Staff Cannon vs Railguns and missiles

[Mister Oragahn]

Ok. Yeah I know. It doesn't really matter now we can take them out with probably a single shot from our Asgard plot rays.

Yes, from a writer perspective, I can't even start to understand what's exciting about the Asgard rays. You are imaginative when you're limited.
The rays are just instawin pew pew lazorz, in any occasion. That stuff is only exciting for my brother's 5 years old child.
Barely.

[Buba uognarf]

Yes, from a writer perspective, I can't even start to understand what's exciting about the Asgard rays. You are imaginative when you're limited.
The rays are just instawin pew pew lazorz, in any occasion. That stuff is only exciting for my brother's 5 years old child.
Barely.

It would have been better IMO to give us maybe standard Asgard pulse weapons. So we could still hand with Hive ships and possibly Aurora's but not have the firepower to destroy any ship we want in a few shots.

[Mister Oragahn]

It would have been better IMO to give us maybe standard Asgard pulse weapons. So we could still hand with Hive ships and possibly Aurora's but not have the firepower to destroy any ship we want in a few shots.

It would have been even better not to make the Ori so powerful (and later on limited and retarded) or keep the Asgards there for them to handle the new weapons, without making them easy victories though.

[Major V1125]

u serious??? dude railguns can take down a Ha'tak easily, if you all would remember the Battle for Antarctica, railguns and missiles took out a significant portion of Anubis's armada, and that was before beam weapons and the use of nukes. and remember 302s can engage a whole Ha'tak and can take it out easily by their small numbers, like a squadron of 8-16? and so getting back to the topic...staff cannons are about the equivalent of a standard ship-to-ship missile so i think they're at equal power in such a way. and railgun rounds are believed to damage ships head on or shields so without the beam weapon upgrades we would still fare better than a Ha'tak. XD yeaaah whasup whasupppp

[Xarn]

I dont know whether I should bother responding, but...

No they didnt, unless of course you think few gliders and alkesh or two (I am not even sure whether there were any) are significant portion of anubis armada.

[Zalenka]

u serious??? dude railguns can take down a Ha'tak easily, if you all would remember the Battle for Antarctica, railguns and missiles took out a significant portion of Anubis's armada, and that was before beam weapons and the use of nukes. and remember 302s can engage a whole Ha'tak and can take it out easily by their small numbers, like a squadron of 8-16? and so getting back to the topic...staff cannons are about the equivalent of a standard ship-to-ship missile so i think they're at equal power in such a way. and railgun rounds are believed to damage ships head on or shields so without the beam weapon upgrades we would still fare better than a Ha'tak. XD yeaaah whasup whasupppp

The earth ships didn't have rail guns back then. Also the weapons we did have only took on Alkesh and gliders. By the time Prometheus went to engage the motherships it had lost its weapons.

[Major V1125]

are u serious dude! we did have railguns! watch the episode again those were definitely railguns! why would a 303 go in battle with only MISSILES? now thats WACK! and indeed we may have ran out of ordnance by the time we engage the bigger fleet but dont u think after engaging that many enemy ships would all add up to the equivalent of a Ha'tak or two?? XD whasup whasuppp

[Xarn]

are u serious dude! we did have railguns! watch the episode again those were definitely railguns! why would a 303 go in battle with only MISSILES? now thats WACK! and indeed we may have ran out of ordnance by the time we engage the bigger fleet but dont u think after engaging that many enemy ships would all add up to the equivalent of a Ha'tak or two?? XD whasup whasuppp

The ship didnt run out of ordnance, but its weapon systems were taken offline by some of the hits. (The shields werent faring much better)

From what I remember, "that many enemy ships" would add up to few dozens of gliders and a alkesh or two... add the fact that 302s were dogfighting with the gliders and it wont show exactly stellar result ^.^ (In taking out the enemy that is, its main task, to protect SG1 till they get to the Ancient weapon platform, they managed reasonably well.)

[Major V1125]

but still we would still fare better of against cannons with our railguns and missiles, the thing that pisses me and confuses me about the show is the tech that sometimes contradicts one another, but its all good though lol but yeah staff cannons, please, its like the equivalent of our standard ship-to-ship missiles. and our railguns do more damage to the constant onslaught of our ships yeaaah. XD whasup whasuppp

[Stewart5]

the 302, because in fallen oniell was able to take out multiple death gliders single handedly and since the 302s have a hyperspace window generator, they can make very short jumps, which was eneough to bypass the goaulds shields. no glider can do that.

Although I agree that a 302 would hoose a glider, the reason O'neil did so well is because its O'neil. Plot shields on three, people...one....two....three....

[Finger13]

I am just wondering who has the greater Fire power, a 304 or a Ha'tak? Before the Asgard upgrades of course

60 staff cannons vs 32 railguns and Mark missiles.

And if the Staff cannons are stronger than the railguns and Missiles
would it be enough? Considering that a 304 have supperior shields

Or do a Ha'tak have both lower fire power and worse shields? meaning they wouldn't stand a chance?

So my ultimate question is probably who would win. An unupgraded 304 or a ha'tak?

EDIT: This is totaly oftopic but, does it take some time from when you post a thread to when you can find it?

It depends on how you look at it. The Daedalus could take fire from a Ha'tak for ages. I would imagine that the energy blasts from Hive Ships are as powerful, if not more powerful than a Ha'tak, and yet the Daedalus withstands fire from what, 9 Hive Ships? For several minutes too. In that regard, we could just sit there and pound away at a Ha'tak for a long time, since our shields own theirs.

But as far as weaponry, I figure we'd have to employ a similar tactic to the one that Caldwell uses in attacking the Hive Ship in No Man's Land, which was to jump from hyperspace and unload everything that the Daedalus has as quickly as possible. With any luck it would catch them with their shields down, especially with the Odyssey's cloak. And if not, it would hit the shields of the Ha'tak relentlessly, hopefully disabling them. But rail guns wouldn't be much good at all until the shields were down. Some gate busters simultaneously impacting the shield might do the trick.

Now with the Beam Weapons, the battle would be a joke. One shot would probably pass straight through a Ha'tak's shield.

A hatak probably doesnt have 60 cannons, more like ~12-18 (unless the others are smaller, like for antifighter-alkesh defense), a few on all sides. Although i dont agree about the modifieng part. Sure, theoreticly we could modify the missiles to be much more effective (although the multigigaton one used naquadria, which isnt that common, and also, we only ever increased our nuke yields, not normal missiles), but then we can equaly say that the gould (they are certainly smart enough) could make a point defense to intercept our, in comparison, slowly moving missiles; the grace aliens certanly didnt have much trouble nullifieng several missiles in a second.
IMHO, the gould weapons are far superior (didnt ra call our nuke 'primitive'?);
BTW, in S1 finale of SG1, the nukes didnt even detonate, when they hit the hataks shields, did they?

If the ships were actually real and the 304's were not limited in firepower (this is referring to them before the beam weapons) for the sake of plots and scripts, the Daedalus could easily overwhelm any Hive Ship or Ha'tak by simply taking several nukes and using our beaming technology. Yes, shields and the Wraith's countermeasures prevent us from beaming inside of the ship, but not right outside of it. Beam in a couple of GateBusters as close to the Ha'tak shields as possible and watch the fireworks.

It'd be even easier to take out a Hive this way.

[Major V1125]

indeed...

[Commander Thor]

he has got a point. you know we could ditch the energy weapons add more missiles upgrade them with energy sensors and a detonator to detonate just before contact with the shield focusing as much of the explosion on the shields as possible. and i think i can remeber SG1 beaming aboard a Ha'tak to recue Thor from Anubis. i may be wrong on that one.

[Mister Oragahn]

u serious??? dude railguns can take down a Ha'tak easily

Nope, they'd barely tickle their shields.

... if you all would remember the Battle for Antarctica, railguns and missiles took out a significant portion of Anubis's armada

Only missiles were used, not railguns, and 3 of those sort of sidewinders were still needed to take down an Al'kesh, including a shot near the engines.
It's not like such Goa'uld ships are anywhere close to decent military vessels either. For the vast majority of them, their range is pathetic, their power as well, so much for their defenses.
There's no glory in taking them down.

and remember 302s can engage a whole Ha'tak and can take it out easily by their small numbers...

This never happened, unless I missed an episode. A 302 would need to bypass shields first and still deliver at least one Goa'uld buster (1 GT) or more (1.2 GT) at point blank range.

staff cannons are about the equivalent of a standard ship-to-ship missile so i think they're at equal power in such a way.

Equal power to what?
Such energy cannons were rated at 200 megatons at least in There But For The Grace Of God, but the death toll figure mentionned by O'neill later on in the episode, 1.5 billion, implies that another ship came in and attacked, and delivered far more firepower than Apophis did, either because of the possibility of doing so, or because Apophis was taking his time and dialed down his weapons. The evidence of this is that only some regions in Europe and only small areas of the US east coast were destroyed at that time, which absolutely fails to fit with the death toll figure.

... and railgun rounds are believed to damage ships head on or shields so without the beam weapon upgrades we would still fare better than a Ha'tak. XD yeaaah whasup whasupppp

Yeah well that's just wrong. The railguns are good penetrators against armour, if we assume the bullets are strong, but they're hardly fired at speeds which would make them powerful enough to even compete with a fraction of the energy delivered by staff cannons. We know this because of the muzzle velocity of railguns, observed speeds and how heavy a bullet can be before it stops being practical.

Eventually, the railguns used in Atlantis, possibly toned down because of concerns about atmospheric effects on nearby personnel, had muzzle velocities roughly within the +1 km/s, which is lower than the current real railgun prototypes, albeit much smaller than these prototypes. For their transportable size (notice that they can be easily carried around by vehicles if needs be), they still pack a decent firepower, but the muzzle energy of the lantean railguns would be in the two digit megajoule range. More powerful railguns, mounted on a 304, would have, eventually, the capacity to spend the equivalent of hundreds or thousands of megajoules for each projectile. You'll need a hell of a concentrated and cumulative rain against a Ha'tak's shields to ever start becoming noticed as a minor spec.
A Ha'tak could use its shields and inertia dampeners to survive a complete free fall impact into the ocean. Considering the mass of the ship and its speed, and the fact that water behaves like a solid wall past a certain speed, and that the Ha'tak survived rather well safe for a minor breach in the lower levels, it's rather clear that you're going to need a hell of a punch to get through.

[Stewart5]

Well, laydies and gentlemen, we seem to have our answer!! hahaha

But seriously, the ha'tak is possibly the most embarrassing vessel ever. Its a flying pyramid!!!!