Daedalus vs. Andromeda

[Ouroboros]

Umm, Ouroboros, why do you have an Andromeda Ep. name for your name if you hate Andromeda? (just curious, does it mean something else too?)

Yes, it's nothing but sheer irony to, that the episode titled "Ouroboros" was pretty much the point where the series turned to crap.

Anyway, here are the battle as I see it:

Andromeda Ascendant (in top condition; full crew, full armament, all repaired) vs. Daedelus (battle-ready; full power, extra arament, 12 F-302s)

Hours:Minutes: Seconds

00:00:0 Andromeda spots Daedelus from over 500 LM (light-minutes) away using sensors boosted by sensor drones.

00:00:1 Daedelus spots three objects (the sensor drones, but they don't know that) on the outer edge of its sensors.

00:01:0 Andromeda launches attack drones which reach Deadelus in around 10 minutes.

00:07:0 Deadelus spots the drones and detects what may be a weapons buildup, so Cauldwell raises shields.

00:11:0 The drones reach Daedelus and open fire with AP cannons.

00:12:0 Daedelus reports no damage to the shield (AP won't affect shields, only the ships hull

00:12:5 Hunt learns, to his amazement, that the AP cannons impacted on an energy field approximately 100 yds. from the hull.

00:13:0 Shepphard takes Dagger Squadron out of the ship and engages the drones

00:13:5 Andromeda orders the drones to break off Daedelus and target the fighers

00:14:0 Daggers-4 and 6 are instantly destroyed by AP fire from the drones, but Shep and Dg-2 manage to take out two drones each with their first pairs of missiles. Dg-3 and Dg-5 take out the remaining two drones.

00:15:0 The Andromeda Ascendant has closed to 100 LM and Hunt orders Valentine and Rhade to take out two squadrons of Slip-Fighters (50 fighters per Squadron, see 'Home Fires')

00:16:0 Shep takes Dgs 2, 3, &5 along with Blue Squadron (the other six F-302s) and engages the slip fighters.

00:16:1 Valentine takes out Dg-2, and Bl-1 and 3 are killed as well.

00:16:15 Shep takes down two Slp-Fgts with his first two shots, and takes out anouther comming around.

00:17:0 Hunt orders an Argosy-2 flight Pattern with a full missile spread targeting the Daedelus

00:17:05 Cauldwell orders the crew to open fire on the Andromeda Ascendant with the two main railguns and all missile batteries, and to target the slipfighters with the auxilliary railguins.

00:18:0 Andromeda sails right past Daedelus' first salvo, and PDLs (Point defense lasers) take out the railgun slugs. Andromeda's first salvo tears Daedelus' shields to pieces, and the second spread takes out half her railgun emplacements and missile launchers.

00:18:55 Cauldwell orders Hermiod to beam a nuke on board Andromeda, and a massive explosion rips through her nose, causing hull breaches in several sections.

00:18:6 Andromeda determines the beaming frequency and instantly begins jamming it.

00:19:0 Hermiod reports that he cannot beam any more nukes onto the enemy ship.

00:19:01 Andomeda locates Daedelus' bridge and blows the entire front section off.

00:19:04 Secondary eplosions envelope Daedelus, destroying it.

00:20:0 Shep and the other F-302s stand down and are taken on board the Andromeda Ascendant as prisoners of war

00:21:0 Andromeda leaves

There's my scenario. (of course, if this weren't a scenario, and instead an Atlantis Ep., Shepphard would win by some 'deus ex machina' victory)

I hate to beat a dead horse but I think you've given the Daedalus way more credit than it deserves here.

I see it going more something like this.

Caldwell would detect the sensor drones Hunt launched most likely. He'd then probably assume they were some sort of small ships like darts, he'd also probably take note of their extremely high sublight velocity. Shields would be raised and he'd move in to check them out doing better scans.

Soon after they'd pick up a series of even smaller objects incoming at .99c from about a lightminute out. He might also pick up Rommie herself at this point depending on how well commonwealth stealth technology messes with asguard sensors. Hopefully he'll put two and two together at this point and realize they're missiles, a LOT of missiles.

Caldwell would then have two options. He could go to hyperspace in the intervening minutes and survive. Or he could stick around and try to fight it out. If he sticks around he'd probably order full power to forward sheilds in preparation for the impact of the missile wave while ordering the ship to close the distance with Rommie.

When the missile wave hits the Daedalus is likely to be destroyed right there. Stargate shields have never shown themselves to be particularly good at stopping kinetic impact attacks and Androemda's missile attacks are the kinetic impact attack from hell. Somewhere around 300 of these things slamming into the Daedalus's shields at the same time seems like they'd get the fat lady singing pretty quick.

If Daedalus does survive the initial salvo somehow Hunt will follow up. Still a lightminute or so out, he'll fire either another KKM salvo or step up to something bigger like strike arrows. If he does the latter one or two of them will probably atomize the Daedalus and they're effectively just as fast an uninterceptable as the smaller KKMs would be here.

Caldwell will never be able to close with the Andromeda because Hunt's ship is faster than his and has a vastly longer weapon's range. The only way he's going to even get into weapons range with Rommie is if Hunt decides he wants to close to spitting distance for some reason.

Launching 304s would be sending the pilots to their deaths as the slipfighters Rommie can launch outclass them just as badly as their mothership does the 304, if not even more so. Between them and point defence lasers that will target and engage them before they get anywhere near Rommie herself, they're doomed.

I'm honestly wondering if just a small wing of slipfighters couldn't take out the Daedalus all by themselves. They can fire the same sort of KKM missile Rommie does, just in more limited amounts. Every single one of those missiles they fire at the Daedalus is going to hit it so it's just a matter of having enough missiles to finish it off, or at least wreck the shields so they can laser the hull apart from lightseconds away.

[PG15]

Slightly OT, but "Ouroboros" is actually a pretty cool concept pertaining to unending, cyclicality, and stuff like that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros

Just because the original poster asked about other meanings of the word besides the episode title.

[turbo1889]

Okay, this may sound like I'm trying to be a party pooper here.

Who really thinks the Daedalus would attack a ship of unknown origin without provocation?

Who really thinks the Andromeda would attack a ship of unknown origin which it greatly outclasses without provocation?

Both commanders just arn't the blow other people up without a reason kind of people. Yah, the Andromeda would fight a Gouald ship, a Wraith ship, and an Ori ship because those races are stupid enough to give the Andromeda reason to attack -- I don't think the commander of the Daedalus is that stupid. Why fight the commonwealth when they could be the most powerful and advanced ally we could have? Last I checked the Andromeda and the Daedalus are both on the "good guy side".

If you want to make a vs. thread do it with people who would actually fight each other -- Wraith/Federation, Ori/Commonwealth, Collonial/Gouald, etc.

[HAL]

the time lords vs everyone else on that list

[Jimbo-DR]

You guys do have some pretty interesting scenarios, the only thing I throw out there is this:

The most advanced races in Stargate(the ones so much more advanced than us thats its really unfathomable, i mean, wormholes, existing as beings made of energy), abandoned projectiles weapons long ago. Thor specifically says that the Asgard would never think of the design of a typical Earth bullet.
They do, however, have very impressive energy weapons.

As for SG shields being bad with kinetic impacts, I point to Siege part III(or 2, i can't remember) where the Atlantis shield withstands HUNDREDS of darts running into it and then withstands HOURS of Wraith weapons fire.

I also point to... Flesh and Blood? Can't remember if that is correct either, its 2:30 AM and I'm tired. Anyway, a fully shielded Ha'tak collides with a Fully shielded Ori ship, only to have its shields buckle and it splatters like a bug on the windshield of the Ori ships shields. THAT would be probably the biggest kinetic impact in the history of Stargate, and the Ori ship didn't even flinch. It did, however, go down in only 4 or 5 shots from the Asgard ENERGY weapons.

So considering those things I'm still going with Daedalus being the far more advanced ship.

[Alterran1.]

The Wraith darts speed was only over ten thousand kilometers an hour

Hatac class ships have no way of travelling anywhere near 99c

Ancients don't even seem to possess the ability of travelling 99c without suffering from relativistic effects.

The onlything the Daedalus has better than Andromeda is it's sublight communications

[SGFerrit]

Spoiler:

It seems the Apollo and Daedalus are both getting the Asgard upgrades the Oddysey has half way through the next season.

Should even the playing field a little.

[SGFerrit]

The Wraith darts speed was only over ten thousand kilometers an hour

Hatac class ships have no way of travelling anywhere near 99c

Ancients don't even seem to possess the ability of travelling 99c without suffering from relativistic effects.

The onlything the Daedalus has better than Andromeda is it's sublight communications

Just wondering here...

Why would the ancients bother wasting time perfecting other ways to travel when hyperdrives are infinitley faster?

"The onlything the Daedalus has better than Andromeda is it's sublight communications"

Spoiler:

Good things it will soon be recieving tremendous upgrades then

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

Yes, it's nothing but sheer irony to, that the episode titled "Ouroboros" was pretty much the point where the series turned to crap.

Yeah, I agree, it was much better when Trance was purple. (Not because she was purple, but because the reason she changed was that they got new writers)

I hate to beat a dead horse but I think you've given the Daedalus way more credit than it deserves here.

I see it going more something like this.

Caldwell would detect the sensor drones Hunt launched most likely. He'd then probably assume they were some sort of small ships like darts, he'd also probably take note of their extremely high sublight velocity. Shields would be raised and he'd move in to check them out doing better scans.

Soon after they'd pick up a series of even smaller objects incoming at .99c from about a lightminute out. He might also pick up Rommie herself at this point depending on how well commonwealth stealth technology messes with asguard sensors. Hopefully he'll put two and two together at this point and realize they're missiles, a LOT of missiles.

Caldwell would then have two options. He could go to hyperspace in the intervening minutes and survive. Or he could stick around and try to fight it out. If he sticks around he'd probably order full power to forward sheilds in preparation for the impact of the missile wave while ordering the ship to close the distance with Rommie.

When the missile wave hits the Daedalus is likely to be destroyed right there. Stargate shields have never shown themselves to be particularly good at stopping kinetic impact attacks and Androemda's missile attacks are the kinetic impact attack from hell. Somewhere around 300 of these things slamming into the Daedalus's shields at the same time seems like they'd get the fat lady singing pretty quick.

If Daedalus does survive the initial salvo somehow Hunt will follow up. Still a lightminute or so out, he'll fire either another KKM salvo or step up to something bigger like strike arrows. If he does the latter one or two of them will probably atomize the Daedalus and they're effectively just as fast an uninterceptable as the smaller KKMs would be here.

Caldwell will never be able to close with the Andromeda because Hunt's ship is faster than his and has a vastly longer weapon's range. The only way he's going to even get into weapons range with Rommie is if Hunt decides he wants to close to spitting distance for some reason.

Launching 304s would be sending the pilots to their deaths as the slipfighters Rommie can launch outclass them just as badly as their mothership does the 304, if not even more so. Between them and point defence lasers that will target and engage them before they get anywhere near Rommie herself, they're doomed.

I'm honestly wondering if just a small wing of slipfighters couldn't take out the Daedalus all by themselves. They can fire the same sort of KKM missile Rommie does, just in more limited amounts. Every single one of those missiles they fire at the Daedalus is going to hit it so it's just a matter of having enough missiles to finish it off, or at least wreck the shields so they can laser the hull apart from lightseconds away.

You're probably right, if Hunt tried to kill them, they'd be dead, I was just assuming Hunt would try to take Daedelus alive. (and I still may have given Shep. too much credit, but I tried to consider that Andromeda's new pilots are fresh from a brand new academy)

[HAL]

Even with the Upgrades rommie outclasses Daedalus



It isnt even about the technology so much its about being completely outmatched matched in tactics and training

[Ouroboros]

Even with the Upgrades rommie outclasses Daedalus



It isnt even about the technology so much its about being completely outmatched matched in tactics and training

That's it exactly, it's what I've been saying all along. Unless these upgrades include weapons that can shoot further than visual distance (they won't), faster engines, stealth/ECM, and a new crew that uses tactics more elaborate than sitting still and shooting they'll still loose.

I also point to... Flesh and Blood? Can't remember if that is correct either, its 2:30 AM and I'm tired. Anyway, a fully shielded Ha'tak collides with a Fully shielded Ori ship, only to have its shields buckle and it splatters like a bug on the windshield of the Ori ships shields. THAT would be probably the biggest kinetic impact in the history of Stargate, and the Ori ship didn't even flinch. It did, however, go down in only 4 or 5 shots from the Asgard ENERGY weapons.

Well the Ori and Atlantis shield are really the best possible shields you can ever get in the series so it's likely you'd need huge amounts of any sort of attack to damage hem. I was thinking more about beachhead where just some small bits of supergate smashing into them 1 shot killed a Ha'tak and almost did the same to prommie despite only a glancing hit.

Given that they can smash on each other for a lot longer with their energy weapons, which are a lot more poweful in terms of raw energy levels, it would seem like they don't like large heavy objects bashing into them for whatever reason.

It's a side point anyway. Even if they're not any weaker to kinetic attacks, like I'm thinking, the Andromeda still has other types of missiles vastly more powerful than the small kintic ones. One of the episodes has a fairly modest sized fleet blow up a whole planet deathstar style with a volly of them so the yeilds are definately up there if they need to be.

I think normally in Androemdaverse these types of missiles aren't regularly employed against other ships because their larger size and reduced speed would make them sitting ducks for point defence and/or fighters. That's not going to be a problem here though.

Yeah, I agree, it was much better when Trance was purple. (Not because she was purple, but because the reason she changed was that they got new writers)

Indeed, changing trance was the first thing the new writing/producing team did for some reason, so it marks out the start of their influence in a perfect and obvious way.

You're probably right, if Hunt tried to kill them, they'd be dead, I was just assuming Hunt would try to take Daedelus alive. (and I still may have given Shep. too much credit, but I tried to consider that Andromeda's new pilots are fresh from a brand new academy)

The way you wrote it would probably be a lot more like it would turn out in an actual show, if that makes sense. It was more exciting and seemed more closely faught. Mine was just a boring squash job, but that is pretty much exactly what I think would actually happen here.

[HAL]

Let smake it fair and kill all of Andromedas crew


EVEN THEN IT WINS

[Rudy Pena]

Let smake it fair and kill all of Andromedas crew


EVEN THEN IT WINS

And even if you kill her crew, the Andromeda can still fight.

[HAL]

that was my point


Its also faster at sublight speed

and faster at faster than light speed {depending on pilot}



It is also more manvable than stargate fighters let alone capital ships......


Cap ship can out manaver fighters {bad spelling/grammer right their but w/e

[Carter1994]

This is probably a dumb question, but...

In the off chance that Andromeda and Daedalus met, why on earth (or elsewhere) would they attack each other? Neither of them ever attack without provocation that I've seen.

Most likely irrelivant, but, still, I'm curious! Could someone please give me a plausible reason for attacking? Thanks!