Ori Army vs. WWII era Army

[IcyNeko]

Here's the problem with your war of attrition argument. Bullets aren't limitless. And with the population of an entire galaxy at their disposal, pretty soon that pretty machine gun will run out of bullets faster than the factories can produce (before the Ori take out the factories). Then what? Nazis engaged in hand-to-hand combat? 1 million troops at their disposal vs several billion (potentially)?

[darth_timon]

If this were a war fought entirely on the ground, between roughly equal numbers, a WWII era army would smash Ori forces. The only difficulty would be the Priors, who surely cannot defend themselves forever against artillery and tank bombardment.

A WWII army is simply too well equipped with versatile weaponry for an Ori army, with their badly designed weaponry and lack of combined arms, to handle. It's only if air support enters the equation that the Ori win this. Ori fighters may or may not be shielded but they should possess firepower and agility to put WWII fighters to shame. If Ori ships enter the battle then even a modern day army would be flattened, but with air support for either side a WWII army takes this easily, unless numbers are so vastly in the Ori's favour that they win through attrition.

[IcyNeko]

Energy weapons hardly constitute "poorly designed", especially if they've trained to use them. PLus, again, when the human army can get outnumbered 10000 to 1 (potentially), you can have all the WW2 tech you want, you'll still lose.

Think Starship Troopers. For the most part, teh humans got their butts kicked, and they had the "superior firepower".

[darth_timon]

The size of the Ori amy has never been properly quantified. They have some ships carrying soldiers that are invading planets and converting some of the people they capture into new soldiers.

Their weapons are, from a design point of view, horrible. However good a soldier might become with one, fact is, a staff weapon like that is never going to be as efficient or as easy to wield as a rifle or machine gun.

Starships troopers just goes to reinforce my point. Superior technology does not mean victory is inevitable, especially when the enemy outnumbers you. A typical WWII era army numbered in the millions and tanks and artillery to back them up. An Ori army may not actually be any bigger than that and they don't have tanks or ranged weapons to back them up. The only sure fire way for them to win is to have air support.

[IcyNeko]

The size of the Ori amy has never been properly quantified. They have some ships carrying soldiers that are invading planets and converting some of the people they capture into new soldiers.

No, it hasn't. But logic dictates that if they RULE THEIR OWN GALAXY, they are usually able to get more people THAN SAY OH I DUNNO ONE SMALL COUNTRY? NOT EVEN A FULL CONTINENT? HRMMM??

Their weapons are, from a design point of view, horrible. However good a soldier might become with one, fact is, a staff weapon like that is never going to be as efficient or as easy to wield as a rifle or machine gun.

Yes, say that to every major SG skermish where Jaffa wiped out/pushed back SG teams with their "primitive" staff weapons.

Starships troopers just goes to reinforce my point. Superior technology does not mean victory is inevitable, especially when the enemy outnumbers you. A typical WWII era army numbered in the millions and tanks and artillery to back them up. An Ori army may not actually be any bigger than that and they don't have tanks or ranged weapons to back them up. The only sure fire way for them to win is to have air support.

Star Wars Episode 6: Battle of Endor. An entire tribal army took out an imperial outpost despite the fact that they had walkers. You can keep defending your "hur hur we have wepunz" point of view, but it will always be wrong. Overwhelming numbers means overwhelming numbers with or without air cover. Mechanized warfare works when the armies are similar size. When the one army is at a huge proportion to the other, small "toys" won't buy you much.

As primitive as a staff weapon might be, enough hits to a tank, which doesn't require much aiming, would destroy the tank.

[Evil_Genius_McKay]

As people have pointed out the Ori army would vastly outnumber any WWII size force, in addition the priors themselves could win the battle even if the generalized troops suck in comparison. Enter into the equation any fighters and Ori win hands down I'm sorry. The tech is still more powerful despite any accuracy inadequacys more than enough to take out the WWII era vehicles.

[Ouroboros]

The numbers the Ori could have (I'm not convinced it's anywhere near billions, even millions seems a stretch given what they've shown) would actually work against them in this set up.

They're being dropped into Africa with essentially no infastructure to back them up and being expected to not onyl survive but effectively wage war against a nation fully geared up to do so. Packing that many guys suddenly into the same place is going to do nothing more than invite mass starvation and disease to kill off most of them.

Sticking to the original example of the Nazis they're going to have to cross northern Africa to even have a chance at getting into Nazi Germany.

Oh so what if the use ring platforms dropped in by fighters.

Ok so they're going to have to get fighters into Nazi airspace and then drop these things, something they'll probably be able to do. The problem then becomes that the platforms don't really move that many guys at a time.

They'll have to drop one in a secluded place somewhere near something they intend to attack and rally up a force before they can move on their objective. That gives ample time for somebody to notice either the original fighter in the area (they had radar) or the massing of troops.

Mass Ori troops in the feild are just sitting meat. There's so many ways for the Nazis to kill them that they'll never survive if they're discovered before they attack. Even if they're not they're going to be facing something defended by likely multiple machinegun nests, soldiers with powerful long ranged rifles or sub machineguns, artillery, and possibly tanks or other armoured vehicles. They haven't got a prayer.

Also in a related note don't those ring platforms need a ship in orbit, or at least some degree of LOS to one another to work?

If you drop one in Africa and one in Germany the "matter stream" beam thing that goes between them is going to have to go through what, like 1000 miles of the solid Earth thanks to the curvature.

[IcyNeko]

I like bananas.

[Evil_Genius_McKay]

Ok lets look at a WWII comparison. The Russians had far more numbers than the Germans in the Eastern front. For the most part the Russian troops were far less trained and in poorer condition than Germany's. Initially the Germans exacted heavy tolls on the Russians, but the fact that they had so many men to throw at the Germans eventually wore them down and was a major factor in Germany loosing WWII. The same thing would happen with a WWII battle with the Ori.

The terrain does make a difference to and what the soldiers are used to fighting in and what kind of tactics and strategies are used.

[Rudy Pena]

The numbers the Ori could have (I'm not convinced it's anywhere near billions, even millions seems a stretch given what they've shown) would actually work against them in this set up.

They're being dropped into Africa with essentially no infastructure to back them up and being expected to not onyl survive but effectively wage war against a nation fully geared up to do so. Packing that many guys suddenly into the same place is going to do nothing more than invite mass starvation and disease to kill off most of them.

Sticking to the original example of the Nazis they're going to have to cross northern Africa to even have a chance at getting into Nazi Germany.

Oh so what if the use ring platforms dropped in by fighters.

Ok so they're going to have to get fighters into Nazi airspace and then drop these things, something they'll probably be able to do. The problem then becomes that the platforms don't really move that many guys at a time.

They'll have to drop one in a secluded place somewhere near something they intend to attack and rally up a force before they can move on their objective. That gives ample time for somebody to notice either the original fighter in the area (they had radar) or the massing of troops.

Mass Ori troops in the feild are just sitting meat. There's so many ways for the Nazis to kill them that they'll never survive if they're discovered before they attack. Even if they're not they're going to be facing something defended by likely multiple machinegun nests, soldiers with powerful long ranged rifles or sub machineguns, artillery, and possibly tanks or other armoured vehicles. They haven't got a prayer.

Also in a related note don't those ring platforms need a ship in orbit, or at least some degree of LOS to one another to work?

If you drop one in Africa and one in Germany the "matter stream" beam thing that goes between them is going to have to go through what, like 1000 miles of the solid Earth thanks to the curvature.

The Nazi's only had radar on their battleships. The only forces that had radar on the ground was us(Americans) in Hawaii(Pacific Ocean). We also had radar on our battleships and carriers like everyone else.

[IcyNeko]

Ok lets look at a WWII comparison. The Russians had far more numbers than the Germans in the Eastern front. For the most part the Russian troops were far less trained and in poorer condition than Germany's. Initially the Germans exacted heavy tolls on the Russians, but the fact that they had so many men to throw at the Germans eventually wore them down and was a major factor in Germany loosing WWII. The same thing would happen with a WWII battle with the Ori.

The terrain does make a difference to and what the soldiers are used to fighting in and what kind of tactics and strategies are used.

The russians also would have adapted their strategies and battle tactics, as would the Ori. So again, this discussion goes circular.

[Evil_Genius_McKay]

Heck, the Polish forces in WWII were still using horse-drawn carts. The main rifle of the German infantry the Kar 98 was a bolt-action rifle. The Germans had powerful tanks, but their heavy hitters like the Tiger were at times unreliable.

[Mister Oragahn]

- Only that we've seen.

And heard. And it's all we need. Anything else would be pure invention.

And how is, say, being able to strangle who-knows-how-many soldiers at once not army-affecting? Adria didn't even look winded from killing four Jaffa at once. Who knows how many she could take out alone?

Thus far, it's four, nothing more. Nazi move in larger groups.

- Okay, not arguing that. But Kalel had never used his powers before, either. The Priors have.

Proves nothing.

- He had just barely overcome the anti-Prior device. I think it's safe to say Mitchell hit him while he was still weak.

He wasn't weak. He TK his staff back, and again, magi-strangled someone. He wasn't weak. Just distracted.

I thought Vala said that during "Crusade"... I could be wrong though, I'll rewatch it. And again, let's speculate:

- Galaxies in stagate have hundreds of inhabited worlds with populations of around 1000 - several million/billion.

- Even if the Ori galaxy only had followers on a few dozen planets, with populations of only 1000 each, that's 24-36 thousand soldiers, and I think, working from the basis of hundreds of worlds, they have a lot more than that.

I don't speculate that way. If I'd do, the Ori would have built several supergates, and sent thousands of ships magi-built by the Ori and the Priors.

This does not exist, as the Ori as absurdingly nerfed at the moment.

[Mister Oragahn]

Star Wars Episode 6: Battle of Endor. An entire tribal army took out an imperial outpost despite the fact that they had walkers. You can keep defending your "hur hur we have wepunz" point of view, but it will always be wrong. Overwhelming numbers means overwhelming numbers with or without air cover. Mechanized warfare works when the armies are similar size. When the one army is at a huge proportion to the other, small "toys" won't buy you much.

As primitive as a staff weapon might be, enough hits to a tank, which doesn't require much aiming, would destroy the tank.

Please. The stormtroopers were pathetic. They had no organization, no formation, no manoeuver applied against even small groups of teddybears.
The Nazi were extremely efficient. Plus they didn't fight against character shields.

[Evil_Genius_McKay]

Ok assuming that both sides have equal forces, the Germans are in trouble if their supply line get cut at any time leaving the tanks dead in the water without fuel. The tanks of the Germans still have serious mobility problems in fact an army composed completely of infantry if they had a heavy a hitting weapon(Ori Staff) could wipe out any armor on the field. One blast to the treads would wipe out mobility completely. In the air none of the Germans planes would be a match for Ori fighters, even the Me 262.

I'm thinking given the size of Ori ships though they could gate down a substantial number of troups wherever they wanted behind enemy lines- you name it. Even though the number of people in the Ori army isn't proven the ships themselves are enormous enough to transport serious numbers.