Neutrino Ion Generators - better than ZPMs?

[Buba uognarf]

"We've never seen a fully powered top of the line Ancient hyperdrive to compare with the Asgard ones."

Asurans.

They did not arrive in Atlantis within seconds, ala Thor to Earth, and from a different galaxy no less. And they were using a 3 ZPM Atlantis. Atlantis = pinnacle of Ancient creation.


Ancient hyperdrives are clearly subpar compared to the Asgard.

The Asgard cannot travel across galaxies in seconds, hence why in misbegotten it took an Asgard ship 4 days to travel from Earth to Atlantis. Odysessy has the best of everything Asgard and it does not travel across galaxies in seconds. We have no idea how far away the Asuran homeworld was from Lantea so a comparison is not possible.

[JSPuddlejumper]

"The Asgard cannot travel across galaxies in seconds, hence why in misbegotten it took an Asgard ship 4 days to travel from Earth to Atlantis. Odysessy has the best of everything Asgard and it does not travel across galaxies in seconds. We have no idea how far away the Asuran homeworld was from Lantea so a comparison is not possible. "

As far as I recall, Episode 302 was all about Michael and whats his name attempt at rehabing the Wraith. No mention of the Asgard.

Asuran Atlantis was hardly fast. Pegasus is tiny. The 'allied' fleet arrived rather quickly at Asuras, not to mention the Apollo. It is very unlikely that Atlantis is faster than a 304 with a ZPM, let alone an Asgard ship.


Odyssey hypderdrive upgrade: Akin to putting a Ferrari engine into Honda.

Thor does arrive from a different galaxy within seconds or minutes when O'Neill ask. Fact.

[lord groovy]

The Asgard cannot travel across galaxies in seconds, hence why in misbegotten it took an Asgard ship 4 days to travel from Earth to Atlantis. Odysessy has the best of everything Asgard and it does not travel across galaxies in seconds. We have no idea how far away the Asuran homeworld was from Lantea so a comparison is not possible.

In Stargate SG1 season 6 "Prometheus", the said ship was stranded at 1200lightyears from Earth.

In the following Episode "Unnatural Selection", Thor come to their rescue and brought back the ship in 5s (I checked it personaly). I think it is the Daniel Jackson.

Which mean that Asgards hyperdrive can go at least at 240 ly/s.

There are 2 candidates for Pegasus galaxy in the local group Pegasus I (2.9-3.1 millions ly) and Pegasus II ( 2.7 millions ly). Let's say 3 millions ly from MW.

So an Asgard Ship would take : 12500s = 3h30 (approximately).

So :
- the Earth ship are not gifted with the latest tech from the Asgard
- several systems may be conflicting with the maximal use of the Hyperdrive (there obvious design difference between the odysseus and the Daniel Jackson)
- Even with a ZPM we are far from Asgard Hyperdrive which I hope have evolved between season 6 and "Unending".

[Dev Corvin]

Nope, as we know that an Asgard ship takes 4 days to reach Atlantis from the Earth; LONGER than it took the Daedalus when it had a ZPM.

In Unnatural Selection they were in Hyperspace for the entirety of that conversation, as Thor knew they'd need supplies from Earth; on screen, we only saw them dropping out of hyperspace towards the end of the trip. That places the actual transit time anywhere in the region of several MINUTES; lets say 6 minutes as a fair estimate.

That gives a speed of around 12KLy/h, making the transit time from Earth to Atlantis 4.1 days, in line with canon.

[lord groovy]

Nope, as we know that an Asgard ship takes 4 days to reach Atlantis from the Earth; LONGER than it took the Daedalus when it had a ZPM.

Can you give me an episode so that I can check. thank you in advance.

In Unnatural Selection they were in Hyperspace for the entirety of that conversation, as Thor knew they'd need supplies from Earth; on screen, we only saw them dropping out of hyperspace towards the end of the trip. That places the actual transit time anywhere in the region of several MINUTES; lets say 6 minutes as a fair estimate.

That gives a speed of around 12KLy/h, making the transit time from Earth to Atlantis 4.1 days, in line with canon.

I checked again and the last view we had of the window of the command center shows stars (and they were not moving). And that view was approximately 1mn before the arrival on Earth orbit. I hope you can check it too.

Supposing that what happened in that 1mn was when we were in hyperspace, it would mean that the speed is rather 6 times greater : 72000ly/h. Which means that the Daniel Jackson would take 1day to get to Atlantis.

Sorry we still have the leftovers from the Asgard. or the Daniel Jackson is an Asgard limited-edition.

[Dev Corvin]

Can you give me an episode so that I can check. thank you in advance.



I checked again and the last view we had of the window of the command center shows stars (and they were not moving). And that view was approximately 1mn before the arrival on Earth orbit. I hope you can check it too.

Supposing that what happened in that 1mn was when we were in hyperspace, it would mean that the speed is rather 6 times greater : 72000ly/h. Which means that the Daniel Jackson would take 1day to get to Atlantis.

Sorry we still have the leftovers from the Asgard. or the Daniel Jackson is an Asgard limited-edition.

WOOLSEY: I understand that Stargate Command has put in a request to the Asgard for transportation.
WEIR: I know they don't have a lot of ships to spare right now, but that will shave almost two weeks off our travel time.

Using a CGI goof as evidence of Asgard ship speed isn't valid, sorry. It was made very clear by the writers in this episode (and since they inserted these two lines its obvious they wanted to correct this annoying misconception) that an Asgard ship can travel between Earth and Pegasus in 4 days (18 days - 2 weeks == 4 days).

EDIT: My maths was slightly wrong on my previous post, though. Given evidence from the travel time between Earth and Atlantis, an Asgard ship should be capable of speeds of around 31,000 ly/h, which would give a transit time in Unnatural Selection of around 2 and a half minutes, perfectly fesible, although showing this on-screen would've made for an incredibly boring 2 and a half minutes, hence the artistic license (or possibly laziness) used for pacing in this episode.

[lord groovy]

Using a CGI goof as evidence of Asgard ship speed isn't valid, sorry. It was made very clear by the writers in this episode (and since they inserted these two lines its obvious they wanted to correct this annoying misconception) that an Asgard ship can travel between Earth and Pegasus in 4 days (18 days - 2 weeks == 4 days).

Okay I surrender you won.

But
- Asgard ship with NIG = 4 days to get to Atlantis
- Daedalus with ZPM = 4 days also

Can we say safely that the power delivered is the same between NIG and ZPM? and this even if ZPM may have more stored energy than NIG.

[Dev Corvin]

Okay I surrender you won.

But
- Asgard ship with NIG = 4 days to get to Atlantis
- Daedalus with ZPM = 4 days also

Can we say safely that the power delivered is the same between NIG and ZPM? and this even if ZPM may have more stored energy than NIG.

No, not at all.

What we can safely say is that the power provided by several Neutrino Ion Generators is enough to max out the power handling capability of Asgard hyperdrive generators. ZPMs are capable of delivering up to 1% per second of their total capacity into a system capable of handling that much power; for example, Lantean shields, the McKay-Miller matter bridge (used for the revised Arcturus prototype), etc.

The fact that the Odyssey/Daedalus hyperdrive doesn't deplete the ZPM in 100 seconds shows that the bottleneck in the system is the hyperdrive itself. It's simply incapable of drawing anywhere NEAR the maximum output of a ZPM, thus being easily maxed out by either a NIG or a ZPM.

[JSPuddlejumper]

This 4 days could depend on other factors. Type of ship, location and what not, or possibly mistake by the writers. Otherwise it conflicts with earlier seasons of SG1. Because if Thor took more than a few minutes to arrive on Earth, O'Neill et al would be dead or in serious trouble.

Or the writers decided to downgrade the hyperdrives drastically to keep Atlantis isolated, thus plot related.

[s09119]

The Asgard hyperdrive speed was retconned after Season 6. We know this because it took Thor a while to get to the Asgard homeworld in "New Order." If his hyperdrive was so fast, he could have popped out there hours ahead of the Replicator ship.

[Mister Oragahn]

Why so? Thor had a science vessel, not necessarily armed sufficiently. Replicators take their time.
Thor could have just decided to follow the ship in question.
I think it requires more than a dubious interpretation to claim a retcon happened about the super speeds we've previously seen about Asgards and Replicators.
Hell, even in Unending they moved between two galaxies at an impressive pace for a 304, and their shields didn't even get fully recharged during those trips.

A Biliskner was capable of crossing 1200 LY within a second, more or less.

[s09119]

Why so? Thor had a science vessel, not necessarily armed sufficiently. Replicators take their time.
Thor could have just decided to follow the ship in question.
I think it requires more than a dubious interpretation to claim a retcon happened about the super speeds we've previously seen about Asgards and Replicators.
Hell, even in Unending they moved between two galaxies at an impressive pace for a 304, and their shields did recharge fully during those trips.

A Biliskner was capable of crossing 1200 LY within a second, more or less.

Ever since Season 6, Asgard ships have taken longer times to do anything, we know this. "New Order," "Reckoning," even "Fragile Balance." Every time we saw an Asgard ship, it took more than a few seconds to get here; it took almost a day, if not multiple days, depending on the episode. And their interstellar travel took just as long. The 304 speed is a reinforcement of this, as is the fact that the Odyssey, posessing the "latest" Asgard technology and a ZPM, still takes time to travel places, as does the Daedalus and Apollo.

[Mister Oragahn]

Ever since Season 6, Asgard ships have taken longer times to do anything, we know this. "New Order," "Reckoning," even "Fragile Balance." Every time we saw an Asgard ship, it took more than a few seconds to get here; it took almost a day, if not multiple days, depending on the episode. And their interstellar travel took just as long. The 304 speed is a reinforcement of this, as is the fact that the Odyssey, posessing the "latest" Asgard technology and a ZPM, still takes time to travel places, as does the Daedalus and Apollo.

There's never been a single nut of proof that the Asgards gave the 304s their best hyperdrives.
In Unending, there's nothing showing that the speed was dramatically lower.

When the trip inside the Milky Way did get lower, it was after the ship got attacked multiple times, and we know that in general, hyperdrives are system easily prone to failure because of attacks.
Besides:

CARTER
(at the control panel)
Yes, sir: P3X-474. It's uninhabited. We should get there in just under an hour. We might make it before the hyperdrive fails.

The hyperdrive wasn't far from giving its last breath. Which largely gives room to consider that it wasn't working at peak performance.

Besides, updates or not, the Odyssey still is a 304, not an Asgard ship built from scratch. There's only that much you can update before being limited by the very initial design and structure.

As for all freshier Asgard hyperdrive sequences, let's see... there is no point repeating New Order as I precisely adressed that one above, and you didn't tell me why I'm wrong on that.
We've seen Replicator ships take their time previously, and Orilla was not full of better tech. It was another major Asgard world the Replicators were headed for and were going to eat.

In Reckoning, I don't see a shred of evidence of slower speeds. After making changes to the weapon, Thor moved his ship in a region where there were Ha'taks infested by Replicators. After being shot at by the second ship, he pushed his back into hyperspace.
They arrive to Earth seconds later. The stuff that happens between departure and arrival is yatting between Anubis and Ba'al, and between Oma and Daniel, and there's no proof that these different sequences didn't occur relatively at the same time.

As for Fragile Balance, since the humour of this sequence is all I need, here's the transcript:

O'NEILL
All right, I've heard enough.
(He returns to the control console.)
Carter,
(Carter follows)
Can you call Thor on this thing?

[Carter walks to the console Young Jack used to beam them up.]

LOKI
Please, do not.

CARTER
We've already tried contacting the Asgard a number of times.

YOUNG JACK
You know, you'd think if Thor knew about this?

CARTER
Okay, pretty sure that's it.

[Everyone waits. And waits.]

YOUNG JACK
All right, how long are we go—

[He stumbles slightly, closing his eyes as if giddy.]

O'NEILL
You all right?

YOUNG JACK
Actually, no.

DANIEL
Uh, what do we do if Thor doesn't show up?
(Thor beams aboard the ship)
Never mind.

I don't see why you see a retcon there.

[s09119]

There's never been a single nut of proof that the Asgards gave the 304s their best hyperdrives.
In Unending, there's nothing showing that the speed was dramatically lower.

When the trip inside the Milky Way did get lower, it was after the ship got attacked multiple times, and we know that in general, hyperdrives are system easily prone to failure because of attacks.
Besides:

I drew the conclusion that the hyperdrive was simply overtaxed. We know they need to rest a bit before going right back into hyperspace, and with all the traveling they'd done so scrunched together, Sam was simply saying that they couldn't afford to keep doing it without the drive failing on them.

The hyperdrive wasn't far from giving its last breath. Which largely gives room to consider that it wasn't working at peak performance.

But we're getting different vibes from that scene... so let's just ignore "Unending" unless once of us can directly prove the other wrong.

Besides, updates or not, the Odyssey still is a 304, not an Asgard ship built from scratch. There's only that much you can update before being limited by the very initial design and structure.

Maybe, but the 304 was designed with Asgard tech in mind, remember? All they were doing was replacing the old drive with a new one, not really that major a change. Like going to a car shop and switching out your old crappy engine for a newer model of the same type.

As for all freshier Asgard hyperdrive sequences, let's see... there is no point repeating New Order as I precisely adressed that one above, and you didn't tell me why I'm wrong on that.

That's because what you said didn't make sense to me. Thor was trying to beat the Replicators there so he could warn his people and raise some sort of defense. It made 100% sense for him to try and get there first no matter what, but he didn't. He had to travel at the same speed as the Replicator ship... which makes sense, since the Replicators use Asgard technology on their ships.

WAIT! THAT'S IT! I'VE GOT IT! The Replicators use Asgard technology, right? And then improve upon whatever they have, and make it even better. So technically they should be slightly faster than the Asgard, no? But Fifth's ship still took hours to reach Orilla, and he was certainly in a rush to get there... after all, the salvation of the Replicators depended on him getting at some nuetronium.

We've seen Replicator ships take their time previously, and Orilla was not full of better tech. It was another major Asgard world the Replicators were headed for and were going to eat.

The Replicators were just about wiped out, and everything they had was on that ship. They needed to get there ASAP. Not only that, but Orilla was the last stronghold of the Asgard, and conquering it would finally destroy their enemy. I wouldn't say they were taking their time.

In Reckoning, I don't see a shred of evidence of slower speeds. After making changes to the weapon, Thor moved his ship in a region where there were Ha'taks infested by Replicators. After being shot at by the second ship, he pushed his back into hyperspace.
They arrive to Earth seconds later. The stuff that happens between departure and arrival is yatting between Anubis and Ba'al, and between Oma and Daniel, and there's no proof that these different sequences didn't occur relatively at the same time.

Sure there is, time was still passing. We've seen shots where a 304 leaves its base one second, and emerges from hyperspace in the next scene... but we know it wasn't instant transit.

As for Fragile Balance, since the humour of this sequence is all I need, here's the transcript:



I don't see why you see a retcon there.

They'd been hailing Thor for days, remember, ever since they figured the clone thing out. He just happened to arrive then, hence the humor.

[Dev Corvin]

Also, any doubt about the speed of Asgard hyperdrives was eliminated entirely in S03E02 of Atlantis; there really is no question about it anymore.