The Stargate's Eighth Chevron

[Aer'ki]

again i say: the pegasus gates have a built-in flaw. now the Sister ship had a chair in the normal gateroom, and the gate outside. seeing as humans can pretty easily transport the chair, its possible the villagers took the gate there and put the chair in the gateroom. or it simply was a different model

Villagers carried the gate outside???? A bit heavy for them to move. Did they break open the windows to carry it out. Too big to go through the doorways.


As for Enemy at the Gate...the episode is junk, and I'm not the only one to say so. The writers contradict themselves so much in that episode, I don't know how anyone can take it seriously.

If a red gate can dial a blue gate, then the midway station in the gate bridge wouldn't have been built and there would have simply been a one way macro through the entire link with no stop over.

I hate to say this, but I don't think there is any way to take Enemy at the Gate as canon. It feels like they just slopped a bunch of stuff together to get the series over with. I don't know what more to say about it...I was very surprised by the poor quality. I thought the writers were better than that, especially for the last episode of the series.

[thekillman]

i was thinking. not about your frequency stuff as i think its a ridiculous, unnessecary explanation, never proven. but something IS proven: apparently its a more advanced design. so again i say: there's incompatibility. but not so much in the normal dialling, as atlantis can dial earth. but if the gatebridge requires two different gates... i believe there were two different macros. so maybe thats the problem: different software means two different macros are needed: pegasus and milky way. see it like wordpad and Word. both can be typed in, only word is more advanced: they do the same, only one has more functions and is more advanced.

[Aer'ki]

i was thinking. not about your frequency stuff as i think its a ridiculous, unnessecary explanation, never proven. but something IS proven: apparently its a more advanced design. so again i say: there's incompatibility. but not so much in the normal dialling, as atlantis can dial earth. but if the gatebridge requires two different gates... i believe there were two different macros. so maybe thats the problem: different software means two different macros are needed: pegasus and milky way. see it like wordpad and Word. both can be typed in, only word is more advanced: they do the same, only one has more functions and is more advanced.

Interesting thought...but the macro is uploaded into each gate, telling it to store the pattern then send it through to the next gate. The macro's don't actually talk to each other, they just pass off the traveler like a baton between them.

And it should go for saying that if a connection can be established, then the software for all connection-related feats is also compatible.

By 'talking to them' I don't mean they don't pass information through a correlative update or something like that. I just meant they don't pass information when the gatebridge is actually used. McKay altered the endpoint away from Atlantis from the Midway station in The Return.

[Quadhelix]

As for Enemy at the Gate...the episode is junk, and I'm not the only one to say so. The writers contradict themselves so much in that episode, I don't know how anyone can take it seriously.

Too bad: until the writers say they messed up, its canon.

If a red gate can dial a blue gate, then the midway station in the gate bridge wouldn't have been built and there would have simply been a one way macro through the entire link with no stop over.

Perhaps as a quarantine measure (as seen in "Midway"). Maybe some other reason that we simply haven't considered yet.

Also, there is the very real possibility that the only Milky Way 'Gates in the 'Gate Bridge are the one at the Midway Station, the one at the SGC, and one or more on planets at the edge of the Milky Way.

I hate to say this, but I don't think there is any way to take Enemy at the Gate as canon. It feels like they just slopped a bunch of stuff together to get the series over with.

Except that, when they wrote "Enemy at the Gate," they were expecting a sixth season.

[Aer'ki]

Also, there is the very real possibility that the only Milky Way 'Gates in the 'Gate Bridge are the one at the Midway Station, the one at the SGC, and one or more on planets at the edge of the Milky Way.

Nope. Rodney made clear in his lecture that Midway is the handoff point. He specifically stated that at Midway you leave the MW 'network' and enter the Pegasus 'network'.

And do you really think the writers would call their own work a pile of crap? And yes, EATG should be canon, but if you really believed that your head would explode trying to fit all the pieces together. I haven't heard anything on the news about stargate fans' heads exploding so I'll assume that people have some common sense. Though "officially" it is Canon...wink, wink.

[Aer'ki]

Except that, when they wrote "Enemy at the Gate," they were expecting a sixth season.

They have said that each season they have to write an episode to be used as a series ender if it is cancelled. So every season of SG-1 and Atlantis had an episode that never went to air because the series was continued.

My guess is that EATG was this episode, hastily scratched together, then when they finally got word that the series was cancelled they used the episode on file that they never really intended to use...hence it feels like a rushed conclusion.

[Quadhelix]

Nope. Rodney made clear in his lecture that Midway is the handoff point. He specifically stated that at Midway you leave the MW 'network' and enter the Pegasus 'network'.

My mistake.

However, the point remains that there is no reason to think that Pegasus 'Gates and Milky Way 'Gates are incapable of dialing one another. After all, if that were the reason for the Midway Station, why not set up the "Midway" station on a planet in the Milky Way, and thus save the trouble of building a space station.

And do you really think the writers would call their own work a pile of crap?

Admitting to making a mistake is not the same as calling their work "a pile of crap."

And yes, EATG should be canon, but if you really believed that your head would explode trying to fit all the pieces together.

Funny, my head hasn't exploded and I have argued quite a bit on the subject of that episode.

Though "officially" it is Canon...

...it's officially canon. That is the end of it.

right so an eight chevron address is between galaxies. and that some gate's eight chevron can't be used. but what would happen if an eighth chevron capable gate dialled one that couldn't use its eighth chevron?

That raises the question of just how the eighth chevron works and what an eight-chevron address means. There are several possibilities for how an eight-chevron address would work:

1. An eight-chevron address designates a region not much larger than a single seven-chevron address; thus, each planet would have its own eight-chevron address. The eighth chevron itself would act as a sort of "galaxy code," allowing the traveler to dial a specific address in a specific galaxy. An eight-chevron dial would be limited to locations in the Local Group, due to the limited number of glyphs.

2. An eight-chevron address designates a region significantly larger than that designated by a seven-chevron address, perhaps as large as an entire galaxy. Much the way a Stargate with a DHD takes precedence over a Stargate without, a Stargate connected to a dialer capable of engaging the eighth-chevron would take precedence over a Stargate without such a capability. Such a dialing system could conceivably establish a connection with any galaxy in the Local Supercluster.

[thekillman]

actually i believe it was the seventh chevron that was the galaxy code: six to determine the point in space, the seventh to determine the galaxy, the eight being the point of origin.

an eight chevron adress IMO is a solar system (roughly) only. so each system has its own eight-chevron adress. then again, i think its just the normal adress with an additional galaxy chevron

[Quadhelix]

actually i believe it was the seventh chevron that was the galaxy code: six to determine the point in space, the seventh to determine the galaxy, the eight being the point of origin.

That depends on the terminology used: yes, the last glyph encoded is the Point of Origin. However, due to the fact the chevron atop the 'Gate is the seventh engaged in an "ordinary" dial, it is general call the "seventh" chevron. Thus, the order of chevrons in an eight-chevron dial is 1-2-3-4-5-6-8-7.

an eight chevron adress IMO is a solar system (roughly) only. so each system has its own eight-chevron adress. then again, i think its just the normal adress with an additional galaxy chevron

Any particular evidence to support this?


As a side note, if an eight-chevron address encoded only a single star system, it would be smaller than a seven-chevron address: there are quite a few stars that share Earth's address. I know this because there are 1,987,690,320 (~2 billion) possible seven-chevron 'Gate addresses, but around 200-400 billion stars in the Milky Way. This means that each address must share an average of one to two hundred stars.

[Aer'ki]

That depends on the terminology used: yes, the last glyph encoded is the Point of Origin. However, due to the fact the chevron atop the 'Gate is the seventh engaged in an "ordinary" dial, it is general call the "seventh" chevron. Thus, the order of chevrons in an eight-chevron dial is 1-2-3-4-5-6-8-7.



Any particular evidence to support this?


As a side note, if an eight-chevron address encoded only a single star system, it would be smaller than a seven-chevron address: there are quite a few stars that share Earth's address. I know this because there are 1,987,690,320 (~2 billion) possible seven-chevron 'Gate addresses, but around 200-400 billion stars in the Milky Way. This means that each address must share an average of one to two hundred stars.

I don't think so. I think there was at least one episode that mentioned there being multiple gates in the same system. I think it was bra'tac that mentioned it when looking for keb.

Anyway, I don't think Daniel Jackson was correct in his idea of how the gate works. I don't think the addresses are map coordinates in the sky...I think they are just phone numbers. Since the Altera lived on Avalon(Earth) they chose star constellations as their 'numbers', which is why it looks that way from Earth, but wouldn't make sense from any other planet, especially from other galaxies.

[Quadhelix]

I don't think so. I think there was at least one episode that mentioned there being multiple gates in the same system. I think it was bra'tac that mentioned it when looking for keb.

Given the fact that Stargates are almost always placed on habitable worlds, Bre'Tac likely meant something different by "system," as the odds of finding multiple habitable worlds in the same star system are...slim.

Also, there is still the fact that there are over a hundred stars for each 'Gate address. What happens if you move a Stargate from one star system to another?

Anyway, I don't think Daniel Jackson was correct in his idea of how the gate works. I don't think the addresses are map coordinates in the sky...I think they are just phone numbers. Since the Altera lived on Avalon(Earth) they chose star constellations as their 'numbers', which is why it looks that way from Earth, but wouldn't make sense from any other planet, especially from other galaxies.

Great theory, but the SGC knows enough about Stargates to determine a planet's location from its 'Gate-address ("Memento"). This means that there must be some correlation between address and position.

[thekillman]

the idea that its about the size of a solar system is the fact that you can move an active stargate over great distances, like tossing it into a star, and the fact that a planet moves.

[Quadhelix]

the idea that its about the size of a solar system is the fact that you can move an active stargate over great distances, like tossing it into a star, and the fact that a planet moves.

Those are very good reasons. Another, as I have mentioned, is that for every 'Gate address in the Milky Way galaxy, there are over a hundred stars.

By the way, you never explained why you felt that the "eighth" chevron was a "galaxy code," rather than the entire eight-chevron address designating a galaxy, or some other system. I'm curious to hear your reasoning.

[thekillman]

because of the way a destination is made. six to determine the location. the eight chevron to tell what galaxy it is in, then the 7th to determine the POO

[Quadhelix]

because of the way a destination is made. six to determine the location. the eight chevron to tell what galaxy it is in, then the 7th to determine the POO

I used to think that as well. However, there are several problems. First, if a Stargate is located between galaxies, how would one dial that Stargate? Second, if eight-chevron addresses do work in that manner, they would, in effect, be limited to the traveler's current galaxy group or cluster. Indeed, that type of eight-chevron address would be insufficient for many galaxy clusters, which can contain anywhere from 50 to 1,000 galaxies.

Furthermore, the Local Supercluster contains over a hundred groups and clusters, meaning that, even if the ninth chevron is a group/cluster code, it would be insufficient for travel throughout the Local Supercluster, let alone for travel between superclusters.

because of the way a destination is made. six to determine the location. the eight chevron to tell what galaxy it is in, then the 7th to determine the POO

Do they ever describe it that way? I know that they originally said that the eighth chevron was "a new distance calculation" ("The Fifth Race", emphasis mine). However, one perfectly valid interpretation of this is that the first six six chevrons define a direction (as, to an extent, they usually do) while the eighth defines the distance. In other words, the first six tell the direction to the destination galaxy (or region of void), while the last tells how far away the galaxy (or void) is.

Yes, I know that Carter compared it to an area code, but remember that she was speaking to, effectively, a layman, and would thus have simplified her explanation a fair bit.