Pre Unending 304 Vs Hat'ak

[jonos101]

The humans are the stars of the show. They'll win.

Honestly, thousands of years of scavenged and/or created technology including shields and energy weapons should punk the 304 after a while. Unless they explode their entire complement of nukes at equidistant points around the shields...

Question: Exactly how much damage can railguns cause shields? Can matter moving at anything less than a considerable % of light speed really do any damage to shields? I'd assume so, but not in the small quantities of ammo [relatively speaking] the 304s have.

who say we have small amounts of ammo??? a 304 is small compared to a ha'tak but is still a big ship. if u see the seige part 2 u will see the mags for the rail guns are quite small and u could fit alot in a 304. as for the question i think a 304 would win coz of it sheilds and speed. also a nuke is roughly as effective as one shot from a ha'tak IMO and we carry a fair few nukes

i also think our 16 302s could take out the death gliders from a ha'tak just coz they have targeting systems

[Ebeneezer_Goode]

304 rams Ha'Tak. 304 wins.

[fugiman]

304 rams Ha'Tak. 304 wins.

That wouldn't work

We have seen the 304s shields fail on numerous times and have to retreat so why would ramming work?

Also I hate the fact that the PTB have made the Ha'tak class vessel weaker and weaker as the seasons have gone on

[RepliVeggie]

I disagree with you buba

A ha'tak has far superior weapons to that of a BC-304 and if ha'taks can take out a beliskner shields then they are more then a match for a 304s.

Also our rail guns did minimal damage but did it even look like the ha'taks were phased? The captains on the lucain alliance ships didn't look worried at all. So when the quote "minimal damage" is used I laugh at it because their seemed to be no signs at all of any damage that threatened the ha'taks. Also as someone pointed out as long as the ha'tak got out of the way of a Nuke then it wouldn't effect them and seen in camelot the Jaffa actually tried to move ships so they do know that tactic so if they kept that up then the 304 would be doomed

The Beliskner was an antiquated Asgard ship. The ones that came to retrieve Thor would have destroyed Osiris' ship easily.

The Ha'tak is far superior to a preunending 304, and those who claim the shields on a 304 are better then the Super Ha'tak are wrong we can't even power our shields to full strength before unending without a ZPM so the Ha'tak would win one on one

It isn't that they aren't powered to full. It's that in Stargate the more powerful the power source the more powerful the shields or weapons.

[2ndgenerationalteran]

Each round of the rail gun should impact at near 2,900 Joules, and they go in bursts. The nuke detonated in No Man's land should have been millions of times more powerful than a burst of rail gun fire, but typically the missles go splat on a shield without doing anymore damage caused by kinetic energy, i honestly dont know why they fire nukes against shielded ships they probably would get more damage done with giant metal slugs.

The 304s dont have Beliskner class shields they have the shields seen on more recent ships like the oniell and daniel jackson. The Beliskner class shields were of one design and the Oniells were of a different, it seems as if the same powersource was used on both vessels. Therefore the 304 would last a considerably long time, but i honestly feel if they can stand to fire at eachother for that long the Hatak would win. 16 302s against several squadrons of Death Gliders doesnt look that hopeful, in the battle over anartica we seem to have lost an equal amount to the gould. After they wipe out our 302s the 304 would have to face those as excessive weapons fire. And the weapons fire of our rail gun seems less effective than their plasma bolts of their canons.

[wise one]

if only carter made her shield modulator missile things she said she would in season1 or 2 cant remember

[Darien]

Pre-Unending 304 vs Ha'tak would be a draw. 304s had superior defence capabilities with their more powerful shields and better manouverability. They are also smaller targets. Ha'taks have better weaponry but weaker shields. In the fighter department the 302s have the edge because of their guided missiles that can take out gliders before they enter weapons range. On the other hand gliders have numbers on their sides so that's a draw again.

[Alterran1.]

I have recently watched The Lost City

There I noticed that when the Prometheus leaves the hole in the ice to head for Anubis's flag ship it actually does launch at least one missile.

This missile strikes the hull of Anubis flagship without from what I can tell any shield effect.
This is before O'Neill launches the drones

The effect is negligible due to the immense size of Anubis's ship however it lends to the possibility that the shiled modulator was indeed created.

It would also explain in the said episode why General Hammond and the other General where confident they could give the two Hatac warships that come in earlier a run for their money.

[tainor]

Actually all 304s and 303 had nukes equipped with a frequency modulator chip. This is why a 304 is more then a match for a Ha'Tak. I think that in the eppie Ethon when the Prometheus got destoyed when they lunched the f302s they had equipped their missles with the shield modulator frequency chip, but they were uneffective against Ori shields. I think that they only work on Go'uld shields.
So a 304 will destroy a Ha'Tak easy, with it's superior shields and speed and shields by passing nukes.

Tain

[Buba uognarf]

I disagree with you buba

A ha'tak has far superior weapons to that of a BC-304 and if ha'taks can take out a beliskner shields then they are more then a match for a 304s.

Also our rail guns did minimal damage but did it even look like the ha'taks were phased? The captains on the lucain alliance ships didn't look worried at all. So when the quote "minimal damage" is used I laugh at it because their seemed to be no signs at all of any damage that threatened the ha'taks. Also as someone pointed out as long as the ha'tak got out of the way of a Nuke then it wouldn't effect them and seen in camelot the Jaffa actually tried to move ships so they do know that tactic so if they kept that up then the 304 would be doomed

Even the Prometheus with its underpowered less advanced Asgard shields can withstand over a hundred hits from Anubis's super mothership with heavily depleted shields already. So I think a BC-304 with its vastly superior shields could sit there for quite a while against a single Ha'tak. Minimal damage with a second or 2s worth of fire, it stands to reason that if rail guns can cause even minute damage that over several minutes of fighting the Ha'taks shields will fail.

What if the BC-304 keeps moving? If it keeps out of the way of the Ha'taks largest amount of weapons it could last even longer. If the Ha'tak uses tactics so could the BC-304, beam nukes close to the shields with a split second timed fuse. Even if the Ha'tak is moving, beam several nukes around it in its path.

[fugiman]

Why is everyone assuming here? You are all speculating on the 304 capabilities, we have never seen the shield mod at all and after that one season heard nothing of it, also we have seen on numerous occasions that the 304 retreats never has it ever been shown to do major damage to a ha'tak

As for beaming the nuke near a ship, why have we never been able to do it before? Because we can't and if we could we would so until I see it I don't believe it. Because then we would do it against the Wraith but we can't

So the Ha'tak has superior weapons to the preunending weapons so until we see a 304 ever hurt a ha'tak with major damage?

Also when it comes to lock on weapons we have seen the needle threader target a weapon system and have the plasma actually change diertcion and take out the defense system of hator




If you see the episode the plasma blast actually moves

[Buba uognarf]

Why is everyone assuming here? You are all speculating on the 304 capabilities, we have never seen the shield mod at all and after that one season heard nothing of it, also we have seen on numerous occasions that the 304 retreats never has it ever been shown to do major damage to a ha'tak

Beliskner shields were the same color as the shields of the Prometheus, the Deadalus has blue shields the same as the later Asgard ships. Not only that Prometheus's shields were pierced without trouble by the satellite in Ethon the BC-304 shields can take 2 direct hits from the more powerful Ori mothership beam weapons.

Never in a one on one situation, we've seen numerous occasions where the Prometheus has challenged Ha'taks or been said to be able to challenge them effectively. Stands to reason a more powerful version could do better doesn't it?

As for beaming the nuke near a ship, why have we never been able to do it before? Because we can't and if we could we would so until I see it I don't believe it. Because then we would do it against the Wraith but we can't

We can't do it to the Wraith because they jam it it obviously extends around the ship too. Why couldn't we beam a nuke into space? Its obviously possible if we can beam a ship from A to B the fact B is in space will make no difference. We've never been in a situation against a Ha'tak where it would be wise to engage e.g. never one on one.

So the Ha'tak has superior weapons to the preunending weapons so until we see a 304 ever hurt a ha'tak with major damage?

There's never been an extended battle so no we haven't. But in a few seconds or so of firing we were able to cause minimal damage, minimal damage is damage if the damage was so small the Ha'tak could take it all day they wouldn't have mentioned damage at all.

Also when it comes to lock on weapons we have seen the needle threader target a weapon system and have the plasma actually change diertcion and take out the defense system of hator




If you see the episode the plasma blast actually moves

Never seen it in capital ship combat. Nothing shows that the Ha'tak weapons can follow a target. Maybe the wind blew that plasma blast towards the defense system Or maybe it was a new type of weapon.

[Tain]

I would also like to point out that missiles are a big MINUS in space combat, not a plus. A ship relying on missiles is at a distinct disadvantage (like the 302s), especially at long range. Because their is no atmosphere for maneuvering fins to bite into like on earth, missiles could not travel fast, otherwise they would not be able to overcome their forward momentum fast enough to turn to hit *anything*. In order to hit anything they would have to be either 1: Very slow or 2. Big, and mostly engine. Which means they are either easy to avoid, or easy to shoot down.

So, in reality, space missiles are a short range weapon, not a long range weapon, and the range advantage goes to the death gliders and their directed energy weapons. I mean seriously.. Why do you think *every* major space faring civilization we run into that uses fighters shoots energy? Missiles don't work on small, fast moving things in space.

[fugiman]

Buba why do you think the 304 is better? We have seen time after time that our ships retreat from battles and when we did go up against a ha'tak we left
( COMPANY OF THIEVES and OFF THE GRID). So if you are so sure our ships are better then why didn't they destroy at least one ha'tak? Because Earth based weapons suck compared to a interstellar civilization who are hundreds of years more advanced then us if not thousands of years.

I will say that the 304 is fast and has good shields but it lacks good offensive weapons and our nukes even beamed can't predict where the ha'tak is going to move to. You have to know where the ship is to beam by its side and as far as we have seen no nukes of ours have ever been able to damage shields on any ship. So until you have canon evidence of our nukes either being beamed nearby a ship or damaging shields I give it to the ha'tak

[jonos101]

Buba why do you think the 304 is better? We have seen time after time that our ships retreat from battles and when we did go up against a ha'tak we left
( COMPANY OF THIEVES and OFF THE GRID). So if you are so sure our ships are better then why didn't they destroy at least one ha'tak? Because Earth based weapons suck compared to a interstellar civilization who are hundreds of years more advanced then us if not thousands of years.

I will say that the 304 is fast and has good shields but it lacks good offensive weapons and our nukes even beamed can't predict where the ha'tak is going to move to. You have to know where the ship is to beam by its side and as far as we have seen no nukes of ours have ever been able to damage shields on any ship. So until you have canon evidence of our nukes either being beamed nearby a ship or damaging shields I give it to the ha'tak

we retreated coz it was 3 on 1 if it was 1 on 1 we probobly would have stayed