Infantry Weapons

[Commander Thor]

You guys have far fewer troops in the region than the U.S. so statistically you are going to have fewer friendly fire incidents.

I honestly don't know why the two officers weren't disciplined. Maybe the two pilots had an exemplary record up to that point and were just eager to take out then enemy... which could've been the reason why their senior command was lenient on them... Maybe that was why they weren't put through a court martial.... You can bet that the pilot who fired the shots won't ever see Colonel and its highly possbile that the to other pilot won't see them silver oak leaves either (Lt. Col).

All I know is that the pilots I worked with (Marine Pilots) won't release bombs or fire their weapons unless they have authorization or clearly identified the target(s) as hostile. I've seen enough of their videos (when I was trouble shooting their targeting systems) to know that they are by the book when it comes to procedures. I haven't heard or any friendly fire incidents with Marine pilots. We do a lot of CAS (Close Air Support) training missions before going to the Sand Box. We conduct them in the desert regions of the U.S. to simulate the environment. If it's Afghanistan they're training for there's terrain to simulate too. CAS is the meat and potatoes of Marine Aviation. A majority of our air crew also go through FAC (Forward Air Controller) training also.

I'd assume that the AF or ANG... do the same thing.

To assume that a few Friendly Fire incidents or a couple of crappy units that your reservist friends were exposed to is the general state of the U.S. military is the same as me believing the stereotype that Brits have crappy teeth. There are a few bad apples out there but that's with every organization.

Your reservist buddies were probably working with the U.S. Army (they've been doing most of the work in Afghanistan) ... they've had to drastically lower their recruiting standards (aka Moral Waivers) so they'll have enough bodies for Iraqistan... So that may be the reason why your buddies saw some sh*tbags.

im all for american militarism and all but to be honest several people from around the world have said that the british military is the best trained on the planet. thats the reaspon we dont have many friendly fires. want proof?

back when britich empire was in its prime we had a very few troops all of the were very elitely trained. how do i know this to be fact? we conquered 1/3 of world. france and germany had much larger militaries. into the millions. in WW1 (schleiffan plan) germany invaded berlin and due to the treaty of London britain sent in 100 toops to defend it (our most elite at that time) and germany were beaten badly due to the sheer training of our troops. in WW" while most of Europ had been conquered we had not. we fought their troops of on our own. we defeated them in battle of britain.

ill admit we have had our losses. but almost everything we have been in we have come out victorious thanks to the efficiency of our military.

and by the way A,erica has a much better weapon than we do. its called the P-90

[tjoflojt]

ok, i'm not an expert, but isn't the p-90 a defensive weapon? aren't the m16/m4 more common in the US military?

[Coela Bellatore]

ok, i'm not an expert, but isn't the p-90 a defensive weapon? aren't the m16/m4 more common in the US military?

Yes the P-90 is meant for troops in non-combat roles who might need a weapon like drivers, tankers, cooks, ex. ex.

The p-90 is not used by any branch of the US military right now though, the M4/M16 is the standard weapon with the M249 for the SAW role and M9's for sidearms. That is standard, those of us in SF get cooler stuff like Mk48's and my Glock 22 I bought off an Afghani police chief.


I would say that the US, UK, Australia, NZ and Canada have the best militaries in the world. Ireland might be up there but they don't participate in any real wars. As for regular grunts the US, UK, and Canada have probably a similar level of combat application for active duty personnel.

NZ and Australia have kick as SF though.

[Hong3103]

back when britich empire was in its prime we had a very few troops all of the were very elitely trained. how do i know this to be fact? we conquered 1/3 of world. france and germany had much larger militaries. into the millions. in WW1 (schleiffan plan) germany invaded berlin and due to the treaty of London britain sent in 100 toops to defend it (our most elite at that time) and germany were beaten badly due to the sheer training of our troops. in WW" while most of Europ had been conquered we had not. we fought their troops of on our own. we defeated them in battle of britain.

Thanks for the history lesson....

[Coela Bellatore]

Thanks for the history lesson....

Thats amazing, it must be such a top secret battle that even British Royal Marine officers are not told about it?

But seriously that is not how the battle of the Marne went down.

I just talked with a BRM 2ndLt. and he said that for on level the British troops in A-Stan are better than the regular US troops but only because they send their best as they have much less people there. But I can agree with you on the crappy quality of the regular US military forces, I joined SF because I couldn't stand it, but all the other nationalities here say the same thing about their brethren.

[Commander Aegir]

Thats amazing, it must be such a top secret battle that even British Royal Marine officers are not told about it?

But seriously that is not how the battle of the Marne went down.

I just talked with a BRM 2ndLt. and he said that for on level the British troops in A-Stan are better than the regular US troops but only because they send their best as they have much less people there. But I can agree with you on the crappy quality of the regular US military forces, I joined SF because I couldn't stand it, but all the other nationalities here say the same thing about their brethren.

I was reading Col. Tim Collins book a while ago and he decribed the regular US soldiers as very brave and competent, but they lacked proper leadership. If only the British military got a fraction of the funding that the US forces get then we would be unstoppable. the US military is now 25 yrs ahead of any other in the world.

[Commander Thor]

America have begun work on energy weapons so yeah. id say they are ahead of us...

and if we did have their economy and they our training the American - British alliance would be unstoppable.

but beside the point. if this thread is about top inf wep we have today (not including sci-fi tech so no SG/ST/SW stuff) then the H&K MP5SD has to be in top 5 of automatic rifles and the 9mm sig is in top 5 of pistols

[Coela Bellatore]

America have begun work on energy weapons so yeah. id say they are ahead of us...

and if we did have their economy and they our training the American - British alliance would be unstoppable.

but beside the point. if this thread is about top inf wep we have today (not including sci-fi tech so no SG/ST/SW stuff) then the H&K MP5SD has to be in top 5 of automatic rifles and the 9mm sig is in top 5 of pistols

The MP5SD was developed in the 1960's and is an internally/integrally suppressed SUBMACHINE GUN! It is not an automatic rifle, it fires a pistol round which makes it NOT an automatic RIFLE of any kind. Because it is a submachine gun and an MP5 and because it is suppressed the bullet will be a small, light, slow-moving (thats what a suppressor does, it slows the bullet to below sonic speeds so there is no crack! when it exits the barrel) round. That makes it good for about one thing, quiet CQB infiltration in urban environments. That is it, at that it is superb and at everything else it fails.

On the SIG P22X series they are considered up in the top five by many people along with 1911, Glocks, USPs, and then a throw up between Berettas and Browning Hi-Powers. I find Sigs to have crappy ergo's but many swear by them. For me there are only three types of pistols I would carry - a 1911, a USP, or a Glock.

[Major V1125]

yet the MP5SD has been deemed the world's most expensive .380 SMG since the 9mm loses power because of it being suppressed. and the US Secret Service uses P90 instead of UZIs like back in the 80s, and some police departments and the Capitol Police uses the P90, yet slowly the PDW (like the P90 and MP7) are going to replace the SMG, until the day they perfect the pressured 9mm (making it armor piercing) the PDW is here to stay, think of it as the gap between SMG and Carbine. and i would say the top 5 automatic rifles would probably the AR15 series, G36 series, AK101 series, L85 series, and SIG 550 series, in my opinion are the best assault rifles.

plus i would say SIG pistols are among the best along with 1911 customs like Kimber or Para-Ordnance. but Berrettas, i would pick the PX4 series over the 92 series anyday. H&K USP series is among the best as well, same goes for Glock
SIG P220 i would say is probably the best .45 handgun after the 1911 series

[Coela Bellatore]

A PDW or a SMG is great for PD's and defense agencies but to us campaign boys they are pretty useless. On average they are a lot less reliable and have reduced accuracy and stopping power which is what we look for in firearms. I have to say that out of your top 5 the L85 and Sig 550 probably don't belong. The L85 was absolute crap till H&K redid them in 2002 so we will see how they do. I have heard the Sig 55X series is nice but nobody has adopted it outside of Switzerland, its like their tanks, amazing there but nothing special anywhere else. I find that the Tavor and HK416 are the cutting edge of rifles.

Glock 21's are pretty beast, I'm stuck between them and 1911's for best 45 ACP pistol.

[Major V1125]

A PDW or a SMG is great for PD's and defense agencies but to us campaign boys they are pretty useless. On average they are a lot less reliable and have reduced accuracy and stopping power which is what we look for in firearms. I have to say that out of your top 5 the L85 and Sig 550 probably don't belong. The L85 was absolute crap till H&K redid them in 2002 so we will see how they do. I have heard the Sig 55X series is nice but nobody has adopted it outside of Switzerland, its like their tanks, amazing there but nothing special anywhere else. I find that the Tavor and HK416 are the cutting edge of rifles.

Glock 21's are pretty beast, I'm stuck between them and 1911's for best 45 ACP pistol.

well you would most likely rather bring a PDW instead of a SMG into a CQC battle, if your not bringing a Carbine of course. yet the PDW like the MP7 is a good replacement for a sidearm, the German Army uses the MP7 to great effect in place of their 9mm USP. hmmm actually when i do think about it the L85 had its major flaws, i think i forgot the STYER AUG series, lol in place of the L85 series. yet the SIG 550 series is actually a great carbine rifle, the only problem is the heavy price tag on them since its from SIG SAUER, which their weapons are pretty expensive...H&K has great weaponary plus the 416 does look pretty nice, Delta is currently using them instead of the M4. still i would want the US military to adopt the 6.8x43mm and perhaps the Bushmaster ACR (note:i saw the weapon system before even hearing about it on Future Weapons) Tavor is also a great weapon system, love IMI tech. the Tavor is really compact yet it can still reach over 300m easy.
hmm Glock 21, sure thats a great handgun, but if you want a solid .45 Para-Ordnance P14 all the way, or maybe even Kimber Customs would do, hell get a Para-Ordnance Warthog sub-compact .45 pistol loaded with 8-10 rounds, beats the Glock 30.

[Womble]

I have to say that out of your top 5 the L85 and Sig 550 probably don't belong. The L85 was absolute crap till H&K redid them in 2002 so we will see how they do. I have heard the Sig 55X series is nice but nobody has adopted it outside of Switzerland, its like their tanks, amazing there but nothing special anywhere else. I find that the Tavor and HK416 are the cutting edge of rifles.

Sig rifles are the best thing that's ever happened to an AK-type gas system. They HAVE been adopted outside of Switzerland, mainly by elite anti-terror units in Europe and by some US Federal agencies. Their main problem is that all that Swiss precision manufacturing results in fantastic quality at a prohibitive cost. The things are just too expensive for most armies.

I've handled the Tavor, and it's excellent. Disassembly is something of a pain though.

[Major V1125]

Sig rifles are the best thing that's ever happened to an AK-type gas system. They HAVE been adopted outside of Switzerland, mainly by elite anti-terror units in Europe and by some US Federal agencies. Their main problem is that all that Swiss precision manufacturing results in fantastic quality at a prohibitive cost. The things are just too expensive for most armies.

I've handled the Tavor, and it's excellent. Disassembly is something of a pain though.

yawp SIG is known for their quality and reliability, but of course those qualities come with a hefty price, the SIG 552 rifle is a very good 5.56mm rifle, the US ARMY even considered adopting those to replace the M4, the SIG SG 556 is also a great weapon system as well, uses STANAG magazines. and as i said before, SIG pistols are among the best in the world as well. we should have adopted the SIG P226 instead of the Berretta M92FS as the M9 back in the 80s...=[

hmm Tavor is an excellent weapon, you actually handled one? interesting

[Stewart5]

im all for american militarism and all but to be honest several people from around the world have said that the british military is the best trained on the planet. thats the reaspon we dont have many friendly fires. want proof?

back when britich empire was in its prime we had a very few troops all of the were very elitely trained. how do i know this to be fact? we conquered 1/3 of world. france and germany had much larger militaries. into the millions. in WW1 (schleiffan plan) germany invaded berlin and due to the treaty of London britain sent in 100 toops to defend it (our most elite at that time) and germany were beaten badly due to the sheer training of our troops. in WW" while most of Europ had been conquered we had not. we fought their troops of on our own. we defeated them in battle of britain.

ill admit we have had our losses. but almost everything we have been in we have come out victorious thanks to the efficiency of our military.

and by the way A,erica has a much better weapon than we do. its called the P-90

..........what? Next time u say 'want proof?', provide some? Nice examples, but something slightly more up to date would have been nice.
An thhe P-90 sucks.

America have begun work on energy weapons so yeah. id say they are ahead of us...

and if we did have their economy and they our training the American - British alliance would be unstoppable.

but beside the point. if this thread is about top inf wep we have today (not including sci-fi tech so no SG/ST/SW stuff) then the H&K MP5SD has to be in top 5 of automatic rifles and the 9mm sig is in top 5 of pistols

The thread is about all infantry wepaons in gateverse, human or other. I made it. i should know.

Thats amazing, it must be such a top secret battle that even British Royal Marine officers are not told about it?

But seriously that is not how the battle of the Marne went down.

I just talked with a BRM 2ndLt. and he said that for on level the British troops in A-Stan are better than the regular US troops but only because they send their best as they have much less people there. But I can agree with you on the crappy quality of the regular US military forces, I joined SF because I couldn't stand it, but all the other nationalities here say the same thing about their brethren.

If u take it ratio, mate, we have most of our active combat troops out there at any given time. And we send out line infantry, we send out SF, we send out RMC, we send out territorials too. It's not just our 'very best' that get sent out.
And ever heard of quailty over quantity? Worked against Napoleaons mob. Worked against the Russians. Seemed to work against the Kaiser's Germany, too. The Argies. See a pattern?

[Major V1125]

..........what? Next time u say 'want proof?', provide some? Nice examples, but something slightly more up to date would have been nice.
An thhe P-90 sucks.

The thread is about all infantry wepaons in gateverse, human or other. I made it. i should know.

If u take it ratio, mate, we have most of our active combat troops out there at any given time. And we send out line infantry, we send out SF, we send out RMC, we send out territorials too. It's not just our 'very best' that get sent out.
And ever heard of quailty over quantity? Worked against Napoleaons mob. Worked against the Russians. Seemed to work against the Kaiser's Germany, too. The Argies. See a pattern?

lol the P90 is a good PDW, i would choose it over any SMG except the MP5, which will remain my favorite weapon even though its pushing close to 50 years. XD
yeah the UK is good at what they do, end of discussion XD