BC-304 vs. Imperial Star Destroyer

[fugiman]

I think we are getting a little off topic here, we know that the ZPM has huge amounts of power so lets just agree to that

[darth_timon]

I'm not sure if this has been done, so forgive me if it has, but after the somewhat unbalanced thread between the Daedalus and the Galactica, I thought it was time to pit the Daedalus against an enemy with a few more teeth.

If these two ships met in neutral territory and for whatever reason deemed the other vessel a threat, we'd have a fight on our hands, as the Empire is not the sort to cut and run, but will instead attack.

The Imperial-class Star Destroyer has weaponry rated at a minimum of 200 gigatons for her heavy turbolaser cannons, with her lighter guns being in the megaton range. An ISD has at least six heavy guns and numerous lighter cannons.

Going from the highest possible calculations for firepower in 'Beach Head', and then taking into account the superior shielding that earth ships demonstrated in 'Camelot', we have ourselves a Daedalus that can withstand 500 gigatons-worth of firepower at the most. That means an ISD could nearly bring down the Daedalus' shields with just two shots from her heavy weaponry. This is by the way, assuming that the ISD's heavy guns are not even more powerful, since the 200 gigaton figure comes from Star Wars Incredible Cross Sections 2 (canon by the way, made for Attack of the Clones) and relates to troop transport firepower. The ISD is a newer ship, and a dedicated warship, rather than a transport, so it would make sense that it had stronger weapons.

It is not beyond the realm of possibility that several mark 9 naquadriah warheads could breach an ISD's shields. However, earth-ships do not typically carry Mark 9s as regular ordnance, so that's a moot point.

Differing views are welcome, lets hear other points of view!

[Øsiris øf the Øri]

its been done a few times...search button

[marty2006]

Lol give him a break hes new

[Jimbo-DR]

Stars Wars was made without ANY attempt to be realistic in any way shape or form. I mean I know that these are all TV series and movies that deal with the impossible but Star Wars never even bothered to explain how anything worked. We just knew that they had hundreds of ridiculously powerful ships in addition to a planet sized space station that could travel across the galaxy and destroy planetoids with one shot from its main weapon. I know who I'm putting my money on.

[Mister Oragahn]

Stars Wars was made without ANY attempt to be realistic in any way shape or form. I mean I know that these are all TV series and movies that deal with the impossible but Star Wars never even bothered to explain how anything worked. We just knew that they had hundreds of ridiculously powerful ships in addition to a planet sized space station that could travel across the galaxy and destroy planetoids with one shot from its main weapon. I know who I'm putting my money on.

Daedalus, of course. Star Destroyers have never displayed a firepower superior to anything able to destroy/vaporize small asteroids, and eventually above to barely better than vaporize a small town, which puts all this in the very low megaton range.
Star Wars' expanded universe even repeatedly paints Star Destroyers as easily menaced by the total firepower of wings of starfighters and bombers, that is, again, at best in the megaton range (and we're yet to see anything like that, especially since certain sources depict starfighter warheads worth of a few kilotons at best).
Even more, some other EU books simply put a limit on how much energy a Star Destroyed can deliver over a stretched period of time, and this level of firepower wouldn't even reach the gigaton level (Sernpidal event). So we're again in a total of several megatons at best, divided over a significant amount of time

In opposition, you have a regular 304, three times sturdier than a ha'tak, so with shields, at the very very least, between 241.92 GT (low end) and 3.42 TT (medium end, all figures derived from ha'tak shielding capability from the episode Enemies). I'm not even talking about the high end estimations here.

Same 304 also comes with a broad range of nukes and beaming technology, assumed ranging from low kilotons to low megatons and mid megatons (like 26 MT) and eventually low to mid gigatons (goa'uld busters being a common refined business ten years later after their first use).
Eventually, each 304 could be transporting on gatebuster, which means instantaneous Star Destroyed vaporization if the nuke detonates near the imperial ship.

In every way, the SD is mince meat.

If I want to be like pox on the Empire, I can claim that those gatebusters of the size of sidewinders could be carried by F-302s. I let you imagine what happens when the ISD gets hit by multiple explosions worth of 812 GT each, at the very least.

That's basically what you get when in an universe, a few kilograms of raw ore can make a 315 KT warhead jump to more than one gigaton worth of hell.

[BlankDots]

Daedalus, of course. Star Destroyers have never displayed a firepower superior to anything able to destroy/vaporize small asteroids, and eventually above to barely better than vaporize a small town, which puts all this in the very low megaton range.
Star Wars' expanded universe even repeatedly paints Star Destroyers as easily menaced by the total firepower of wings of starfighters and bombers, that is, again, at best in the megaton range (and we're yet to see anything like that, especially since certain sources depict starfighter warheads worth of a few kilotons at best).
Even more, some other EU books simply put a limit on how much energy a Star Destroyed can deliver over a stretched period of time, and this level of firepower wouldn't even reach the gigaton level (Sernpidal event). So we're again in a total of several megatons at best, divided over a significant amount of time

In opposition, you have a regular 304, three times sturdier than a ha'tak, so with shields, at the very very least, between 241.92 GT (low end) and 3.42 TT (medium end, all figures derived from ha'tak shielding capability from the episode Enemies). I'm not even talking about the high end estimations here.

Same 304 also comes with a broad range of nukes and beaming technology, assumed ranging from low kilotons to low megatons and mid megatons (like 26 MT) and eventually low to mid gigatons (goa'uld busters being a common refined business ten years later after their first use).
Eventually, each 304 could be transporting on gatebuster, which means instantaneous Star Destroyed vaporization if the nuke detonates near the imperial ship.

In every way, the SD is mince meat.

If I want to be like pox on the Empire, I can claim that those gatebusters of the size of sidewinders could be carried by F-302s. I let you imagine what happens when the ISD gets hit by multiple explosions worth of 812 GT each, at the very least.

That's basically what you get when in an universe, a few kilograms of raw ore can make a 315 KT warhead jump to more than one gigaton worth of hell.

Obviously you haven't read star wars books or read the comics in detail.

A star destroyer is capable of carrying out what is known as 'Base Delta Zero' Which is the absolute destruction of a planet.

When a ISD performs a BDZ it melts a planets surface into complete slag. ONE ISD on ONE planet. Which leads me to say this. That the ISD can change the output of its guns to suit differing purposes.

Extract taken from theforce.net

"Considering a plausible heat capacity (about 732 J/kg/K) and density (about 2.5g/cm3) for rock, melting the crust of a habitable terrestrial world to a depth of only one metre (an insignificant fraction of the whole crust) involves an enormous amount of energy. Raising the temperature of this material by merely one degree would require the uniform injection of about 1x1021joules of energy. Reaching melting point requires a temperature rise on the order of one and a half thousand degrees. Then further heat is required to accomplish the change of phase from solid to liquid at the melting point. Including this latent heat, the combined power of the turbolasers of a star destroyer firing throughout a circumplanetary orbit of what must be at least a few minutes' duration cannot be done without a total energy injection of

E(melt) > 1.7 x 10^24 J. "

1.7x10^24 Joules i s 1.7 yottajoules.

A gigaton of TNT is = 4.184×10^18 J

your 812 gigatons for the gatebusters is therefore =

3.397408 ExaJoules

or 3.397408x10^21 Joules

Which means that you'd need 500 of these gatebusters to cause the same destruction as the Star Destroyer can acheive. I don't think Earth has that much naquadriah/naquadah and even if it did they couldn't fit it on the SD.

Therefore its easily proved a ISD has more firepower.

The star destroyer as stated in CANON

has 200 Gigaton per shot Turbolasers.


Well i think its suffice to say that WITHOUT odyssey shields Daedalus is junk.

A Daedalus simply cant take multiple 200 gigaton shots.

The idea that an ISD is in the megaton range is far fetched. I believe that an ISD modifies the output of its turbolasers per application. It'd make sense that you wouldn't use a 200 gigaton nuke to take out a x wing.

[knowles2]

Daedalus. Equip exactly the same as undending.

Can survive direct sun mass corona eruption, engage multiple ori vessels at once and come out on top, and those ori ships could stand thirty Ha'taks, and a direct ram from a ha tak. Nothing seen in the star war movies could have surive that (apart from the death star, perhaps) kind of firepower and survive and yet the ori vessels were mint meat to the Daedalus.

Daedalus in unending upgrades = Imperial star Destroyer in big explosion and some nice fireworks.

[wise one]

a good fight would be several ori ships vs a elicpse star destroyer (if thats how you spell) it can ram ships without sustaining damage and its main laser weapon is 2/3 power of the death star weapon its self

its ability to crack planets but not permanetly destroy one

try get hataks, ori ships, upgraded earth ships to kill that that thing.

[Mister Oragahn]

Obviously you haven't read star wars books or read the comics in detail.

A star destroyer is capable of carrying out what is known as 'Base Delta Zero' Which is the absolute destruction of a planet.

When a ISD performs a BDZ it melts a planets surface into complete slag. ONE ISD on ONE planet. Which leads me to say this. That the ISD can change the output of its guns to suit differing purposes.

Extract taken from theforce.net

"Considering a plausible heat capacity (about 732 J/kg/K) and density (about 2.5g/cm3) for rock, melting the crust of a habitable terrestrial world to a depth of only one metre (an insignificant fraction of the whole crust) involves an enormous amount of energy. Raising the temperature of this material by merely one degree would require the uniform injection of about 1x1021joules of energy. Reaching melting point requires a temperature rise on the order of one and a half thousand degrees. Then further heat is required to accomplish the change of phase from solid to liquid at the melting point. Including this latent heat, the combined power of the turbolasers of a star destroyer firing throughout a circumplanetary orbit of what must be at least a few minutes' duration cannot be done without a total energy injection of

E(melt) > 1.7 x 10^24 J. "

1.7x10^24 Joules i s 1.7 yottajoules.

A gigaton of TNT is = 4.184×10^18 J

your 812 gigatons for the gatebusters is therefore =

3.397408 ExaJoules

or 3.397408x10^21 Joules

Which means that you'd need 500 of these gatebusters to cause the same destruction as the Star Destroyer can acheive. I don't think Earth has that much naquadriah/naquadah and even if it did they couldn't fit it on the SD.

Therefore its easily proved a ISD has more firepower.

The star destroyer as stated in CANON

has 200 Gigaton per shot Turbolasers.

You don't even know your stuff properly. That 200 Gigatons figure was attributed to the older classes Acclamators, by Saxton himself. Precisely, quad guns, each barrel with a yield of 50 GT. So 4 x 50 GT.

Well i think its suffice to say that WITHOUT odyssey shields Daedalus is junk.

A Daedalus simply cant take multiple 200 gigaton shots.

The idea that an ISD is in the megaton range is far fetched. I believe that an ISD modifies the output of its turbolasers per application. It'd make sense that you wouldn't use a 200 gigaton nuke to take out a x wing.

Can you prove the existence of gigaton level weapons on such ships, besides the claims of one single EU guide written by Saxton?

No.

For the note, I've been, at best, ready to accept very low gigatons of firepower for ISDs. Not more. There's no proof that there's more than that.

The article you mention, is from TheForce.net, and written by Curtis Saxton as well. He was given the oportunity to write the technical details of the latest two Incredible Cross Section books for Star Wars.

Fact is, even on his own page, you can easily spot the large errors, and dishonest claims he makes.
It's not because it's hosted at TFN that it has more truth to it than a site that does not lie there.

Check this site: http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWbd0.html

Written by a Trekkie. But I suppose that like any honest and intelligent person, you can put his origins behind you and actually focus on the content, not on who wrote it and engage in ad hominems.

Put simply, the absolute destruction of a planet has never been a part of Base Delta Zero.
The definitions mentionned the mobilisation of many capital ships, not just one, and for a duration of largely more than one hour, with the support of deployed fighter wings.
Besides, it never gave an ISD the ability to melt the entire surface of a world to a one meter depth.
That is pure invention. A genuine definition of a BDZ mentions a surface of a planet turned into 'smoking debris". You don't get debris when you melt something.

The result was only the destruction of industrial assets. The destruction of BDZ doesn't go as far as you'd think, especially considering that a definition of Base Delta Zero mentions the possible capture of droids during that operation, and the use of mop up squads after the bombardment, two things which would be utterly and totally impossible with the kind of bombardment certain persons admirably managed to ignore.
The fact is, the definition from the late ICS is a compelte misinterpretation of the real original definitions. The ICS definition, written by Saxton, is in line with the numeruos figures given for firepower and else. Funnily, everytime we have the oportunity to verify the exactness of Saxton's claims by looking at the movies, we can easily observe the absurd discrepancy between the reality of Star Wars and his wishful interpretation.

You're not the first one to make such misinformed claims. I can almost type that stuff by name.

It all depends if you're ready to actually think about it, instead of rehasing the erroneous beliefs of a bunch of guys who have a rather twisted view of Star Wars.

That said, I stand my claim that in the vast evidence of both films and the EU, an ISD is outrageously torched by the Daedalus.

[ColCaldwell]

Please, you people have no idea what you're talking about. This stellar vehicle will take ALL the ships down from the Gate and SW universes:

The Cream of the Crop that puts all the ships to shame:

Spoiler:

The Scooty Puff Jr.!

[VSHARMA]

Please, you people have no idea what you're talking about. This stellar vehicle will take ALL the ships down from the Gate and SW universes:

Sorry Mate. Daedalus beams Nuke (Mark IX)

Game Over.

Simple As That

EDIT: OK OK. I lie. I've never seen Star Wars. Gonna watch on Weekend. Then I get back to you. Anyone with a Pic of a Star Distroyer???????????

[wise one]

Sorry Mate. Daedalus beams Nuke (Mark IX)

Game Over.

Simple As That

EDIT: OK OK. I lie. I've never seen Star Wars. Gonna watch on Weekend. Then I get back to you. Anyone with a Pic of a Star Distroyer???????????

good luck!

[Peoples_General]

Star Destroyers are triangular shaped. Much like a slice of pizza... which means the 304s can have it for lunch. lol

[ACharmedAsgard]

We don't know how trong a star destroyer's shields are, however Beaming gives the 304 an advantage