What can beat the Andromeda Ascendant?

[thekillman]

it was already said.

and i dont get how they manage 8 missiles per second.

how many does it even have???

[Smallz]

I dont know but I would say tons. All andromeda needs is an astroid and can make them herself. She also has mines, hunter seeker drones, defensive missles and ap cannons. I am sure there are more but I cant remember right now.

I dont know if this has been posted but here is some specs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androme...ndant#Armament

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons...Smart_missiles

[RubberJesus]

Protoss Motherships from Starcraft, they are the size of Atlantis and their main gun can destroy planets.

[Ouroboros]

Physics, perhaps? I don't see anything in star trek to suggest that phasers do not work fundamentally different from lasers regarding speed and coherency (i.e., dissipation). Thus, the beam should stay focused and strong for a considerable distance. As for "slow moving glowy crap" the phasers and borg weapons are certainly not depicted in such a maner, though Klingon and Romulan main weapons do look more like SW/SG than the phasers do. However, even in the SG universe we've seen examples of weapons that look more laser/phaserish than the "slow moving glowy crap" pulse weapons. In fact, the Ori beams look pretty slow, but Odyssey could be argued to move at c. The Asuran satellite weapon sure looked to, as well as the Ancient laserish defense platform.

It's all still slow moving glowy crap. Sure phasers beams might seem to mve a bit faster but in the context of space combat ranges they're still incredible slow. You can see a phaser beam moving from point A to point B with your eyes. That right there tells you it's nowhere near to being a lightspeed weapon.

It looks like the whole Andromeda rules all argument comes down to this... the Andromeda has to continuously move randomly at relativistic speeds without stopping, pretty much ever. And it doesn't look like that on screen because a blur would not make for good CGI, right?

Excuse me if I still think that's just... silly.

Well I personally think the idea of "space battleships" that sit stationary a few kilometers apart and fire slow moving glowy crap back and forth as their choice method of combat is infinitely sillier.

it was already said.

and i dont get how they manage 8 missiles per second.

how many does it even have???

Think of each of the Andromeda's "missile launchers" as more of a fully automatic machine gun that just happens to fire guided missiles instead of bullets.

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

look guys no matter how you put it : oddysey would stand a chance. but in your terribly narrowminded heads, only supreme and utter ownage counts as a win. none of you ever incalculated the unsurity factor. the replicators would win, but then i say the MW ones, not the asurans.
MW ones would just take a hell of a beating with their shields, then use their knowledge to adapt and follow it, take it over and use it themselves

If you'll kindly go to the Daedalus vs. Andromeda you'll see a bucket load of calcs I did to figure out the probability. Before we knew beaming could be jammed on EM frequencies, it was a 50% chance either way. Now that 304s can be shown to not be able to use beaming, it plummets to 0.0000000.... AKA, 0%.

And the very few scenarios where a 304 wins involve massive advantages and the most excellent reaction time and tactics ever on their part and utter stupidity on Andromeda's part.

[NoobTau'ri]

All of this talk about Star Trek...am I the only one who thinks that it is ridiculous that, in the Stargate universe, Humans from Earth in the year 2008 have a vastly superior level of technology than the Humans in the Star Trek Universe have in the 24th Century? I mean, the Star Trek show takes place over 300 years from now, and while Humans are depicted as capable of interstellar travel, they take years to explore a very small corner of the galaxy. Now compare it to Humans in the Stargate universe in the year 2008, who can travel between galaxies in minutes, have energy-matter converters, time-dilation field technology and weaponry that can slice in half with ease huge ships that are far more powerful than the ones the Enteprise fights again, and does it with much lesser difficulty than the Enterprise is able to destroy the much smaller and less powerful enemy ships it faces in it's universe. We have in the Stargate show technology that is at least 10,000 years ahead of what real Earth has in the year 2008, and maybe as much as 100,000. I get redded all the time by the fan boys for pointing out this, but I won't stop doing it because I just can't stand this wank because it is simply way, way too over the top. I still like a little bit of realism and actual science in my science-fiction.

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

Well, it's mostly a difference of what's common in both universes. But I will agree that Stargate's gone too far.

[thekillman]

I get redded all the time by the fan boys for pointing out this

lemme ad some green then

personally, i think redding is a great act of agression. if you red someone, its clear you dont like him, or he said something you totally absolutely disagree with. for me, its greening or not greenning

[Jeffala]

All of this talk about Star Trek...am I the only one who thinks that it is ridiculous that, in the Stargate universe, Humans from Earth in the year 2008 have a vastly superior level of technology than the Humans in the Star Trek Universe have in the 24th Century?

Earth and the Federation have only been developing their technology for a few hundred years ("Little Green Men" of DS9 mentioned Quark wanting to give warp technology to the Ferengi so that they'd have it before the Vulcans and that was in 1947, which is just over 100 years before First Contact, though the Vulcans travelled to P'Jem prior to 9th Century BC though it wasn't stated that they did so via warp technology).

Hell, the Borg only controlled "a few systems" ("Dragons Teeth", VOY) in 1484, 900 years prior to Voyager.

The technology in Stargate that Earth possesses has been in development for 50,000,000 years in the case of Ancient technology and 30,000+ years in the case of Asgard technology.

[thekillman]

i personally think we deserved it. beaming tech is cool and usefull. and i love the asgard beams. i disagree with the ones on the deady/apollo. oddy was ok, ZPM+core, +original ones, well OK. i understand that. but deadalus+ normal reactor+ earth made asgard beams= instakill on asurans. too far. phoenix had a computercore, and thus an asgard powercore. so its obvious that it did more than deadalus.

IMO:

Odyssey: 8 shot kill on ori ship, 4 shot kill on asuran aurora, 6 shot kill on hives
Phoenix: 12 shot kill on ori ship, 6 shot kill on asuran aurora, 8 shot kill on hives,
Deadalus: 20 shot kill on ori ship, 10 shot kill on asuran aurora, 17 shot kill on hives
apollo: 20 shot kill on ori ship, 10 shot kill on asuran aurora, 17 shot kill on hives

this wouldve been realistic, acceptable, and still powerfull enough for plot reasons.

but

Oddy: 6 shot kill ori ship
phoenix: 3 shot kill hive
deadalus: 1 shot kill asuran aurora[one blast cut it in half]
apollo: 1 shot kill asuran aurora

thats ridiculous. 6-8 for oddy is ok? but what do we have to expect from it against hives?

"sir, 12 hives approaching"

"how far is the odyssey"
"just dropped out"
"colonel, intercept the hives"

"ok"
* oddy drops out*
"open fire all beam cannons"
'ackowledged, opening fire"
" sir with one volley we killed them all"
"good job '"

[Ouroboros]

The difference with Trek to is that aside from a few examples they had to earn their technology, and it wasn't until later that they started to pull significantly ahead of their competition (Berman/Braga wank). The Vulcans helped them out a bit at the start but the Federation took hundreds of years to establish and even after all that work rival powers like the Klingons, Romulans, Borg and Dominion all seemed like credible threats that could destroy it all.

Compare the way TNG treated Romulans with the way SGA treats the Wraith for example. When a warbird suddenly decloaked in TNG everyone **** their pants and you got that dramatic ominous music and red alert sirens as it closed on the Enterprise and the Romulan commander appeared on the screen to taunt Picard. They constantly avoided throwing down with those things because in Trek you couldn't always count on automatically having the biggest best guns and Picard knew that if he ever really got into it with a Warbird it was at best 50/50 that the people under his command would live to see tomorrow. Furthermore he knew that even if he won, with his ship likely crippled and barely holding together and hundreds of his crew dead afterward, there would be massive political consequences with the Romulan Empire itself that might well trigger a conflict that would cost millions or billions of more lives.

Not only did Stargate's humans not have to earn any of their technology, it's all gifted, borrowed or stolen from aliens, but they can apparently now always rely on being militarily superior to their opponents, who logically should be superior to them. Then you add in the fact that "shoot it/kill it" is never really depicted as being the wrong approach when it comes to dealing with potential aliens. The scenarios are never set up to be more complicated than "try to kill them until there's no more left to kill or some sort of technobabble comes along and fixes the problem".

Remember TNG's "encounter at Farpoint" episode. I'd love to see Shep and company work their way through that one. What ever would they do when the Asgard beams and P90s couldn't make the "evil" Q go away and stop tormenting them.

[NoobTau'ri]

Remember TNG's "encounter at Farpoint" episode. I'd love to see Shep and company work their way through that one. What ever would they do when the Asgard beams and P90s couldn't make the "evil" Q go away and stop tormenting them.

The Earth team would probably just use the Ancient ascension machine. Everyone ascends, an ascended army is formed and Q is toast. Remember that in Stargate the "Fifth Race" is an utterly invincible force of doom, and no way no how would the Stargate writers accept to do a crossover episode with Star Trek where this basic premisse is nullified. If a crossover episode were done between Stargate and Star Trek and Q were the opposition to the SG team, for the first time ever the omnipotent, omniscient being from the Q Continuum would meet it's annihilation at the hands of the even more omnipotent "Fifth Race"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NoobTau'ri]

Oh yeah, and the Asgard tech ruined Stargate completely. Sure, it was already bad in SG-1 with the occasional Ancient device annihilating entire races of formidable foes(think the Dakara device sealing the replicators' fate). However, the difference between the Ancient tech we found in SG-1 and the Asgard tech we got in "Unending" is that the Ancient tech was so rare and sparse in the MW Galaxy that we only got help from it occasionally. Most of the time we had to rely on our cunning, subterfuge and deceit to defeat out opponents. The amount of Asgard tech we got in "Unending", however, was enormous, rangin from shields and hyperdrives to weaponry, matter-energy converters and time-dilation devices. It was not one device that could help us against a specific threat on a specific situation, but a complete array of technologies that gives us a vast advantage over most rivals.

The problem that I have with the Asgard gifts from "Unending" is two fold. First, it is the problem that Asgard tech is simply way too advanced, which gives us too much of an advantage over our rivals, which cheapens them, and secondly, exactly because it is so advanced, we shouldn't be able to even understand it, let alone reverse-engineer it. The fact that the Asgard can cross galaxies in minutes, sink stars into black holes and dilate time suggests that they are technologically tens of thousands, maybe as much as one hundred thousand years ahead of us technologically. Again, the Asgard tech is clearly vastly more advanced than that of Star Trek, Second Generation, which is passed 500 years from now. While they take years to explore a small corner of a galaxy, the Asgard travel between galaxies in minutes. Realistically, reverse-engineering tech that is even a single century ahead of ours should be a colossal feat. So how can we even understand, let alone reverse-engineer, tech that is at least 10,000 years ahead of ours? It would be like Neanderthals reverse-engineering computers or cell phones. Seriously, guys, if you use your brains and think, you will realise just how absurd the premisse of an alliance between a species that can compress the gravity of a star and turn it into a black hole and travel between galaxies in minutes and a species that is unable to travel to it's neighbor planet and still uses dead animals as it's main energy source is.

[IMPALER]

if the oddy has the time dialation field then im sure that they could use it to beat the andromeda, they managed to use it against virual destruction and got away to fight another day.

[Orii]

It's all still slow moving glowy crap. Sure phasers beams might seem to mve a bit faster but in the context of space combat ranges they're still incredible slow. You can see a phaser beam moving from point A to point B with your eyes. That right there tells you it's nowhere near to being a lightspeed weapon.

You're kidding, right? I can't think of a single sci-fi show or movie that has every showed any energy weapon wavefront move at the speed of light. There's a pretty obvious reason for this... CGI. Who wants to see a ship blown up by an invisible line that works instantaneously as soon as someone presses the fire button? Because that's what it would really "look" like. Even in that context, however, phasers mover extremely fast compared to all of the slow glowing pulse weapons that are seen elsehwere. It is obvious to anyone with a brain that this is depicting a weapon that moves like a laser. Hell, even the name gives it away.

So now you're just being insanely ridiculous. You're not really serious, are you? Are you really trying to claim that CGI meant for the sole purpose of entertainment trumps actual physics? For the slow ori beam weapons... sure, I'll give you that. They make them move slow enough so that it is obvious they aren't a light-speed weapon. But phasers? Please tell me you're just trying to be a jackass on purpose, and that you don't really believe that?