Neglected Power Sources

[Avatar28]

The reactor mentioned on Building the Future is k nown as JET, there are, indeed, a few kinks to work out. Not the least of which is the fact that at this point we have yet to be able to create a self-sustaining fusion reaction that is able to produce more power than we put into it. Right now it's still a losing proposition.

There is hope that ITER may be able to change that. ITER is a new fusion reactor being built as an international project in France. While it's not going to be used for generating electricity, it is expected to be able to sustain 500 megawatts of fusion for 500 seconds compared to JETs 14 megawatts for less than one second.

[sperry1975]

In 10x13, Carter mentions that to dimension-shift the entire planet using Merlin's device, they'd need 700 gigawatts, provided by either a ZPM, or 80% of the United States' power generation capacity.

So yeah, we do have power sources on earth that, in total, are comparable to a ZPM, they're just being used. To power an entire country.

Are you aware that: “The industry group said 103 nuclear plants nationwide generated 787.6 billion kilowatt hours of electricity last year, just off the 788.5 billion kwh record set in 2004.” That's 788.5 billion kilowatt hours or 787,600,000,000 kwh which translates into 787,600 gigawatts. That sounds like more than one ZPMs to me, don't you think? Not to mention a possible fusion reactor at Area 51 or those nice little generators that Carter put together based on the technology acquired from Season 3 Episode 5 Learning Curve, or the second generation of those generators which are apparently able to power an atlantis chair if used in pairs. By itself it doesn't last to long. What was the name of those generators anyways and how much power are they said to be able to produce? Please don't tell me it's the same amount of power a car can produce.

[Avatar28]

Er, that's in kilowatt hours. You have to divide by the number of hours in a year to find the average total power output there.

So, figuring 365.25 days in a year gives 8766 hours.

divide 787,600,000,000,000 watt-hours by 8766 hours to get approximately 90,000,000,000 watts or 90 gigawatts. Nuclear produces approximately 20% of the nation's power (1) so that gives a total of around 450 gigawatts based on the figures given by Sperry. So, actually, well short of Carter's power requirements.

[sperry1975]

Er, that's in kilowatt hours. You have to divide by the number of hours in a year to find the average total power output there.

So, figuring 365.25 days in a year gives 8766 hours.

divide 787,600,000,000,000 watt-hours by 8766 hours to get approximately 90,000,000,000 watts or 90 gigawatts. Nuclear produces approximately 20% of the nation's power (1) so that gives a total of around 450 gigawatts based on the figures given by Sperry. So, actually, well short of Carter's power requirements.

Ok, so now add in a possible working fusion reactor at Area 51 or those nice little generators that Carter put together based on the technology acquired from Season 3 Episode 5 Learning Curve, or the second generation of those generators which are apparently able to power an atlantis chair if used in pairs. So what does the figure come to now?

[Avatar28]

Really impossible to say since we don't know how much energy those provide. Obviously from the figures given in the show, though, the total generation capacity of the United States in that reality is about twice what ours is, around 900 gigawatts. Not surprising, though, since with the gate being public knowledge it would be easy to start integrating alien technologies into the power grid.

[sperry1975]

from the figures given in the show, though, the total generation capacity of the United States in that reality is about twice what ours is, around 900 gigawatts. Not surprising, though, since with the gate being public knowledge it would be easy to start integrating alien technologies into the power grid.

1st of all I think 900 gigawatt's is a fair assumption. 2ndly you've brought out a good point about that alternate reality episode having the Stargate being public knowledge and the alien technology most likely being integrated into the present power system. Therefore, I must conclude that the power systems for earth in that alternate reality couldn't have been any less than 900 gigawatt's and with alien tech. integrated into modern power systems it could bring it up... lets say 100 gigawatt's greater. That gives them a total of around 1000 gigawatt's which is substantially different from the 700 gigawatt's statement by Carter.

[Mister Oragahn]

McKay mentionned that an overloading Naqahdah generator Mk-I would create a 20 KT explosion (Hide and Seek).

Though it's certain that this is even less efficient, though more violent, than a low yield constant use of such a device, it means at least a total energy of 83.68 TJ, or 83,680 GJ (gigajoules).

A naqahdah generator Mk-II apparently works at 600%, in controlled overload, and gets depleted in a few minutes or so, when tied to a lantian control chair used to fire drones.

Power is one thing, but how long did they have to keep the phase cloak on? Maybe for a very very long time, you know, as the Ori would possibly leave one ship there.

That's why a ZPM, though not really taxed at all, would probably be the only source able to provide that moderate power, but for a very long time. However, I suspect that a big ship's naqahdah generator would do fine as well.
After all, Earth had the Prometheus still in action. Maybe they just don't wanted to stick it on the ground. Which is stupid, when you think about it, as the fate of Earth was in balance.

[ARMS]

It's interesting that on Stargate they've made reference to our power sources on earth as being so low in yield. That includes Nuclear power which was also mentioned on the show. Personally I wonder how much research they really do into how much power output comes from Nuclear power and other sources of power. Also in there seemingly limited research I don't recall them ever mentioning the option of using a fusion reactor.
For those who've been told that that doesn't exist, think again, and while your at it watch more Discovery Channel. Just last night (Sunday night) they had on the discovery channel a special 4 part series having something to do with Future Tech. Anyways the first episode showed several power sources they are using around the world including a fusion reactor they've built in Europe and it even showed them power it up briefly. Yep, it worked. They say it can provide unlimited power for the cost of a little water. It will be another 50 years before they build one for public use, but since when did that stop Stargate from using it?
Also on the episode of Atlantis "Tao of Rodney", Rodney had increased knowledge and was able to come up with a new kind of math, was able to make the shields more powerful for the BC-304, and increased the efficiency of the Atlantis power system, yet was unable to tell Atlantis how to build a ZPM or even how to recharge one. That's rather sad if you ask me. If they only knew how to recharge one they could hook it up to a fusion reactor and let it sit for a while and recharge. So why haven't they factored that into the show?

If the fuel of fusion is water, then Atlantis would be supremly powerful sitting on that ocean.

[Avatar28]

1st of all I think 900 gigawatt's is a fair assumption. 2ndly you've brought out a good point about that alternate reality episode having the Stargate being public knowledge and the alien technology most likely being integrated into the present power system. Therefore, I must conclude that the power systems for earth in that alternate reality couldn't have been any less than 900 gigawatt's and with alien tech. integrated into modern power systems it could bring it up... lets say 100 gigawatt's greater. That gives them a total of around 1000 gigawatt's which is substantially different from the 700 gigawatt's statement by Carter.

Well, not quite. I got about 450 gigawatts for our current real world power generation capacity. Carter said she needed 700 gigawatts. Assuming that is 80% of the power generation capability of the nation, that would put it at 875 gigawatts (700 x 1.25). She actually said nearly 80% I think. So I figured a little extra padding gives you around 900 gigawatts. Since that's like twice what we have available in the real world, I figure that number must already include alien technologies added to the power grid.

[sperry1975]

McKay mentionned that an overloading Naqahdah generator Mk-I would create a 20 KT explosion (Hide and Seek).

Though it's certain that this is even less efficient, though more violent, than a low yield constant use of such a device, it means at least a total energy of 83.68 TJ, or 83,680 GJ (gigajoules).

A naqahdah generator Mk-II apparently works at 600%, in controlled overload, and gets depleted in a few minutes or so, when tied to a lantian control chair used to fire drones.

Power is one thing, but how long did they have to keep the phase cloak on? Maybe for a very very long time, you know, as the Ori would possibly leave one ship there.

That's why a ZPM, though not really taxed at all, would probably be the only source able to provide that moderate power, but for a very long time. However, I suspect that a big ship's naqahdah generator would do fine as well.
After all, Earth had the Prometheus still in action. Maybe they just don't wanted to stick it on the ground. Which is stupid, when you think about it, as the fate of Earth was in balance.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the way I understood it on the show was that they simply needed to charge the device to get it working. Once charged (like a battery) the device will go on working without the need of as much power to run. Many devices require more energy to start than to continue running.
Also you've brought up another good point regarding the Prometheus. They did have Prometheus and I don't remember them saying anything about taking it away before activating the device so if that's true then what better place to have it then on the ground providing more power?
Even if they didn't have the Prometheus on the ground, which I agree would be stupid not to, why not assemble a naqahdah generator large enough for a ship and use that for additional power?

[Jimbo-DR]

Regardless, from what we've seen ZPM's do I still think they provide infinitely more power than what we can even fathom today. You have to remember that while Nuclear reactions and Naquada are all well and good, having a mini universe contained in a bottle is a vastly more complicated concept, and likely to provide power on scales that we can't even come close to. Hence every time we found one Mckay gets a stiffy.

[Ravroz]

I gotta agree with you on that one. I mean anything that can power a city sized ship like Atlantis through hyperspace clear into another galaxy has to contain vast amounts of energy probably off any scale in existence. Have they ever stated how much power a naquadah generator is capable of pumping out? It would be interesting to see how many it would take to power the entire US, or even the world.

[IcyNeko]

Fusion technology being usable? While fusion research has been conducted for a long while, fushion tech is still a little out of our reach. You're talking about creating a miniature sun in controlled environment. The amount of energy it would take to magnetically stabilize the fusion reactor would be atrocious.

If any of the fusion generators were to fail, and the field imbalance, the entire fusion facility would be annihilated, along with a sizeable chunk of the country. :|

[Vala_M]

Are you aware that: “The industry group said 103 nuclear plants nationwide generated 787.6 billion kilowatt hours of electricity last year, just off the 788.5 billion kwh record set in 2004.” That's 788.5 billion kilowatt hours or 787,600,000,000 kwh which translates into 787,600 gigawatts. That sounds like more than one ZPMs to me, don't you think? Not to mention a possible fusion reactor at Area 51 or those nice little generators that Carter put together based on the technology acquired from Season 3 Episode 5 Learning Curve, or the second generation of those generators which are apparently able to power an atlantis chair if used in pairs. By itself it doesn't last to long. What was the name of those generators anyways and how much power are they said to be able to produce? Please don't tell me it's the same amount of power a car can produce.

Those are the Mk II Naqahdah generators which give an output 6 times greater than an ordinary Naqahdah generator.

Vala,

[Mister Oragahn]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the way I understood it on the show was that they simply needed to charge the device to get it working. Once charged (like a battery) the device will go on working without the need of as much power to run. Many devices require more energy to start than to continue running.

You're probably right.
I admit I haven't paid much attention to that episode.
Super Deus Ex Machinas bore the hell out of me.

Also you've brought up another good point regarding the Prometheus. They did have Prometheus and I don't remember them saying anything about taking it away before activating the device so if that's true then what better place to have it then on the ground providing more power?
Even if they didn't have the Prometheus on the ground, which I agree would be stupid not to, why not assemble a naqahdah generator large enough for a ship and use that for additional power?

Because it ruins the plot.