Super Star Destroyer vs Wraith Hive ship

[Integrabyte]

Why ruin it now? Everyone was so happy.

Ditto

[Crazy Tom]

19km long
5000 tubolasers/ion cannons
250 concusion missle tubes
40 tractor beam projectors
144 TIEs
200 other combat/support ships

one single A-wing
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Rotj112.jpg

the hive has guns the size of the daedalus. plus countless PD ones.
does anyone know how many darts it can hold?
also keep in mind tose guns are WAY bigger than anything the executor has.

and doen't the executor have a bit of a blind spot behind it as the milenium falcon atached itself to it? that indicates 2 things to me:
1. lack of sensor coverage
2. lack of guns(because guns can't fire blind)

so if a hive could come up behind the executor then it would have at leat a minute of unresisted fire before the executor could turn it's massive bulk around.

BTW totaly agree with Ouroboros.
but the thing that struck me about ties is that their not shielded so darts could technicaly cull the pilots reducing the fighters to useless junk.

[Integrabyte]

19km long
5000 tubolasers/ion cannons
250 concusion missle tubes
40 tractor beam projectors
144 TIEs
200 other combat/support ships

one single A-wing
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Rotj112.jpg

the hive has guns the size of the daedalus. plus countless PD ones.
does anyone know how many darts it can hold?
also keep in mind tose guns are WAY bigger than anything the executor has.

and doen't the executor have a bit of a blind spot behind it as the milenium falcon atached itself to it? that indicates 2 things to me:
1. lack of sensor coverage
2. lack of guns

so if a hive could come up behind the executor then it would have at leat a minute of unresisted fire before the executor could turn it's massive bulk around.

BTW totaly agree with Ouroboros.
but the thing that struck me about ties is that their not shielded so darts could technicaly cull the pilots reducing the fighters to useless junk.

I think there is only one problem in your post: SIZE. The Hive is a tiny bit bigger than the Falcon!

[Crazy Tom]

I think there is only one problem in your post: SIZE. The Hive is a tiny bit bigger than the Falcon!

Darn! i've been found!

my point stil stands however, the falcon had no ECM that i know about reling on her long ranse scaners and her captain's wit to evade capture.

AAA guns must track a fighter that's very maneuvarable and doing random maneuvers and stil hit. the falcon is no fighter (still gona be out maneuvered no matter how good the pilot) and it sports no EW assets, and it didn't get shot down. even anti capital ship guns could have detected the falcon. the falcon was not shot down and thus the executor does not have any guns on her stern.

of and anywhere from 100 to 2500 of the executors' main batteries are ion cannons that are useles agains the organic hive.

[thekillman]

2 advantages the wraith have:

1:they can use culling beams so as soon as the shields are down they can feast

2: suicidal darts. if a tie proves too strong they just go suicide. ssame for as the hive goes down. and if the hive is close enough the explosion of the superstardestroyer will go down.

[fugiman]

Ok the problem that I have always had with people using the one A-Wing took out the Star Destroyer defense is this, The ship was being shot at point blank but numerous Mon Calmrani Cruisers,not to mention various other ships, that was enough to drain the shields so the A-Wing could crash thriugh


Another point of mine we have never seen a wraith cull anything that is not in the open so we have no idea if they can just send a ship and cull it. So if this has been proven please tell me where because I have never seen it.


Also where are these guns the size of the deddy? Once again I have not seen all of atlantis so I may have missed it so what episode and if you could get a pictuer of them showing it that would be great



Now I think the Star Destroyer wins because it has superior number of weapons so it could blow the Wraith Hiveship out of the water (or space)

[Crazy Tom]

i belive ther eason the A-wing is used is that i tore through a whole bunch of hull and armour making a giat explosion in the process

as to culling only in the open:

int the brother hood, in the beginig the culling beam is seen sweping through the inside of a building through solid stone. u can't see it on stargatecaps but i remember this from the episode.

[Lord You]

I was checking the power output of a super star destroyer like the Executer. According the the Star Wars wiki, it has enough shield power to withstand 100 tsar bombas (50 MT each). Even naquada enhanced nuclear missles of 100 MT each (the tsar bomba was too big to be carried by missle, a naquada enhanced mini-warhead is more logical) would not dent the Executer, but it would inflict serous damage to a Wraith hive ship (as seen in No Man's Land). So I assume the Wraith hives are closer in ability to a regular Imperial Star Destroyer rather than a SSD.

[garhkal]

Ok the problem that I have always had with people using the one A-Wing took out the Star Destroyer defense is this, The ship was being shot at point blank but numerous Mon Calmrani Cruisers,not to mention various other ships, that was enough to drain the shields so the A-Wing could crash thriugh

Plus if you watch really close you see a pair of Xwings and an Awing take out the shield generator globe atop the superstructure/bridge before that awing does its nose dive. Had that not happened, i seriously doubt the Awing would have done any damage.

[Ouroboros]

I was checking the power output of a super star destroyer like the Executer. According the the Star Wars wiki, it has enough shield power to withstand 100 tsar bombas (50 MT each). Even naquada enhanced nuclear missles of 100 MT each (the tsar bomba was too big to be carried by missle, a naquada enhanced mini-warhead is more logical) would not dent the Executer, but it would inflict serous damage to a Wraith hive ship (as seen in No Man's Land). So I assume the Wraith hives are closer in ability to a regular Imperial Star Destroyer rather than a SSD.

100 Tsar Bombas would be 5 gigatons. Earth already had 1 gigaton missiles in season 1 from using just bits of raw naquada in an existing nuke, and showed 1.2 gigaton warheads that were small enough that men could move them around by hand in seige. 5 gigaton warheads on a large missile like what the Daedalus fires would be perfectly reasonable given their technology. Likewise it's also possible to get gigaton per bolt numbers for Wraith hives from looking at the misbegotten orbital bombardment.

This range of firepower represents sort of the middleground for both of the ships which is why I said they were pretty well matched earlier. The Hive has advantages in armour, in that it actually seems to have some, where as the SSD has shields but a comparitively fragile hull under them.

I'd say who wins would depend on which ship gets the drop on the other. The hive does have a tendancy to explode violently as well so a draw might even be possible.

[Lord You]

You are right: I thought they were 100 MT, but they were 1 GT devices in season 1.

[Mister Oragahn]

There's a thing I don't get. I know there's a bunch of SW ******s who managed to get their idiotic numbers into some EU material recently, notably the latest two books called E2 and E3 Incredible Cross Sections.
I know that the Executor, now called something as truly atrocious as Executor-class (super star destroyer) star dreadnought (no kidding, thanks Saxton and his absolute bend over anal classification), has been declared as being 19 km long, while most people were glad with the 17.6 km lenght.
There had been so many errors throughout the EU's existence regarding the ship's correct size, which made the official site display not less than three different scales for the same ship iirc. Why the hell wank the ship's a tad more, for no real reason, when there even are EU products which precisely feature Executor-like destroyers, which even enable measurements which precisely show that based on an ISD being 1.6 km long (some value that is not disputed by the EU), the Executor-like ship was precilyse 17.6 km long (11 ISDs lenghts).
I refer to the Guardian, a damaged ship, seen floating in orbit of a planet, and flanked by several ISDs casting their shadow upon the ship, which - oh surprise - makes it clear that the Executor-copies are 17.6 km long.
Retconning (can we honestly call that a true weighed retcon?) the size to 19 km adds even more crap to the soup.

Anyway, size rant aside, said size does matter a bit, if simply for the fact that there's more stuff to blow up.

The battle against both capital ships is just about which one can get the other's defenses down quick enough, which one has the best guns, and how long each ship can survive once its internal superstructure starts to be damaged.

It's not like I buy the high gigaton, or even high teraton yields claimed for SW ships; there's just not enough proof of that, and enough against that. Anything, at best, as shown yields in the megaton range.
It's just that the hiveships has no shields, the Executor has shields, but we know nothing about their true capability, besides flawed information, and the Wraith ship lack the small bit that makes the battle different and interesting.

It's possible that the SW ship has too many advantages here. On the other hand, you know, if we knew the real power of shields, we could have started estimating how much is required to punch through them.
SW shields have sections, and as far as Imperial Star Destroyers are concerned, certain sections can be downed with a concentrated albeit singular volley of torpedoes fired from a wing of starfighters.
The yield of such torpedoes? I don't know. Even if you classify them as anti capital ship torpedoes, I've never seen a single shred of direct evidence that they'd even reach the gigaton range.

The hiveship would have no real idea where to shoot at. By default, I'd try to spot what looks like a bridge, if anyone' stupid to stick a bridge out. Or I'd aim for the engines, destroy them and fire into them, to reach the reactor cores (they're perfectly aligned).

See, if there were two hiveships, or one shielded hiveship, I'd say the Wraith would take it for sure. It's correct that a nuke did cause some trouble to a Wraith hiveship in NML. Well, the structure was not destroyed at all, but the internal sections suffered some form of damage - which the ship autorepaired though.
I suppose the yield would either be in the multiple of megatons, or since humans can easily get them, like Ouro said, a couple of gigatons easy.
It would make it hard for the Executor's weapons to dent the armour, but the concentrated fire would still pose a problem, and get through.

If only hundreds of darts formed a wall, switched on their culling beams and started swallowing turbolasers and missiles, that would be workable. The Darts could even smash into the Executor with their energized bolts or missiles, and fire them back. But we haven't seen that. There's no tactician among the Wraith clever enough to do that.

When you think about it, it's crazy, really. A Wraith dart, if we follow what the episode The Ark has shown, could beam and store a whole base's armoury - it can hold thousands of people, so I don't see a problem here.

Again, if there was a Wraith tactician, and if the vampires started using missiles as well, they could use the darts to carry one or two Wraith bombs each and drop them ontop a single section of the Executor's shields.
But this does not happen.

That said, wouldn't there by Wraith bombers (reduced to a dot in Aurora, but a new model was planned) and Wraith superdarts (sorry for the name, I'm talking about that ship the Wraith used in Allies, as you can see below).

http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s2/2...allies162.html
http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s2/2...allies165.html
http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s2/2...allies173.html
http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s2/2...allies176.html
http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s2/2...allies178.html
http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s2/2...allies179.html
http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s2/2...allies180.html

[Crazy Tom]

it looks like a scout to me. the wraith seem to use 1 ship for different things(hive: battleship/city, cruiser: warship/suply, dart:fighter/farming tool).

so it's possible that they use the hyperdrive equiped dart as a scaout/transport.

[Ouroboros]

I'm curious to as to what the consequences of just storing raw inert mass in the culling beam would be.

Lets say the teched down version those people with the moonbase managed to build could only store 2000 people exactly, meeting the criteria for "thousands". Lets then say that each person weighs only 60kg to be conservative. This would mean that a teched down Wraith culling beam could store 120,000 kg of mass. We know darts are capable of high C speeds since we even got an episode where one flew in from out system. Even if unmodifed ones are only capable of .1c that sort of mass is going to have an absolutely ridiculous amount of energy behind it when it hits, somewhere on the order of 6,750 megatons if I figured it out right.

[Crazy Tom]

another case of Stargate stupidity emerging supreme in the end.