Asgard tech vs Ancient tech

[s09119]

Thors hammer upgrades, protecting earth using their advanced technology to scare the goa'uld and removing the ancient knowlegde from Jack are all technology based! As SG always says. Not not always about the technology but how you use it! And the Asgard use it better

Plus the ancients should get like -10 for only seeding Human life the arrogant, racist, anti alien B@#TAR%S!

Also as i just read in another thread the asgard made the Gate anti-koosh (SP?) Device.
+1 for asgard

WTF? What "anti-kawoosh" device?

[Buba uognarf]

They both get plus's for Time Dialation technology.
The Ancients get a plus for time travel but they were not perfect in its development, WoO anyone?
The Asgard having sensors which a holographic and highly more sophisticated than the ancients should give them a +1. ancient sensor technology is pretty inferiour to the Asgard's. The ancient sensors are like Dowsing compared to the state of the art radar system of the Asgard.

Well ancients sensors are powerful enough to cover a significant portion of the galaxy...

Ancients shields e.g. atlantis are superior, weapons also seem superior, powersources are superior

WoO is an old attempt and time travel so should be ignored seeing as they have fully viable time travel.

Their nanite tech is much more advanced than Asgard seeing as the Asgard couldn't defeat the reps.

[immhotep]

Erm the Cancer device was a weapon that could have been used to wipe out wraith hives like a cancer causing dakara. It was crap because it wasnt perfected, in its current form it would be easier to grow a million tobacco plants and burn them next to a hive ship...but if it had worked it might have damage the wraith a heck of alot. Becket got caught in the crossfire of weapons development, which is a consequence of being at war.

The Anti kawoosh device was similar to the Nox, it allows autodialing without the need for a dialing sequence, it just opens the wormhole and the event horizon with the wave of a hand. Freya used it in small victories.

Well ancients sensors are powerful enough to cover a significant portion of the galaxy...

Ancients shields e.g. atlantis are superior, weapons also seem superior, powersources are superior

WoO is an old attempt and time travel so should be ignored seeing as they have fully viable time travel.

Their nanite tech is much more advanced than Asgard seeing as the Asgard couldn't defeat the reps.

Atlantis has three ZPM's, thats nothing to do with shield power, that to do with power source. Atlantis with 1 ZPM is as powerful as the Oddesey with 1 ZPM. Thier power sources are superiour, but they arent perfect, ive said the ZPM can be outdone by Geothermal energy and that is a canon fact. If ZPM's were perfect why would they develop arcturis, or the geothermal rig.

Thier nanite technology created the replicators which have so far killed hundreds of million, attacked atlantis twice, almost wiped out the Asgard, us, the jaffa, the tokra and the goauld (which isnt a bad point i know) So lets get this in to perspective. Yes its more Advanced than the asgard's but it was a failed technology because it wasnt used by the anceints atall, it rebelled and wiped out 2 galaxies almost.

[MechaThor]

Thier nanite technology created the replicators which have so far killed hundreds of million, attacked atlantis twice, almost wiped out the Asgard, us, the jaffa, the tokra and the goauld (which isnt a bad point i know) So lets get this in to perspective. Yes its more Advanced than the asgard's but it was a failed technology because it wasnt used by the anceints atall, it rebelled and wiped out 2 galaxies almost.

I don't Think the replicators count as ancient tech. The original Hotzone like nanite tech may. But the replicators we know and love 2day are mostly all self evolved and use Mostly Asgard technology along with afew other races, Such as the unkown alien ship seen in "enemies" There4 replicators especailly the M/W ones are infact the invention of both. As far we we known the M/W replicators never even ate any ancient tech.

The Gd thing about the replicators is that it shows just how powerful an ancient/asgard mixed technology/mind could have been.

[Buba uognarf]

Atlantis has three ZPM's, thats nothing to do with shield power, that to do with power source. Atlantis with 1 ZPM is as powerful as the Oddesey with 1 ZPM. Thier power sources are superiour, but they arent perfect, ive said the ZPM can be outdone by Geothermal energy and that is a canon fact. If ZPM's were perfect why would they develop arcturis, or the geothermal rig.

Thier nanite technology created the replicators which have so far killed hundreds of million, attacked atlantis twice, almost wiped out the Asgard, us, the jaffa, the tokra and the goauld (which isnt a bad point i know) So lets get this in to perspective. Yes its more Advanced than the asgard's but it was a failed technology because it wasnt used by the anceints atall, it rebelled and wiped out 2 galaxies almost.

Rubbish. Atlantis with a ZPM can stand against a fleet of hive ships for days the Odysessy can't take nearly as much punishment evidenced by the fact it got taken out in about a dozen hits by an OMS. Face it Atlantis's shield is the strongest seen in SG the powersource has something to do with it but the way atlantis utilises the power is what makes it soo powerful.

Z.P.M's are finite therefore they need sustainable energy. Canon evidence says Asgard neutrino Ion generators can only output kilotons of energy pretty pityful for such an advanced race. Ancient powersources are clearly superior.

You see once again you bring in the use of the technology which is not under debate the fact is that ancient nanite technology is more developed than the Asgards end of. It is still a technological acheivement.

[StevenCaldwell]

I think the ancient should get -1 for the DHD system in the main control room.

My reason is-

Remember in the Seige part III when Ford ( We all miss Ford, please TBTP bring ford back to Atlantis ) anyway- when ford diald the gate from the jumpers DHD, And Mckay said that he couldn't shut the gate down bacause the jumper was in control.

Why didn't the Ancient build the DHD to be in control of everything, so if event should accour then they could shut the gate down.

[immhotep]

Rubbish. Atlantis with a ZPM can stand against a fleet of hive ships for days the Odysessy can't take nearly as much punishment evidenced by the fact it got taken out in about a dozen hits by an OMS. Face it Atlantis's shield is the strongest seen in SG the powersource has something to do with it but the way atlantis utilises the power is what makes it soo powerful.

Z.P.M's are finite therefore they need sustainable energy. Canon evidence says Asgard neutrino Ion generators can only output kilotons of energy pretty pityful for such an advanced race. Ancient powersources are clearly superior.

Erm hive weapons are no where near as powerful as Ori motherships, and it was 11 hits, which is 9 more than an earth ship can and 11x the power of an anubis MS which is actually using Ancient technology in its makeup.
I am actually making reference to the echoes evidence not hive ships. The whales congregated around only altantis, because they knew with a single ZPM that is how far thier protection from the flare would be. In the past with 3 ZPM's the ancients covered a larger area of the planet. But with 1 ZPM only the city is all that could be protected from the flare. Now because Oddesey and atlantis could both survive the flare with a single ZPM it would stand that the deadalus would have been able to protect a similar portion of the planet when it had a ZPM tied in. So if a ZPM + Asgard shield could protect from a solar flare just as well as Atlantis + ZPM. Is there any evidence to surgest that Atlanti's shield is any way more powerful than the deadalus when given the same power source.
Also when deadalus first arrived with the ZPM it sustain no damage, just like atlantis. it was only when we handed the ZPM over that the shields buckled. It was the ZPM, ie the power source which gave both shield's thier power not the shield technology itself.
This is also true with hyperdrive, a ZPM can boost the Speed of An Asgard hypedrive to match an actual asgard ship to a time of 4 days intergalactic voyage. Now this is a major point, if the maximum speed of a Asgard drive is the same when ours is plugged with a ZPM, and when the Asgard ships are in full working condition. It stands to reason that the Asgard have a power source equal to a ZPM which they are using or something like the 25% of the NIG = ZPM.
Asgard technology has its limitation, but those limitation are ours not theirs. when we power thier technology it is weak, when they power thier technology is very powerful and very advanced. When the ancients ie ZPM on Oddesey powers Asgard technology then it becomes as powerful as it should be. IMO that means that the Asgards technological power is related to the power source and from the hyperdrive and shield example, when at full power by a ZPM(on our ships) or thier ownadvanced power source the Ancients and Asgard become equal in thier technological advancedness. Atleast in shields and Hyperdrives.

Both Asgard and Ancients technology are equal when given the same power source. If you exchanged both thier power sources for something else. Say you power both technology by an alien power source, i would bet that both technologys would take exactly the same amount of punishment as each other. The Ancients and Asgard both have advanced and equal power sources when powering thier technology put them on equal footings. Earth is the bridge between them, we have both Asgard shields and Ancient power source, when combined they are as powerful as their are independantly. A ZPM plus asgard shields is as powerful Asgard shield with Asgard power sources or Ancient shield with anceint power source. Rince and repeat for hyperdrives, cloaks, gate technology, time dialation, weapons...the technology of a race and how well it performs is dependant upon power source alone, when both races are at that level of technology and have both interacted and co-operated on so many levels, probley sharing the only thing which will make the difference is how much energy you are able to supply in order to use the technology. The fact that Asgard hyp. + NIG and Asgard hyp. +ancient ZPM travel the same distance in the same time, shows that there is no difference in the technology level of the two races atall.

[Buba uognarf]

Erm hive weapons are no where near as powerful as Ori motherships, and it was 11 hits, which is 9 more than an earth ship can and 11x the power of an anubis MS which is actually using Ancient technology in its makeup.

That's irrelevent Ori weapons aren't many thousands of times more powerful than Hive weapons which is what they would have to be for the shields to be the same strength.

I am actually making reference to the echoes evidence not hive ships. The whales congregated around only altantis, because they knew with a single ZPM that is how far thier protection from the flare would be. In the past with 3 ZPM's the ancients covered a larger area of the planet. But with 1 ZPM only the city is all that could be protected from the flare. Now because Oddesey and atlantis could both survive the flare with a single ZPM it would stand that the deadalus would have been able to protect a similar portion of the planet when it had a ZPM tied in.
So if a ZPM + Asgard shield could protect from a solar flare just as well as Atlantis + ZPM. Is there any evidence to surgest that Atlanti's shield is any way more powerful than the deadalus when given the same power source.
Also when deadalus first arrived with the ZPM it sustain no damage, just like atlantis. it was only when we handed the ZPM over that the shields buckled. It was the ZPM, ie the power source which gave both shield's thier power not the shield technology itself.

That's completely irrelevent so an Asgard shield with a Z.P.M can withstand a solar flare and so can atlantis that's all we know. Then you decide to make up all sorts of different things which is nothing more than blind speculation sorry i am not going just accept whatever you make up about asgard shields. You have no evidence to suggest an Asgard shield can expand and no evidence to suggest that Asgard shields match that of atlantis accept fan boy wet dreams.

You're basically saying that because X + Y can do this and Z + Y can also do this then Z + Y must be able to do anything X + Y can do. Doesn't work that way.

Remember huge amounts of heat got past the Asgard shields and damaged the deadalus and while it was closer to the sun than Atlantis would have been if the Ancients shields weren't more advanced heat still would have built up behind the shield and killed the inhabitants seeing as Atlantis itself is so fragile.

When the deadalus arrived with the Z.P.M it was facing 1 hive and several cruisers and neither were actually firing at the deadalus that's a far cry from the millions of hits atlantis would have withstood over the days it was sieged.

Also notice that Atlantis itself suffers no damage when under attack even under huge pressure from Wraith fleets and Asuran death rays unlike Asgard shields which actually bleed damage through evidenced by the fact key systems can be damaged even with raised shields.

This is also true with hyperdrive, a ZPM can boost the Speed of An Asgard hypedrive to match an actual asgard ship to a time of 4 days intergalactic voyage. Now this is a major point, if the maximum speed of a Asgard drive is the same when ours is plugged with a ZPM, and when the Asgard ships are in full working condition. It stands to reason that the Asgard have a power source equal to a ZPM which they are using or something like the 25% of the NIG = ZPM.

Ok so you're one of the people who believes that simply plugging an advanced powersource into a technology will increase it's efficency beyond it's physical limitations? Let me explain.

And please pay attention to this because i've repeated this same explanation many times before across the forum and it's started to bug me.

The fact that a Z.P.M can boost the power of a Deadalus class ships hyperdrive to match an Asgard Oneills DOES NOT mean both powersources are equal. A hyperdrive has a physical limit to how fast it can possibly travel once that speed is reached no extra power will affect it's speed! A Z.P.M simply powers Asgard tech to it's physical potential as does Asgard generators it doesn't mean they're equal powersources. That is why your NIG = 25% of a Z.P.M is garbage it doesn't work that way.

Asgard technology has its limitation, but those limitation are ours not theirs. when we power thier technology it is weak, when they power thier technology is very powerful and very advanced. When the ancients ie ZPM on Oddesey powers Asgard technology then it becomes as powerful as it should be. IMO that means that the Asgards technological power is related to the power source and from the hyperdrive and shield example, when at full power by a ZPM(on our ships) or thier ownadvanced power source the Ancients and Asgard become equal in thier technological advancedness. Atleast in shields and Hyperdrives.

Simply plugging a better powersource does not solve all problems as every piece of technology has a physical limit to how well it can work see above ^^^^.

Dude i'm sorry for the rant and i don't to get into an arguement but alot of your reasoning is flaud. Canon evidence shows Asgard NIG's produce less energy per second than an Atom bomb no getting around that you may say that is a plothole but there's no getting around it, no way can Asgard generators match a Z.P.M.

[immhotep]

Remember huge amounts of heat got past the Asgard shields and damaged the deadalus and while it was closer to the sun than Atlantis would have been if the Ancients shields weren't more advanced heat still would have built up behind the shield and killed the inhabitants seeing as Atlantis itself is so fragile.

In echoes the reason that the soldier died was because it was trying to do the same thing that deadalus did and failed, which is why the guy was severely burnt.

You're basically saying that because X + Y can do this and Z + Y can also do this then Z + Y must be able to do anything X + Y can do. Doesn't work that way.

No im saying that Ancient + ZPM are equal to Asgard + ZPM, the ZPM pushes both technologies to thier physical limits and because their isnt a difference in the limit that both can go to, both are the same Physical level.
The fact that the deadalus can withstand the heat of of a Solar flare is beyond proof that Asgard technology is at least advanced as the ancients IMO. Thats like surviving the directed heat of a supernova. The ZPM did provide the power and its a shame that we wont get to see Asgard and Ancient technology be compared directly.

That is why your NIG = 25% of a Z.P.M is garbage it doesn't work that way.

What makes you so confident that a ZPM is so overwhealmingly powerful? So much so that all other sources of power are useless, weve seen 3 different kinds of powesource which outdo it, all ancient but its not the ultimate source of power. The asgard may have a better source, also if the NIG's arent as powerful as a ZPM then how do you explain the Asgard being able to go as fast without a ZPM as the deadalus with a ZPM if the asgard dont already have a power source capable of taking it to the physcial limitations?
We know the Asgard hyperdrives as faster than the Ancients ones. Not only has it been shown that the Asgard can go fast but that the Ancient are comparitively slow.
Watching first strike to check a few facts. wish i had echoes.

[Buba uognarf]

In echoes the reason that the soldier died was because it was trying to do the same thing that deadalus did and failed, which is why the guy was severely burnt.

I think the ship was caught off guard and didn't raise shields in time.

No im saying that Ancient + ZPM are equal to Asgard + ZPM, the ZPM pushes both technologies to thier physical limits and because their isnt a difference in the limit that both can go to, both are the same Physical level.
The fact that the deadalus can withstand the heat of of a Solar flare is beyond proof that Asgard technology is at least advanced as the ancients IMO. Thats like surviving the directed heat of a supernova. The ZPM did provide the power and its a shame that we wont get to see Asgard and Ancient technology be compared directly.

Dude just because both technologies do the same thing doesn't mean they both as advanced as each other. The Z.P.M pushes Asgard to it's limits as do Asgard generators doesn't mean that powersources are equal.

And the fact both shields can deflect a coronal mass ejection doesn't mean the shields are equal either. The way atlantis's shields defends against attacks is clearly superior to asgard designs e.g. no rocking and shaking.

What makes you so confident that a ZPM is so overwhealmingly powerful? So much so that all other sources of power are useless, weve seen 3 different kinds of powesource which outdo it, all ancient but its not the ultimate source of power. The asgard may have a better source, also if the NIG's arent as powerful as a ZPM then how do you explain the Asgard being able to go as fast without a ZPM as the deadalus with a ZPM if the asgard dont already have a power source capable of taking it to the physcial limitations?
We know the Asgard hyperdrives as faster than the Ancients ones. Not only has it been shown that the Asgard can go fast but that the Ancient are comparitively slow.
Watching first strike to check a few facts. wish i had echoes.

Obviously reaching the techs physical limitations doesn't require a full Z.P.M to do it.

[Cycrow]

everyone seems to have missed that the asguard also had cloaking tech.

they created that device that was able to cloak a person, thats got to count for something.

ancients defaintly win with thier shields, even using simlar power sources, the ancient shields are supieror.

Atantlis with only 1 ZPM was an incredibly powerful shield, much more so than the Daedalus with a ZPM powering its shields, so they both effectivly had the same power source for thier shields.

Hyperdrives is a difficult one, the ancients were able to send a whole city into hyperdrive, but the asguard one seems to be alot faster. i think it was stated that they could get from earth to thier home system in hours with a ship in tow. And it seems without towing, they can get there in minutes.

not yet seen any sign that the ancient's intergalatic hyperdrive is anywhere near as fast.

also, the asguard only have 1 type of hyperdrive as far as we are aware, so all thier ships are fast and intergalatic, whereas only a few of the ancient ships are.

The Anicents defiantly have the edge overall, they had great tech in so many areas, but the asguard could have better tech in certain very specific areas.

But the asguard could have easily expanded alot on thier tech after the anicents left.

also, i dont think u should really include any powers from ascenion, as thats evolution rather than actual tech.

and finally, althou both have beaming tech, the asguard version just seems better, they can beam from anywhere to anywhere, and beam specific things, like a symbiote from inside a human, a whole building into space, etc

[immhotep]

So because their shields are not as powerful you say they didnt have them and were caught off gaurd?!
Adn because they can do the same things with the same amount of energy it doesnt mean they are equal...that doesnt make sense.

[Buba uognarf]

So because their shields are not as powerful you say they didnt have them and were caught off gaurd?!
Adn because they can do the same things with the same amount of energy it doesnt mean they are equal...that doesnt make sense.

Huh? The ancient SCIENCE vessel was caught offguard by the CME so that isn't an actual guage of ancient shield strength.

You have one example of both shields withstanding something it isn't evidence that both shields are equal as it's only one event. An example would be a tank and a man wearing a bullet proof vest. Both are shot by a firearm and both survive that doesn't mean that the man can withstand being hit by a grenade just because the tank can.

[Londo Molari]

The Asgard themselves have said that they have not even scratched the surface of Ancient knowledge. That pretty much proves the ancients are more advanced.

The reason the Asgard look so much more impressive is that we have never seen the Ancients during a time when they were a civilization. We have only seen ruins, artifacts and small groups of survivors. The Asgard on the other hand were an entire alive civilization who was an ally of Earth. So their assistance seemed much more useful to us than the Ancients.

But I'm sure if we went back a million years, we'd see a much more impressive Ancient civilization.

[Cycrow]

*EDIT*

double post, seems my connection was goign abit slow