived.... and been going on for 4 years without repair or replenishment, engaging in numerous battles, passing through god knows what (that one radiation cloud in particular was nasty), plus has withstood 1 direct nuke hit - with Pegasus surviving 6 direct nuke hits in her life.

Hives have withstood nuke hits and kept going, even going as far to destroy an Ancient warship and cripple the deadalus.

I d say you massively underestimate the capabilities of the Battlestar armour... and their weapon systems.

I'd say you underestimate the Wraith go figure.

[mkb441]

Maybe if the Ha'Taks got some good hits on the Hive as they exited hyperspace or came into weapons range then they could kill the Hive but probably not without dying themselves.
For the Ha'Taks to win with any remaining then I think you'd need to have at least 6 and even then half of them would probably get destroyed quite easily by the Hive.


A Ha'Tak's shields are pretty poor, like a 3rd of the strength of a 304's, they're also not packing anything with anywhere near as much of a punch as the Asgard Plasma Beam weapons, at best I'd say their plasma cannons are a few steps up from a 304's rail guns, rate of fire is OK, maybe like I said above if the Ha'Taks caught the Hive off guard then they could kill it but not without dying themselves, although they'd be raining a lot of plasma pulses at the Hive so maybe they'd do better than we think because they'd be attacking in a united way.

I'd think that 6 Ha'Taks would give the Goauld, Jaffa or whoever else was controlling those ships a better edge against the Wraith, but not much of one.
How quickly do you think a Hive could drop a 304's shields?
IMO 40 seconds to a minute of constant fire may be enough to do it.


Then Dragon_Heart's point of making a single thread for any future ideas people have for their Vs battles was a good idea, it means we won't keep getting as many people creating dozens of new threads just for that purpose.

i think u would have to have quite a few hat'taks to take down a hive cause a hiva is the biggest ship in sg next to the city ships and hat'taks are reletively small not t menchin waaaaay overmatched

[mkb441]

Well the ZPM powered Odyssey against the NX, Odyssey would own like a dozen of the things IMO, but up against a Sovereign and you'd probably have a pretty fair fight.



You can do, it's your thread so it's up to you, I'm not sure about stickies.

is soverign picards enterprise or kirks

[mkb441]

assuming they had to fight for some reason and both would...

Nox vs. Asgard

nox wont fight!!

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

i think u would have to have quite a few hat'taks to take down a hive cause a hiva is the biggest ship in sg next to the city ships and hat'taks are reletively small not t menchin waaaaay overmatched

Welcome to Gateworld mkb441, I gave ya some green as a welcome gift.

To reply to your post a fair few Ha'Taks would be needed to win against a Hive no doubt, which is why I said at least 6.
I think the Goauld may be able to take about a third or quarter of the hits a 304 can as Ha'Taks can only take about half an Ori blast, but a 304 can take 2 or 3 if we go off of Camelot.
Seeing as Ha'Taks have nothing with the power of the Asgard beams, but weapons that are probably a few steps up from Rail guns they'd IMO have to spray a Hive with a lot of blasts to harm it, IMO 6 Hives could just about do it, maybe with 1 or 2 surviving.

is soverign picards enterprise or kirks

The Sovereign which was the Enterprise E was Picard's ship (featured in First Contact, Nemesis and Insurrection), Kirk had the Enterprise and Enterprise A, the A was a Constitution class, but I don't know the name of the class which the original series Enterprise went by.
The NX-01 was the Enterprise from Star Enterprise.

nox wont fight!!

Very true in the Stargate universe, but what about in an alternate reality, maybe the Nox had a bad incident that caused a split and a faction became evil like The Lost Tribe of the Asgard.

[Galactic Hitchhiker]

oh my goodness.. the presence of fan wank is strong in this thread. Anyway, in case that most of our four eyes need to get new glasses, one would notice the similarity in wraith and Goa'uld weapons. They both fire plasma orbs of sorts ( no, I don't know the proper technical term for them, I have a life for now), where as phasers and lasers are thin, concentrated beams, that hit one small spot causing damage that reaches deeper instead of larger impact point of the W/G weaponry. Wraith want their enemies alive so they could feed. thus, their weaponry is aligned that in mind. stunning and disabling. Goa'uld like to have slaves so they can feel loved and worshiped, but occasional death of a slave doesn't mean missed meal, so their weaponry is bit more devastating.

I hope that my tired rambling made some sense.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

oh my goodness.. the presence of fan wank is strong in this thread. Anyway, in case that most of our four eyes need to get new glasses, one would notice the similarity in wraith and Goa'uld weapons. They both fire plasma orbs of sorts ( no, I don't know the proper technical term for them, I have a life for now), where as phasers and lasers are thin, concentrated beams, that hit one small spot causing damage that reaches deeper instead of larger impact point of the W/G weaponry. Wraith want their enemies alive so they could feed. thus, their weaponry is aligned that in mind. stunning and disabling. Goa'uld like to have slaves so they can feel loved and worshiped, but occasional death of a slave doesn't mean missed meal, so their weaponry is bit more devastating.

I hope that my tired rambling made some sense.

I'm not sure who you are saying is Fanwanking it. that's a term I've never used before Fanwanking it.

Anyway a Ha'Tak or Two facing the Odyssey in Company of Thieves seemed to take many minutes to harm the 304's shields, but Hives can drop them in like 2 minutes so they'd have to be much more powerful than the Goauld's ship based weapons.

Wraith personnel weapons are of course designed to stun, but Darts and bigger ships seem built for harm, Hives and Cruisers can actually damage Ancient shields and Hives blast each other to pieces in a few volleys, but shrug off the Daedalus's Naqueda enhanced nuke, taking damage but they still keep on fighting.
Two Ha'Taks in Company of Thieves took quite a while to destroy Baal's Ha'Tak.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

OK I have another scenario, how about 100 standard pre-Unending tech 304s from a good Universe Vs 3 post Unending teched up 304s from an alternate bad Universe, who would win?

[General_Finley]

Okay
Apophis's fleet from Exodus VS. The Twelve colonies.

[lordofseas]

Galactica can kick a**. Besides, Colonial fleet has instantantious jumping abilities compared to the Goa'uld's slow hyperdrives. So, Battlestars win.

[ianjones1246]

There's also something ALL (myself included) of us have overlooked.....

We don't actually have a clue just how powerful Battlestar Rail Guns or Mass Drivers are, or how powerful standard used Basestar missiles are - or even how powerful the nukes used against Battlestars are.

The only thing we know is the nuke range used against Caprica city from the mini series. In which case, while some will argue "those nukes must be used against Battlestars" - i d just like to point out - nuking a city you don't necessarily need huge amounts of yields to do the job effectively i.e. a non naquardah enhanced nuke from SG would do the job more than well.

If you intend to conquer a planet, and live on it as humans (as we know the cylons intended), if you intend to conqeur a planet, and take human females as prisoners and use them as breeding farms (sick i know.... but we know the cylons did), then your probably not going to lob your biggest and most powerful nuke at it, destroying the atmosphere, ensuring less survivors - when a far far far weaker yeild will achieve your military objectives (destroying the humans urban centre, ensuring limited resistance).

As such, rather than trying to highlight or figure out the strength of SG Universe weapons, its gonna be a fair bit easier to simply say... noone knows the strength (in terms of yield) of the nukes used against Pegasus and Galactica - or the impact yields of Pegasus/ Galactica's mass drivers. We ve also never seen a Battlestars Nuke used against a ship/ target from the outside - all we know is that a couple of Galactica's nukes (transferred from Pegasus more than likely since Galactica was down to 3 i think it was stated of its own... Pegasus itself was in dry dock and preparing to go into maintaince at the time of the attack, thus potentially didn't have a full complement of the best weapons it could have) would have been capable of vapouring the "Eye of Jupiter" temple and the surrounding continent had they been launched - so potentially not all that weak as people seem to be thinking.

Thus, unless someone can come up with the yields of the Battlestars Main weapons, or basestars missiles... everything is pure speculation. If we don't know how powerful weapons are, we can't possibly figure out how powerful the armour is.

Now... on a different vs. topic - Peacekeeper Command Carrier vs. Wraith Hive - who would win?

My money goes to the Peacekeepers (i think the command carriers are estimated at 40km long?), plus they have 2 layers of shielding (granted a single layer has holes in... but its still reasonably effective), massive quantities of fighters/ bombers - and big huge plasma throwing cannons.

[Galactic Hitchhiker]

sorry, couldn't resist..

[General_Finley]

Okay a six way battle for the universe between ZPM powered Odyssey, ZPM powered hive, Ori Mothership, Anubis’s flagship super weapon, an O’Neill class warship taken over by block replicators, and an Asuran Aurora class warship.