The Sci. & Tech. Concordance and Discussion Thread

[Seastallion]

I got alot of the information from a Tv show documentary, Horizon - global dimming, and it was really interesting...i dont see what the point in a seed bank is to be totally honest.
if the world becoem alot hotter the enviroment that those planet actually need wont be around to grow them in, even if we terraform another planet it owuld still be unlikely they would geminate.
The space zoo is an interesting idea, and not that hard, we just take say 100 blood samples from everything currently held in captivity. or more accurately sex cells so genetic cloning of them would be viable. then we put them in a space bank, a giant vault in space, perhaps on the moon even...this would ensure any survivor would be able to repopulate if we were in a position to be able to repopulate.

Oh yeah, i love this thread, just for the shere openness of topics, its really great. Its my favourate thread of the section; i wish it would be used for its real purpose but alas its a great thread nonetheless

Yeah, or even better would be to have both, an Earth-based 'Ark' (for just in case for any possible catastrophe), AND the Space Bank. Preperation and Preservation should be the name of the game. I'm also a big supporter of terraforming Mars as well. I'm a strong believer in the 'Moral' of "don't put all your eggs in one basket". A self-sustainable colony on Mars would give humanity a fall-back in case of major catastrophe here on Earth. The frustrating thing about it, is it can be done now. We have the technology to do it. The only thing lacking is the will to do it. If political support could be brought to bare, a colony could be built on Mars now.

Robert Zubrin (I think is his name) has stated that we have all that is necessary to build a space-faring civilization right now, with technology that was developed back in the 60's. The problem, (once again) is political and financial backing. By mining resources off planet, we can alleviate the resource pressures here on Earth. There are Asteroids near Earth that could be converted into space-mining stations to gather raw materials as well as a port of call. Offworld colonies are humanities best hope to preserve ourselves (and other species) in case of global catastrophe and E.L.E.

The only question is... Will we do it in time?

As to the thread itself... We really have no way of knowing how much this thread is getting used for its primary purpose in the first few pages. It may be getting looked at relatively often, or not. As to people asking questions about other threads... I think there was at least one. I'd have to go back through the previous pages to be sure. Your right, though, this thread is a nice place to cover a wide variety of topics. Often discussions cross between topics, and threads devoted to an individual subject don't allow for much variationl. This thread however, is specifically designed for greater variety, both in topic and discussion.

[Wraith Scientist]

Oh yes, remember I brought up Orion a while back:



Speed: 0.1c

We could send a large Orion vessel to a neighbouring star and terraform ourselves some planets. To keep genetic diversity you'd have a sperm/egg bank on board the ship. Maybe a good idea would be to have an all-female crew (because they can have children, and also helps with the psychological effects of living on such a spacecraft) and an X chromosome screened sperm bank. Maybe a rotating (to produce artificial gravity) 'habitat' section onboard the ship? It would be the size of a city so there's plenty of room.

When you reached the target planets you could release some genetically-engineered bacteria to produce oxygen and all the other atmospheric niceties that humans need to live. You'd end up with barren, rocky desert but it's a start. You might then melt the polar ice caps to provide some water.

Thoughts?

[Seastallion]

Oh yes, remember I brought up Orion a while back:



Speed: 0.1c

We could send a large Orion vessel to a neighbouring star and terraform ourselves some planets. To keep genetic diversity you'd have a sperm/egg bank on board the ship. Maybe a good idea would be to have an all-female crew (because they can have children, and also helps with the psychological effects of living on such a spacecraft) and an X chromosome screened sperm bank. Maybe a rotating (to produce artificial gravity) 'habitat' section onboard the ship? It would be the size of a city so there's plenty of room.

When you reached the target planets you could release some genetically-engineered bacteria to produce oxygen and all the other atmospheric niceties that humans need to live. You'd end up with barren, rocky desert but it's a start. You might then melt the polar ice caps to provide some water.

Thoughts?

An all female crew? Sounds like a man's ideal, all right. However, having seen how 'all' female groupings can be... I'm not sure it would work. When I was in basic training, I thought our flight could be quite disharmonious at times. Then I had to do guard duty in a female's dorm, and then I really saw disharmony. Talk about catfights... *whew* "Meeeeooooowwww"...! LOL Yeah... Anyways.

I was thinking of Mars. Our own star system first, but if we don't develop super-luminal craft then any ships we might send would have to be based on finding a terrestrial world suited for reasonable human living before hand. It is reasonable to attempt terraforming Mars, because it is close by, and can offer humanity a second home in the short term. The extra-solar planets will have to wait for those super-luminal craft.

[immhotep]

oh i had a queston, you said a libary of all knowledge humans have right, in one place; would you consider the internet such a libary. The internet is a awsome thing and has: ( i was bored enough to work this out!)
the human mind can store terrabyte of data, which is MASSIVE right
but the internet and the total sum of all human knowledge in bytes is 12exobytes - thats the 7th stage on the scale of 1000 of the previous stage = the next stage.....basicly ALOT and this also how much we can store currently.
question: could we ever create a device to store all human knowledge? The ancients did it, we could at some point i guess...but im talking RL.

[Wraith Scientist]

An all female crew? Sounds like a man's ideal, all right. However, having seen how 'all' female groupings can be... I'm not sure it would work. When I was in basic training, I thought our flight could be quite disharmonious at times. Then I had to do guard duty in a female's dorm, and then I really saw disharmony. Talk about catfights... *whew* "Meeeeooooowwww"...! LOL Yeah... Anyways.

I was thinking of Mars. Our own star system first, but if we don't develop super-luminal craft then any ships we might send would have to be based on finding a terrestrial world suited for reasonable human living before hand. It is reasonable to attempt terraforming Mars, because it is close by, and can offer humanity a second home in the short term. The extra-solar planets will have to wait for those super-luminal craft.

Hmmm ... maybe not such a good idea then ...

Yeah, Mars. You'd have to somehow warm up the planet, which we humans are rather good at. You could release carbon dioxide from martian rock and the 'artificial global warming' would create a nice greenhouse layer. The ice caps would melt to produce seas.

You'd then need a way of producing oxygen, probably again from the rock.

Microbes could do all this for us, in fact, some can thrive quite happily on the martian surface.

What I would quite like to see would be 'floating cities' in the atmosphere of Uranus/Neptune. They have a gravity very similar to ours. The floating cities could 'mine' various materials from the atmosphere. In Uranus/Neptune there is methane, ammonia, water, oxygen, hydrogen (protium, deuterium and tritium) - good for a base there. Only problem is the remoteness and coldness, but energy could be collected from the thermal energy sources at the core.

oh i had a queston, you said a libary of all knowledge humans have right, in one place; would you consider the internet such a libary. The internet is a awsome thing and has: ( i was bored enough to work this out!)
the human mind can store terrabyte of data, which is MASSIVE right
but the internet and the total sum of all human knowledge in bytes is 12exobytes - thats the 7th stage on the scale of 1000 of the previous stage = the next stage.....basicly ALOT and this also how much we can store currently.
question: could we ever create a device to store all human knowledge? The ancients did it, we could at some point i guess...but im talking RL.

Yeah, such a database would be a great idea. Wikipedia stores quite a lot of information - try searching for any subject.

Maybe if we get round to creating artificial intelligences then we might be able to task one to 'learn everything'

[Seastallion]

Yeah, Mars. You'd have to somehow warm up the planet, which we humans are rather good at. You could release carbon dioxide from martian rock and the 'artificial global warming' would create a nice greenhouse layer. The ice caps would melt to produce seas.

You'd then need a way of producing oxygen, probably again from the rock.

Microbes could do all this for us, in fact, some can thrive quite happily on the martian surface.

Yeah, there is already a plan in place to do so right now, all mapped out. The very melting of the ice itself will act to both raise the tempature on Mars, and the air pressure too. Your right, the long term goal would be to raise the overall tempature on mars AND alter the atmosphere. There are microbes that could do it, as there are a great many types of microbes here on Earth that can live in the most extreme of conditions. Some type of Algae, perhaps the sort that lives in permafrost areas could also increase the oxygen ratio on Mars. The more oxygen that fills the atmosphere will also increase the atmosphere. There are arctic plants that can survive harsh weather that could eventually be used to continue altering the atmosphere. Essentially, you would work up the biological chain to produce greater and greater changes.

The first cities would be built partially underground, and using local materials. Green houses could be built with solar collectors being used to collect enough sunlight to raise plants. Pools of water with fish and other creatures could be built to provide extra meat foods. The goal would be to make it self-sufficient as possible. To that end, it would also be prudent to build industrial and refinement centers. Also, it would be possible because of the 1/3rd less gravity to build a space-elevator that would greatly reduce the cost of transport of personnel and carge back and forth between Mars and Earth. Also, if Mars lacks an EM field (as Earth has which keeps He-3 from gathering here), then it would be possible to collect great amounts of Helium-3 to use in Fusion Reactors, which would give Mars a very lucrative export. New technologies that would be created on Mars as a result of the maxim, "necessity is the mother of invention" would also give Mars further income. There is a great deal more to say on the subject.

What I would quite like to see would be 'floating cities' in the atmosphere of Uranus/Neptune. They have a gravity very similar to ours. The floating cities could 'mine' various materials from the atmosphere. In Uranus/Neptune there is methane, ammonia, water, oxygen, hydrogen (protium, deuterium and tritium) - good for a base there. Only problem is the remoteness and coldness, but energy could be collected from the thermal energy sources at the core.

I don't know if floating cities would be viable, but if they are, then they could easily use the Hydrogen to power the station and warm it. The resources that could be collected form the outer planets' atmospheres would also be very lucrative particularly for Rocket fuel. It would become the 'Mideast' of the Solar system, just hopefully without the wars. Certainly worth the trips. They would however, remain dependent on Earth, and possibly Mars too. Since cargo ships would have to pass the Asteroid belt on its way to Earth and Mars, it would be a good idea to build mining facilities to collect the lucrative resources there.

Yeah, such a database would be a great idea. Wikipedia stores quite a lot of information - try searching for any subject.

Maybe if we get round to creating artificial intelligences then we might be able to task one to 'learn everything'

The Internet is great, but it is not invulnerable. I was thinking of a hardwired database of human knowledge to act as a start-up kit just in case of catastrophic events. All knowledge regarding various skills such as metallurgy, wood-work, stone-masonry, engineering, the sciences, and pretty much everything that might be needed to know to rebuild civilization. An actual library of books would also be prudent as well, along with a 'Rosetta stone' to teach people how to read if need be.

[Wraith Scientist]

The Internet is great, but it is not invulnerable. I was thinking of a hardwired database of human knowledge to act as a start-up kit just in case of catastrophic events. All knowledge regarding various skills such as metallurgy, wood-work, stone-masonry, engineering, the sciences, and pretty much everything that might be needed to know to rebuild civilization. An actual library of books would also be prudent as well, along with a 'Rosetta stone' to teach people how to read if need be.

Yes, I've always wondered. If I take a couple of hundred Mr and Mrs averages from their daily lives and strand them on a desert island. We as a species may have microwaves, TVs, computers and cars but how much of that could be rebuilt from scratch? I would estimate - not a lot.

Personally, I like to know as much about everything as I can. With the knowledge that I have now, if I were taken back in time, I could instruct the romans how to make antibiotics, electricity, unimaginably powerful weapons (explosives, solar focusing mirrors, primative missiles). To a people of thousands of years ago, we (people who like to know as much about everything as we can) would be gods (ie. like the Goa'uld).

[Harekin]

Hence I believe the reason they invented the myth about magic...it was simply ppl back then that were smarter than everyone else.

[Wraith Scientist]

Hence I believe the reason they invented the myth about magic...it was simply ppl back then that were smarter than everyone else.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
- Arthur C Clarke

From his three laws:

1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

[Harekin]

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
- Arthur C Clarke

From his three laws:

1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

I like that sir...its always good when ppl use quotes to back stuff up.

[Wraith Scientist]

Off at a tangent but I've just had a revalation

The stargate stores your energy signature in a memory buffer. Mckay and Carter in 48 Hours say that the memory buffer is in the form of crystals.

Guess what, so is a ZPM!

A ZPM extracts energy from an artificially created subspace. It seems to use a type of crystaline technology to do this.

My theory is that the 'memory buffer' in the stargate (and the Wraith dart beam) is actually a hyperspatial buffer after all and uses crystal technology similar to a ZPM to store the matter in an artificially created timeless subspace.

[Harekin]

Doubt they'd go to all that hassle when they could just use memory crystals....btw check out my idea. http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=27121

[immhotep]

Off at a tangent but I've just had a revalation

The stargate stores your energy signature in a memory buffer. Mckay and Carter in 48 Hours say that the memory buffer is in the form of crystals.

Guess what, so is a ZPM!

A ZPM extracts energy from an artificially created subspace. It seems to use a type of crystaline technology to do this.

My theory is that the 'memory buffer' in the stargate (and the Wraith dart beam) is actually a hyperspatial buffer after all and uses crystal technology similar to a ZPM to store the matter in an artificially created timeless subspace.

i read somewhere on gateworld, i think it was in the wormhole -two ways thread about the gate having a dimentional 'waiting room' so yeah i can see how ZPM type crystels would make the effect of that, but in conjunction with the other parts of the gate and DHD system.

[Seastallion]

Off at a tangent but I've just had a revalation

The stargate stores your energy signature in a memory buffer. Mckay and Carter in 48 Hours say that the memory buffer is in the form of crystals.

Guess what, so is a ZPM!

A ZPM extracts energy from an artificially created subspace. It seems to use a type of crystaline technology to do this.

My theory is that the 'memory buffer' in the stargate (and the Wraith dart beam) is actually a hyperspatial buffer after all and uses crystal technology similar to a ZPM to store the matter in an artificially created timeless subspace.

I suppose it could be possible. I always thought that it simply stored the sub-atomic makeup of each individual by means of quantum data storage into the crystals themselves. On the show, it has been more or less explained that the quantum imprinting process leaves a pattern that is permanent, until a new quantum imprinting process erases it, and stores a new pattern. Essentially, it could be possible to be left in storage for hundreds of thousands of years, and then suddenly be recreated exactly as you were when you stepped through the event-horizon of the stargate. Talk about the ultimate means of stasis. Far superior to the Ancients Stasis technology, because you won't have aged a single second. Of course, on a much deeper level, it brings up questions of life and death and the beyond. Would such a person be dead? If so, would then recreating their bodies, mean pulling their souls from some sort of afterlife? I don't know. Perhaps. I suppose, if one were to take the Membari (Babylon 5) view on it, no one is really a solitary soul beyond this physical life. Instead we are all projections of a greater truth and reality, like the pattern variations on the wall by means of a candle projecting its light. Who knows?

[Wraith Scientist]

Here's my theory on how Wraith beaming tech works (reposted from an earlier thread)

Here's my theory of how the Wraith beaming tech works:

The Wraith beam consists of two systems:
- A sensor
(we see a Wraith sensor beam in Letters from Pegasus when 'Bob' scans the city)
- A displacer beam

Step 1) The sensor scans the area in the beam for life signs

2) If life signs are detected the sensor determines the target's exact location and initialises the displacer beam

3) The displacer beam then interdimensionally displaces the target (like a 'partial hyperspace') into a dimensional holding zone. The subject is held temporarily in timeless stasis, in another dimension, for transit.

4) When the Wraith wants a snack, the subject is displaced back out of the holding dimension into real space

With the holding zone being an artificially created subspace made using ZPM crystal technology.

I suppose it could be possible. I always thought that it simply stored the sub-atomic makeup of each individual by means of quantum data storage into the crystals themselves. On the show, it has been more or less explained that the quantum imprinting process leaves a pattern that is permanent, until a new quantum imprinting process erases it, and stores a new pattern

it would take some impressively complex technology to make such data crystals though.

In 48 Hours, McKay says that the unstable wormhole wipes the crystals clean. Maybe the energy leaks into the subspace in the crystals and 'washes out' whatever was in there?

Essentially, it could be possible to be left in storage for hundreds of thousands of years, and then suddenly be recreated exactly as you were when you stepped through the event-horizon of the stargate. Talk about the ultimate means of stasis. Far superior to the Ancients Stasis technology, because you won't have aged a single second. Of course, on a much deeper level, it brings up questions of life and death and the beyond. Would such a person be dead? If so, would then recreating their bodies, mean pulling their souls from some sort of afterlife? I don't know. Perhaps. I suppose, if one were to take the Membari (Babylon 5) view on it, no one is really a solitary soul beyond this physical life. Instead we are all projections of a greater truth and reality, like the pattern variations on the wall by means of a candle projecting its light. Who knows?

Yeah, in 38 minutes (Atlantis) they put Sheppard into the event horizon to keep him in stasis when he is in urgent need of medical help.