Mistakes in Space battles

[Butlersgate]

ROFL, are you trying to say bald commanders are suicidal?

i am sure that what he means is that the baldies can sense the hair on the enemy so hence why they move in a straight line towards the enemy ships, in the episodes where they stay stationary, there must just be baldies on board the enemy ship(s)

[Quadhelix]

The Prometheus should never have been in any serious danger even from 1000 of those platforms. They simply shouldn't be capable of hitting it at range if it's moving, while they on the other hand, being stationary targets with slow firing weapons, really have no way to NOT get hit by incoming nukes it fires back at them.

This, of course, assumes that the Prometheus is actually maneuverable enough to dodge a beam from the Ori satellite. Yes, the beam propagates slowly, but it is still capable of leading its target, so the ship, in order to dodge, has to be able to change its path quickly enough that it is no longer flying directly into the path of the beam.

As for evasive action against a Hiveship, we have actually seen lone Hiveships hit BC-304s that were engaged in actual, honest-to-goodness dodging (though perhaps not the swirvy, curvy dodging that would be best if they were capable), so it might be more tactically sound to just shunt the power that would got engines into the shields. After all, if it causes them to get hit by three more shots but strengthens the shields enough to absorb four more shots, it is a good trade off.

[Ouroboros]

This, of course, assumes that the Prometheus is actually maneuverable enough to dodge a beam from the Ori satellite. Yes, the beam propagates slowly, but it is still capable of leading its target, so the ship, in order to dodge, has to be able to change its path quickly enough that it is no longer flying directly into the path of the beam.

Missile type weapons have an effectively unlimited range in space against a stationary target. If you can't dodge their beam from a given distance just move further away until you can.

As for evasive action against a Hiveship, we have actually seen lone Hiveships hit BC-304s that were engaged in actual, honest-to-goodness dodging (though perhaps not the swirvy, curvy dodging that would be best if they were capable), so it might be more tactically sound to just shunt the power that would got engines into the shields. After all, if it causes them to get hit by three more shots but strengthens the shields enough to absorb four more shots, it is a good trade off.

Since you have no idea what they're going to hit you with or how strong it's going to be I think I'd rather use evasion in concert with shields than just assume that redirecting power to shields while letting them dial me in for 100% accuracy is the better way to go.

We saw how well the "imobile bunker" strategy worked against the Ori and Superhive afterall. That strategy is basically the equavalent of standing toe to toe with somebody and just trading head punches until one of you falls over. It's basically a direct numbers contest between your power generation, shield and weapon systems and theirs with no tactics in play at all. It's all and all a pretty stupid posture to be taking against unknown enemy warships many times the size of your own which, if not for continual bailouts by the plot, you'd have every logical expectation to assume would have greater firepower than your own, simply by virtue of their often enormous volume advantages.

By parking and trading punches you're basically assuming your tech is better than theirs, often despite their size advantage, and so you don't really need to dodge their shots. When the thing you're staring down helped to wipe out the ancients and is about 50 times your displacement, or is a warship built with "tips" from ascended beings you might want to be a little less over the top arrogant than that.

This arrogance already cost them a ship vs the Ori, a ship vs the Ori satellite and should have cost them a ship, maybe 3 if the other two parked as well, vs the superhive and they still do it.

The superhive's especially bad to, not quite as bad as the satellite, but still bad because Todd specifically warned them how powerful it was.

[Butlersgate]

if they always moved and avoided shots then eventually people will be like "oh they always win why don't we ever get hit by enemy fire their ships should own ours etc."

[Mike272]

Well, one of the biggest errors is the fact that there is SOUND. In space there is /no/ sound. Oh well, it adds dramatic flare.

[Butlersgate]

Well, one of the biggest errors is the fact that there is SOUND. In space there is /no/ sound. Oh well, it adds dramatic flare.

you are forgetting that while they are fighting a magical buble of air surrounds each ship so that noise can be heard, doesn't everyone know that

[Ouroboros]

if they always moved and avoided shots then eventually people will be like "oh they always win why don't we ever get hit by enemy fire their ships should own ours etc."

Well if they avoided every shot yes, but it's hardly impossible to depict evasion as being useful tactically without it degenerating into stupidity. It's hardly an either or choice here.

"They always win" is also a perfectly valid complaint given that "they" are flying around in one of the smallest ships built by the least advanced race with only added on tech from a more advanced race. "They" should be looking at head to head confrontations with things like Ori ships, Repli Auroras and Hives as suicidal, not something they win in 3 shots with no damage.

The way the battle with the superhive went should basically be the way it goes with any one of those 3 I just mentioned, regular non super hive, Ori ship or Aurora. The Asgard upgrades should be more about allowing them to stay alive a little longer not allowing them to take on multiples of those ships at once without any serious sense of danger.

BSG, Farscape and Firefly managed this sort of relationship just fine with the "hero" ship so it's hardly impossible. It's only impossible if you want the show to degenerate into a self indulgent fanboy fantasy about 'merica kickin' evil alien ass with giant space guns.

[Cmdr. Setsuna F. Seyei]

you are forgetting that while they are fighting a magical buble of air surrounds each ship so that noise can be heard, doesn't everyone know that

a couple of points

1. this so called magic bubble of air isnt air it is a vacuum 304's dont fly around with their shields up all the time as that would be a waste of power.

2. i read somewhere the x304's hava a length of about 600 ft that equates to a smaller class of Aircraft Carrier (i.e. Vietnam/Korea era) as most of our current carriers are between 900-1200ft + or - about 300ft.

3. since these ships were designed for space travel and battles you would think that like our space shuttles the would be equiped with some form of retro rockets to help them manuever faster and more accurately in battle situations.

4. with the integration of Asgard tech IMO the computers onboard these newer ships should be able to compensate for pitch/yaw/roll/and momentum and be able to get the shots to hit their targets with at least a 80-90% accuracy rate.

[Mike272]

you are forgetting that while they are fighting a magical buble of air surrounds each ship so that noise can be heard, doesn't everyone know that

LOL, ...oh yes, how could I forget?

[mkb441]

It seems like in almost every space battle (especially ones with 304s) their plan off attack is really lacking. By that I mean: Almost every time a Tau'ri-built ship is in a battle, it takes heavy damage when it could have easily been avoided. It occurs in countless episodes like:

"Camelot" - The Odyssey and Korolev just stay in one spot while the Ori ships cut through them in just a few shots.

"Off The Grid" - The Odyssey just stays in one spot when firing at the Lucian Alliance Ha'taks (although it does rotate 180 degrees).

"The Siege, Part 3" - The Daedalus is basically standing still when it faces a fleet of 10 Hive ships and several cruisers.

"The Hive" - The Daedalus flies in a straight line toward the two hive ships firing at it.

"No Man's Land" - Well the Daedalus does move a bit more, it is basically flying straight toward the Hive at a relatively low speed.

"Search and Rescue" - While its shields are lowered, the Daedalus is completely stopped, taking serious damage from a Wraith cruiser.

"Enemy at the Gate" *The Daedalus stays in one spot making it an easy target for the series of shots the Hive Ship fires at it.
*When Atlantis arrives at Earth, it only stays in one spot. However, I will give them the benefit of the doubt on that one as citys generally aren't very maneuverable.

-To name a few. The only one where they actually moved and evaded enemy fire was in "Be All My Sins Remember'd" during the Battle of Asuras. That's what made the battle so successful and exciting. It just seems like common sense that you don't fly in a straight line. It's suicide!!!

This is unlikely, but this might be related to the trend of Bald 304 commanders...

dude there was only 2 hives the other one was destroyed by the ancient satelite.

[Anubis10545]

dude there was only 2 hives the other one was destroyed by the ancient satelite.

In the first wave there were 3, one was destroyed by the satellite... then 12 more were sent and the Daedalus beamed a nuke onto 2 before they opened fire... 10 remained.

[Grifff]

And especially against Hive Ships. They're so much larger than 304s, they can easily be out maneuvered. You would think that it actually be near-impossible for a Hive to hit a moving 304 for that very reason.

i disagree id think even ive a 304 was moving at a fair speed the hive computers or the wraith equal would be able to predict were the 304 would move next with a fair amount of reliability and shoot were the 304 will/would be in a few seconds

[thekillman]

in TLM, a hive never missed one shot

[oniel193]

And especially against Hive Ships. They're so much larger than 304s, they can easily be out maneuvered. You would think that it actually be near-impossible for a Hive to hit a moving 304 for that very reason.

I agree with griff on this point the evasive manuvers however worked pretty well in season finale of season 10 but that was against a ori ship with only 1 beam cannon (thats pretty stupid huh) in the front if the 304 is behind the ori ship it wont stand a real chance. The diffrence with hives they have multiple turrets so they can shoot at them where ever they are. with griff's point again the wraith computers could easily calculate where it would be in a few seconds.

[thekillman]

they already do, hives never miss