Death Gliders vs Tanks (M1 Abrams)

[Guest750]

The thing is, thekillman, that your are saying it wouldn't be a pathetic mordern copter but a technologically advanced one and saying it would be better than an old tank. WELL NO DUH! It's more advanced and generally better armed. However, for it to be fair, the tanks would also have to recieve some upgrades.

[Stewart5]

real life does not apply to stargate situations. or atleast: mostly doesnt

in which case tanks can shrug off anything? Dude, normally your post are really intelligent, but that one made no sense. There are some realife elements you have to take into account. Because your post gives cart blanche for anything I want to happen the way i think it would in gateverse rather than realverse.
I am also going to assume you didn't mean to word it that way.

And under-armed?

120mm high velocity, rifled cannon that fires L27A1 APFSDS, has a co-axial chaingun, a pintle 7.62, armour that is still classified(but is ERA) and can go 30mph off road! (wiki is wrong, btw)

Your point is moot!

Seriously?

Your fancy spaceships' energy weapons are absolutely useless in ground combat, if you haven't noticed. Death Gliders' staff cannons were proven useless on infantry targets; they're only effective on a direct hit and they create no shrapnel or splash damage whatsoever. All energy weapons we've seen were of the same variety (with the exception of Asgard and Ori beams, which were energy-hungry and only suited to large ships, not "gatecopters". If you start mounting cannons and machine guns on "gatecopters", then all their other super duper high-tech parts are simply superfluous.


Advanced ships can be effectively targeted with weapon types that no one in the Gateverse has thought of for some reason- anti-radiation missiles of a similar kind to those used to destroy radars in the real-life world. Put a shield modulator on it and make it sight itself in on the "gatecopters" energy signature, and bye bye "gatecopter". Standing tanks, on the other hand, can only be detected visually, and with some camouflage, not even then.

All well said.

[thekillman]

except that the kinetic force of the railgunshell would be more extreme than a mortarshell, and WOULD cause area damage. the sheer force of impact will be massive. besides, railguns can fire different types of ammo aswell.

fire from a standstill? since when? you can fire a railgun at high speed.

no guided weapons? i mentioned missiles a dozen times

you cant hit something as small as a tank from orbit? thats ridiculous.

plasma not powerfull? it is.


a PDL is a Point Defence laser. current RL lasers can acquire and kill a target in 6 seconds. imagine stargate ones. besides, the gatecopter would be too fast to be hit by the tank.



now, seeing as you cant really build a proper tank:

tank, all trinium-aluminium alloys for strong and light metals.

main turret is a powerfull 150mm railgun. turret can do a 360 and over the y axis, do 200 degrees. actuators are fast, inertia dampened. infact, the whole tank is.

the main way of propulsion is via threads. all-trinium threads. propulsion is via electromotors. the tank has sensors, a sensor module that can be fired up in the air, advanced computers, tracking, asides its main guns are two missile pods containing small yet powerfull AA/ AT missiles, and has 2x 3 StO missiles (surface to orbit).
tank is covered in Ceramic polymer.
it has a second PDL turret.
a Culling beam feeds the Railgun and has all its ammo stored.


now this COULD POTENTIALLY beat my copter. but even then my copter is still more agile and faster. and can get to orbit.

and if you say, "add an AG engine," then why not make a gatecopter in the FIRST place?


a gatecopter is better than an AG tank.

tanks are useless.

QED

[Stewart5]

except that the kinetic force of the railgunshell would be more extreme than a mortarshell, and WOULD cause area damage. the sheer force of impact will be massive. besides, railguns can fire different types of ammo aswell.

Very true!

[Stewart5]

a PDL is a Point Defence laser. current RL lasers can acquire and kill a target in 6 seconds. imagine stargate ones. besides, the gatecopter would be too fast to be hit by the tank.

now, seeing as you cant really build a proper tank:

tank, all trinium-aluminium alloys for strong and light metals.

main turret is a powerfull 150mm railgun. turret can do a 360 and over the y axis, do 200 degrees. actuators are fast, inertia dampened. infact, the whole tank is.

the main way of propulsion is via threads. all-trinium threads. propulsion is via electromotors. the tank has sensors, a sensor module that can be fired up in the air, advanced computers, tracking, asides its main guns are two missile pods containing small yet powerfull AA/ AT missiles, and has 2x 3 StO missiles (surface to orbit).
tank is covered in Ceramic polymer.
it has a second PDL turret.
a Culling beam feeds the Railgun and has all its ammo stored.


now this COULD POTENTIALLY beat my copter. but even then my copter is still more agile and faster. and can get to orbit.

and if you say, "add an AG engine," then why not make a gatecopter in the FIRST place?


a gatecopter is better than an AG tank.

tanks are useless.

QED

Ur 'copter' has rapidly stopped being a copter and just evolved into an outright fighter.

150mm railgun? Which then just becomes a hyper velocity tank gun with more penetrative power, but less anti-infantry power. No matter what you say, 150mm projectile weapon will have a low RoF, even with railgun tech. Firing objects that large, that quickly with that much force in a short space of time would not be possible in atmo, not with recoil and such.

And yes, u will answer with inertial dampners and yes that would reduce recoil, but what about both friction of the round leaving the weapon, air friction and ammo capacity if you could SOMEHOW achieve the dsired RoF??? To have a railgun that could do that, ud need something the size of a small house with barrels pointing out of it.

Even modern tanks, IFVs and some APCs have missile pods on their turrets to take out fast moving helicopter (yes, I know already, urs is not a normal one)

Have we also forgotten that your gate copter would be a human invention, and there would be relatively few of them? They would work WITH the tanks against the enemy. Copter run-blocks the Darts, tanks blows up wraith ("regenerate that, u oversized mosquito!!! Ha ha ha!")

We'll have to agree to disagree here, bud.

[Stewart5]

and if you say, "add an AG engine," then why not make a gatecopter in the FIRST place?

Also, if read ANY canon from any sci-fi where there are tanks, it is possible to have AG tanks that do not need to fly. it simply makes it more mobile and able to acces more areas, in AN INFANTRY SUPPORT ROLE

Supportive as a gate copter may be, it can't provided a nice shield or heavy ground fire that a tank can

Not to mention the morale effect a large piece of armour aimed at your thin light infantry wall provides

[Laxian of Earth]

yep, the tank would boost moral (and it is usefull as described above)

and as for a real AG-Engine: It would be able to fly, it just would not normaly (rather hover 10 centimeters (or more if need be) of the ground for infantery to take cover behind it.)

as for armament i still would replace the "old" normal tank gun with something more fancy and then arm it wit additional anti air means (two missile packs - one on each side of the turret and a few smaller energy cannons for infantery fire support and AA cover)

greetings LAX
ps: killy seems a bit stubborn ^^ (but we are, too

[Stewart5]

yep, the tank would boost moral (and it is usefull as described above)

and as for a real AG-Engine: It would be able to fly, it just would not normaly (rather hover 10 centimeters (or more if need be) of the ground for infantery to take cover behind it.)

as for armament i still would replace the "old" normal tank gun with something more fancy and then arm it wit additional anti air means (two missile packs - one on each side of the turret and a few smaller energy cannons for infantery fire support and AA cover)

greetings LAX

Can't say about the Abrie, but the Charlie 2 has 2 7.62 machine guns, one pintle mounted for air, and one a CHAINGUN, coaxial, that can traverse wherever the main gun can.

ps: killy seems a bit stubborn ^^ (but we are, too

But killy also tends to know what he's talking about. Most of the time.

[thekillman]

the theoretical maximum ROF for a railgun is the speed you can toss ammo into the barrel. barrel. no, two metal bars with a massive current on them. the deadalus fires in streams. a tank would to. you can fire a stream, and then pause and fire a stream, or just fire in a machinegun fashion. also, the firepower can be increased with more power, and is only limited by the cooling and the resistance of the barrel.

so far all you propose is a weak standard tank that cant do squat.


boost morale? if i had a shielded copter to back me up i would be much happier. it could clean the battlefield before i arrive, so i can infiltrate the facility and uncover whatever is in it.

please. give me a valid reason to use a tank. your attemps are downright pathetic. so far the only reason is that it boosts morale. the copter can fly low and have its shields take the impacts. before that, its guns wouldve cleaned whatever jaffa or what on the ground. so far, only ori and possibly Hebridans can counter the gatecopter cause only they got wat it takes. wraith? big no. if they come by gate, shrapnell rains down on them destroying the darts. if they come from space, frag slugs will kill them. if frag slugs dont kill them, normal rounds do.
if a cruiser moves in: much better. if we're smart, the gate stays open, a 305 gatefighter moves through and uses its nuke to kill the cruiser. or the asgard drones.

hebridans have small ships aswell, so they could go fight the gatecopter.

alkesh? no chance. deathgliders: can it get more pathetic?

besides, a gatecopter isnt concerned with fighters. gatefighters take out those.

and i dont care if there are a few. their insane kill/death rate will allow them to fly a thousand missions before they MIGHT get downed.

this is stargate. recoil is nullified by inercial dampeners. railguns provide high ROF. massive range (250 kilometers with today railguns), immense speed (mach 6?).

[SavetheGate]

But what if the replaced the main gun with a jaffa staff weapon, then replaced the machi9ne / gattling gun on top with a rail gun

[Stewart5]

the theoretical maximum ROF for a railgun is the speed you can toss ammo into the barrel. barrel. no, two metal bars with a massive current on them. the deadalus fires in streams. a tank would to. you can fire a stream, and then pause and fire a stream, or just fire in a machinegun fashion. also, the firepower can be increased with more power, and is only limited by the cooling and the resistance of the barrel.

so far all you propose is a weak standard tank that cant do squat.


boost morale? if i had a shielded copter to back me up i would be much happier. it could clean the battlefield before i arrive, so i can infiltrate the facility and uncover whatever is in it.

please. give me a valid reason to use a tank. your attemps are downright pathetic. so far the only reason is that it boosts morale. the copter can fly low and have its shields take the impacts. before that, its guns wouldve cleaned whatever jaffa or what on the ground. so far, only ori and possibly Hebridans can counter the gatecopter cause only they got wat it takes. wraith? big no. if they come by gate, shrapnell rains down on them destroying the darts. if they come from space, frag slugs will kill them. if frag slugs dont kill them, normal rounds do.
if a cruiser moves in: much better. if we're smart, the gate stays open, a 305 gatefighter moves through and uses its nuke to kill the cruiser. or the asgard drones.

hebridans have small ships aswell, so they could go fight the gatecopter.

alkesh? no chance. deathgliders: can it get more pathetic?

besides, a gatecopter isnt concerned with fighters. gatefighters take out those.

and i dont care if there are a few. their insane kill/death rate will allow them to fly a thousand missions before they MIGHT get downed.

this is stargate. recoil is nullified by inercial dampeners. railguns provide high ROF. massive range (250 kilometers with today railguns), immense speed (mach 6?).

And ur attempts at creating these....things.....are pathetic fanwank. I assume during creation that they were granted instant plot sheilds and real situations aren't takne into acount??? Ur just doing what TPTB did with 302s, only worse........

[Laxian of Earth]

well his ideas are not bad, but he just dismisses ours out of hand, without taking reality into account, that's what infuriates me, it's not, as said, that his ideas have no grain of truth to them, but ours do, too

greetings LAX
ps: for the 302's, what do you not like about them?

[Stewart5]

well his ideas are not bad, but he just dismisses ours out of hand, without taking reality into account, that's what infuriates me, it's not, as said, that his ideas have no grain of truth to them, but ours do, too

greetings LAX
ps: for the 302's, what do you not like about them?

I don't dislike them, but I have a thing in sci-fi bout invincible stuff, good guy or bad guy, u know, the normal foot slogger has NO chance against. The updated WotWs, with the aliens that just wouldn't die. Daleks in doctor who, Ori in S10(before undending), or when u get INVINCIBLE 302s that take out dozens of enemy fighters that are much more hi-tech, plot shields for good guys, that sort of thing.

If there has been a battle scene, there should be dead from both sides. The good guys should lose as many planes as the enemy.
And regular, non-hero(with no plot shield) soldiers should stand a hope in hell (even if a small one. Yeah, those aliens are tough, but enough firepower and eventualy we will take one down.....)
U get the idea? I hope?

[thekillman]

my copters arent plot shielded or heroshielded. the difference with your ideas is quality. mine are high-quality and expensive. massive Kill/death ratio (as most races we know have NOTHING to counter with), can take hits, etc. but dont think its shield is invincible, or its armor. it takes enemies out of the picture. hives with nukes, groundforces with orbital bombardment. it can kill wraith cruisers, with asgard drones ha'tak aswell. now, if the wraith focuss on these things, and fire their fast (read: Last man) bolts, then the copters are dead soon. if they are goauld (read: Idiotic morons), then their bolts will probably miss anyway (seen camelot? they MISS STATIONARY SHIPS OF OVER 1KM!!!!)

im not saying its uber. im saying that your groundforces have nothing to kill it with. as i said, there will be gatefighters, and they will take care of enemy fighters.



our 302's arent uber or fanwank. the real problem lies in the fact that the enemy fighters are pathetic. i mean, yea, they're alien, and yea, they have energy guns. but the one lesson of SG1: projectile guns are better. fit a dart with missiles: Bye Bye 302's. fit a Glider with missiles; Bye Bye 302's. infact, the fighters themselves arent bad. question is: when do we meet the aliens that build ships meant for WAR.

Goauld: intimidation
Lucian Alliance: just some ragtag goauld ships
wraith: colony ships
ori: well, they had warships. but still nothing i would call a ship built for actual war
replicators: nope, no ships meant for war.

i mean, an underdog race understands war. when do the aliens?

[Stewart5]

my copters arent plot shielded or heroshielded. the difference with your ideas is quality. mine are high-quality and expensive. massive Kill/death ratio (as most races we know have NOTHING to counter with), can take hits, etc. but dont think its shield is invincible, or its armor. it takes enemies out of the picture. hives with nukes, groundforces with orbital bombardment. it can kill wraith cruisers, with asgard drones ha'tak aswell. now, if the wraith focuss on these things, and fire their fast (read: Last man) bolts, then the copters are dead soon. if they are goauld (read: Idiotic morons), then their bolts will probably miss anyway (seen camelot? they MISS STATIONARY SHIPS OF OVER 1KM!!!!)

im not saying its uber. im saying that your groundforces have nothing to kill it with. as i said, there will be gatefighters, and they will take care of enemy fighters.

our 302's arent uber or fanwank. the real problem lies in the fact that the enemy fighters are pathetic. i mean, yea, they're alien, and yea, they have energy guns. but the one lesson of SG1: projectile guns are better. fit a dart with missiles: Bye Bye 302's. fit a Glider with missiles; Bye Bye 302's. infact, the fighters themselves arent bad. question is: when do we meet the aliens that build ships meant for WAR.

Goauld: intimidation
Lucian Alliance: just some ragtag goauld ships
wraith: colony ships
ori: well, they had warships. but still nothing i would call a ship built for actual war
replicators: nope, no ships meant for war.

i mean, an underdog race understands war. when do the aliens?

SO they would be totally immune to any and all AA. Sounds pretty beardy to me.